Power conditioners

[smoothtalker]

guys. I'm currently looking for a power filter for my audio amplifier at home. Power products in the head-fi community is really sketchy. tons of snake oils. I'm not really a believer of expensive power cables and stuff although i do seem to hear some difference.

I'm not a EE guy so i'm thinking can someone analyse the furman PCB design and provide some opinions? It's not that i'm having issues with my audio but i do hear pop and clicks when an appliance adjacent is being power on. Does a power conditional resolve that issue? thanks!

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=AC-210AE

[And!]

VFI (double conversion UPS) with sine output will be cheaper and more effective than voodoo-audio based on snake oil audiophile power conditioner...

[walshms]

I'm not a EE guy so i'm thinking can someone analyse the furman PCB design and provide some opinions? It's not that i'm having issues with my audio but i do hear pop and clicks when an appliance adjacent is being power on. Does a power conditional resolve that issue? thanks!

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=AC-210AE

This doesn't seem like it's going to be helpful.  Not because it's snake oil, but because it probably won't address your issue.

They claim this is a transient surge suppressor, and it certainly looks like one, with a bit of inductive and capacitive smoothing, and a voltage clamp.  It won't help with sags, though, and that's more likely to be your issue.

[madshaman]

Wouldn't sags more likely originate from the amp's power supply circuirty?

[walshms]

Wouldn't sags more likely originate from the amp's power supply circuirty?

On large amplitude swings, yes.  But the OP talked about pops when switching adjacent appliances/circuits on.

[walshms]

VFI (double conversion UPS) with sine output will be cheaper and more effective than voodoo-audio based on snake oil audiophile power conditioner...

You're not serious, right?  An online (double-conversion) UPS is extremely costly, especially for an audio system.  It's like using a sledgehammer to drive a pin.

[smoothtalker]

Anyone knows of any real power conditional that improves the AC mains?

I look at monster, furman, etc, their power products seem to be just surge protector and does nothing much to improving AC power quality.

Those isolation transformer as they claim are expensive! (Also have no idea what they do to the mains) it's Crazy thousands of dollars

[Phaedrus]

You can do a fair bit to quell transients and such using a mix of X caps, Y caps, common and differential mode chokes, and MOVs. Won't help against long-term sags or surges though. It's basically a passive line conditioner sans the expensive isolation transformer. Considering a decent audio amp should have it's own isolated power supply anyway, I don't think you really need it.

[NiHaoMike]

VFI (double conversion UPS) with sine output will be cheaper and more effective than voodoo-audio based on snake oil audiophile power conditioner...

You're not serious, right?  An online (double-conversion) UPS is extremely costly, especially for an audio system.  It's like using a sledgehammer to drive a pin.

You can often find a used one (bad batteries) for cheap or even free. With luck, it might even work as a line conditioner with no batteries connected.

If the amp is any good, there's going to be a fair amount of filtering on the mains input. Most likely the problem is low level wiring picking up the EMI. A modern amp is going to have optical input, which is your best bet at fixing EMI issues.

I saw a teardown of a whole house  "power conditioning unit" and it's nothing more than a pair of motor run caps and MOVs, with each set going from each hot to neutral. Motor run caps are very cheap from an HVAC supply store and can be worth a try. (I suggest a 10uF to start with. The 370V units are good for 120V line and the 440V good for 240V line.)

[nctnico]

'Plops' originating from equipment being switched on sounds more like interference coupling into the audio wiring to me. Maybe try to make the wires as short as possible. Clamp-on ferrites may also help. Equipment has proper mains filtering nowadays in order to pass EMC testing.

[IanJ]

Look up CVT Constant Voltage Transformers as a possible element to cleaning up and regulating mains AC. They are used offshore a lot to clean up noisy, fluctuating AC supply's due to local heavy SCR switching etc.

Just a thought.

Ian.

[walshms]

'Plops' originating from equipment being switched on sounds more like interference coupling into the audio wiring to me. Maybe try to make the wires as short as possible. Clamp-on ferrites may also help. Equipment has proper mains filtering nowadays in order to pass EMC testing.

Yes, this is certainly possible too; easy enough to eliminate, though, by separating the wiring a sufficient distance.

[macboy]

Buy an exercise bike, attach a dynamo and peddle at exactly 50Hz.

I know you are joking but you are not far off. In some cases where isolated very pure sine power is needed, they use a motor with precision speed controller, a big flywheel, and a generator (or dynamo if you prefer). The flywheel provides excellent rejection of high-frequency junk on the mains!

[smoothtalker]

Look up CVT Constant Voltage Transformers as a possible element to cleaning up and regulating mains AC. They are used offshore a lot to clean up noisy, fluctuating AC supply's due to local heavy SCR switching etc.

Just a thought.

Ian.

Ah.. A constant voltage generator seems like the best solution instead of fancy power conditioner. But they do sound expensive

Buy an exercise bike, attach a dynamo and peddle at exactly 50Hz.

Hahaha I like that proposal.

[G7PSK]

This is what I use on my Hi-Fi to stop noise from my computer's and powerline adapters.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surge-suppressor-units/0239472/

A bit expensive for what it is but as it fell out of the back door of sellafield before I inherited it.

[smoothtalker]

This is what I use on my Hi-Fi to stop noise from my computer's and powerline adapters.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surge-suppressor-units/0239472/

A bit expensive for what it is but as it fell out of the back door of sellafield before I inherited it.

These "surge" devices always make me paranoid. They seem to be just some MOV and fuses. I'm using a UK plug and its already fused at the outlet. Double fused at my power strip. Triple fused at my audio device. I had enough of fuses. Hahaha

I'm hoping to find something that improve AC mains. Like voltage stabilizer. But all of them seems really expensive. Furman has some.

May I know what's the difference between asymmetrical and symmetrical attenuation?? I saw it in the data sheet

[Towger]

A bit expensive for what it is but as it fell out of the back door of sellafield before I inherited it.

Did it come with the 'glow in the dark' feature?

[rsjsouza]

In Brazil several "voltage stabilizers" were commonplace with the PC boom in the 90's - most of them were really terrible and did not react quickly enough to prevent a major instability in the end equipment.
However, over the years I used a few from APC and tend to trust their products. Several are here.

[G7PSK]

This is what I use on my Hi-Fi to stop noise from my computer's and powerline adapters.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surge-suppressor-units/0239472/

A bit expensive for what it is but as it fell out of the back door of sellafield before I inherited it.

These "surge" devices always make me paranoid. They seem to be just some MOV and fuses. I'm using a UK plug and its already fused at the outlet. Double fused at my power strip. Triple fused at my audio device. I had enough of fuses. Hahaha

I'm hoping to find something that improve AC mains. Like voltage stabilizer. But all of them seems really expensive. Furman has some.

May I know what's the difference between asymmetrical and symmetrical attenuation?? I saw it in the data sheet

This one actually has a decent filter network inside it. I will try to get it apart and take some photo's.

[smoothtalker]

This is what I use on my Hi-Fi to stop noise from my computer's and powerline adapters.

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/surge-suppressor-units/0239472/

A bit expensive for what it is but as it fell out of the back door of sellafield before I inherited it.

These "surge" devices always make me paranoid. They seem to be just some MOV and fuses. I'm using a UK plug and its already fused at the outlet. Double fused at my power strip. Triple fused at my audio device. I had enough of fuses. Hahaha

I'm hoping to find something that improve AC mains. Like voltage stabilizer. But all of them seems really expensive. Furman has some.

May I know what's the difference between asymmetrical and symmetrical attenuation?? I saw it in the data sheet

This one actually has a decent filter network inside it. I will try to get it apart and take some photo's.

Awesome! showdown against furman AC-210AE in my first post. AC-210AE is relatively inexpensive as compared to higher end Furman and PS Audio

[And!]

VFI (double conversion UPS) with sine output will be cheaper and more effective than voodoo-audio based on snake oil audiophile power conditioner...

You're not serious, right?  An online (double-conversion) UPS is extremely costly, especially for an audio system.  It's like using a sledgehammer to drive a pin.

Double conversion UPS will be surprisingly cheap compared to the voodoo-audio stuff...
You will get a sine wave with frequency and the shape independent of the input voltage quality.
If you want to continue this madness,  an isolation transformer can be used on output of VFI UPS...

[NiHaoMike]

'Plops' originating from equipment being switched on sounds more like interference coupling into the audio wiring to me. Maybe try to make the wires as short as possible. Clamp-on ferrites may also help. Equipment has proper mains filtering nowadays in order to pass EMC testing.

If the source is digital, use an optical connection.

[smoothtalker]

'Plops' originating from equipment being switched on sounds more like interference coupling into the audio wiring to me. Maybe try to make the wires as short as possible. Clamp-on ferrites may also help. Equipment has proper mains filtering nowadays in order to pass EMC testing.

If the source is digital, use an optical connection.

My cables are all pretty short. longest is a 3m power cable to my power strip, follow by a 2m power cable to my dac/amp . both are Belden 19364 shielded power cables

hmmm.. i not sure what is optical disadvantages. I've not research on that! but I'm using a laptop to my USB DAC with wasapi.