Open-T12-Soldering-Station released

[wasyoungonce]

Many thanks...doing PCB #2 all going well just about to fit display.   Last one I took off the SIL black spreaders so I could get tighter bends but it because a real battle to get the display to line up.

I think I'll take the Display SIL off and use single core wire that will allow bending and double sided take.  Oh, I had to trim off the front of the Display SIL (poking thru) last time as they sit to proud and interfere with the front clear screen.   So going to single core will help here.

The displays on my Quicko are connected by flex and double sided tape.   But that's manufacturers.   They take fastest route.   

All going well cal was "SPOT ON"!.   I got confused with "SLP" and "STDBY".....I thought for some stupid reason they were opposite operations.   Once I figured its PEBKAC...finally set it all

Jeez....its so nice the quick heat and STDBY and SLP

I do notice Handle thermistor temp goes up quite a bit with use and cools when not.  I'll have to read the CFW to see if cal temp offset is according to this thermistor or not.

Cory, Many thanks for patience and help.

cheers

[clytle374]

Good deal, let me know what you come up with. 

The fast heat is great.  I do a lot of intermittent soldering and always hated to wait for the iron, or let i burn up for hours while I was troubleshooting or something.

The handle will warm up some.  It's why the NTC is needed there to compensate for the thermocouple cold junction.  You might need to diagnose what NTC you have.  I should have sent you a known one to put in your handle. How much is "up a little"?
Thanks
Cory 

[wasyoungonce]

Mmmm cannot say I thought I saw around 39C+....i was watching it come down.  I'll have to watch more closely though cal went easily.  I'll measure thermistor resistance and post away.   I can use hot air gun and thermocouple on meter etc.  I'll post these.

This build I used single core wire for the display connectors.   It allows me some wriggle after setting it all aligned, to fix any slight alignment issue after fixing.   It was also very much easier to align.

[clytle374]

Mmmm cannot say I thought I saw around 39C+....i was watching it come down.  I'll have to watch more closely though cal went easily.  I'll measure thermistor resistance and post away.   I can use hot air gun and thermocouple on meter etc.  I'll post these.

This build I used single core wire for the display connectors.   It allows me some wriggle after setting it all aligned, to fix any slight alignment issue after fixing.   It was also very much easier to align.

39C is unlikely hot. 

That is a better display setup, Good!

[wasyoungonce]

Ok Testing thermistor in handle and mind you this is only one.
0C            ~ 30K
19.8-20C ~ 12.2K
30C         ~ 8.2K
40C         ~ 5.2K
50C         ~ 3.1K
60C         ~ 1K

Heat gun, thermocouple, old temp probe meter on ohms (inside disconnected iron pins), heat gun freeze spray...as dodgy as

2nd unit ran fine cal T4 tip, was perfect result!   Again needed to turn on NTC in menu..It was complaining till i did,  All other menu settings played with except PIC and NTC stuff.   Runs very well

I do like boost on wake but it does overshoot temp and settles in around 5 seconds

[clytle374]

I don't know the NTC stuff off the top of my head.  If you have a number in the upper right corner, it's reading it. 

Did the display agree with the conditions you set?

I found that my tips would give 100% and heat up just as well as boost.  If boost is overshooting turn down the boost time in the menu. 

Don't forget to set up your tips in the tip library so each one is calibrated properly.

[DavidAlfa]

Shoudn't complain when turning the NTC off, will use the internal STM32 sensor when doing so, won't be as precise but should work.

According to your measurements, beta is about 4350, a common value, so you might want to change that in the settings.

https://www.ametherm.com/thermistor/ntc-thermistor-beta

[clytle374]

Shoudn't complain when turning the NTC off, will use the internal STM32 sensor when doing so, won't be as precise but should work.

Thanks!
I guess that leaves 3 options to choose from.  The NTC on the board, one on the handle, or the STM32 internal.  But he was getting a reading when the handle was plugged in, but not when unplugged. 

[DavidAlfa]

When it does so it's because you're setting the external NTC, which gets disconnected when removing the handle, it goes to 99.9°C to indicate that, will come back to normal when everything is properly connected.
Setting it to auto will do the same thing, but fallback to the internal sensor if the NTC is not detected when inserting the handle back, instead showing NTC error.

Edit:
Sorry, I messed up, I had forgot how it worked!

NTC ON: Tries the external NTC, fallbacks to internal stm32 sensor if not detected.
NTC OFF: Always uses internal stm32 sensor.
NTC Detect option: Same as NTC ON, but allows to use two NTC values, for example different handles using 10K and 100K NTCs, tries to guess which one is being used, will also fallback to internal stm32 sensor if none is giving reasonable temperatures.
This is only useful for very different NTCs, like 10K and 100K, will probably fail to properly detect the correct one if they're similar (Like 10 and 15K)

There isn't such switch to toggle between handle and pcb NTC (Unless you did so in the pcb), only the stm32 internal sensor and the external NTC, which you may place anywhere, but the best is in the handle as this is where the cold junction happens.

[clytle374]

There's no such switch to toggle between handle and pcb NTC, theres just stm32 internal sensor and external NTC you may place anywhere.

Thanks, I see.
I get that part but the board has jumpers to select the input from a NTC on the board or the handle, removing both would be neither.  Guess adding that one to the board was kinda a waste of time.

[wasyoungonce]

Shoudn't complain when turning the NTC off, will use the internal STM32 sensor when doing so, won't be as precise but should work.

According to your measurements, beta is about 4350, a common value, so you might want to change that in the settings.

https://www.ametherm.com/thermistor/ntc-thermistor-beta

Many thanks David....looks to be beta around 4300.  I might try a better set-up and do a few handles.   I guess someone knows the quicko thermistor MRN?   That'll make it easier

Many many thanks to both of you

[wasyoungonce]

Shoudn't complain when turning the NTC off, will use the internal STM32 sensor when doing so, won't be as precise but should work.

According to your measurements, beta is about 4350, a common value, so you might want to change that in the settings.

https://www.ametherm.com/thermistor/ntc-thermistor-beta

Excellent.  I might test a couple of thermistors but some one must know the thermistor mrn....that would be easier

My guess they are all similar but you never know  Bata turns out to be 4300!

Many thanks to you both.   Yes I saved tip cal in library

cheers

edit; double post....a matrix glitch?

edit: edit: might be wise to put in my own known thermistor and a proper shake sensor not the mercury tile ball! I'll go re-read the CFW thread on this but if anyone knows Thermistors and shake sensors used???

MF58B3940 thermistor (10k) SW-200D shake sw.

[DavidAlfa]

Mercury switches work so much better than ball sensors, whose contacts will eventually oxidize and fail.
The default beta of 3950 isn't that far from 4300, I don't think it'll make any real-life difference else than 1-3ºC.

Think, you're holding a plastic piece, so the internal are pretty much isolated, and there're metal parts everywhere that will conduct the heat from the tip.
Plus,your had will warm the handle to 30-something ºC , reducing the already low thermal conductivity of the plastic.
In the end, the heat has nowhere to go else than through handle wire, and a bit through the plastic.
So yeah, the handle internals can reach 40ºC very easily, if not more.

[clytle374]

When it does so it's because you're setting the external NTC, which gets disconnected when removing the handle, it goes to 99.9°C to indicate that, will come back to normal when everything is properly connected.
Setting it to auto will do the same thing, but fallback to the internal sensor if the NTC is not detected when inserting the handle back, instead showing NTC error.

Edit:
Sorry, I messed up, I had forgot how it worked!

NTC ON: Tries the external NTC, fallbacks to internal stm32 sensor if not detected.
NTC OFF: Always uses internal stm32 sensor.
NTC Detect option: Same as NTC ON, but allows to use two NTC values, for example different handles using 10K and 100K NTCs, tries to guess which one is being used, will also fallback to internal stm32 sensor if none is giving reasonable temperatures.
This is only useful for very different NTCs, like 10K and 100K, will probably fail to properly detect the correct one if they're similar (Like 10 and 15K)

There isn't such switch to toggle between handle and pcb NTC (Unless you did so in the pcb), only the stm32 internal sensor and the external NTC, which you may place anywhere, but the best is in the handle as this is where the cold junction happens.

Thanks for the clarification on the NTC settings in the software.  It was on my list of things to look up someday..

I put 2 jumpers on the PCB.  One has the NTC going to the handle.  The other jumper goes to a 10K 3950 NTC on the board.  In the handle is better, but I was trying for max compatibility with existing stuff.  Neither one of my newer KSGERs had a NTC in the handle, but had them on the board. 

[DavidAlfa]

I noticed there was some missing details about the NTC operation in the manual, updated.

[wasyoungonce]

Thanks David for the NTC update.  I ordered 10k 1% NTCs and are staying with the mercury sw’s FTM.  I want the irons to match Ksger     There is so much variation between mfgrs!  I guess whatever part they get a deal on.

I do like the Quicko tips.  But will get the proper OEM drag tips.  They last and work well on my old 936!  The 3mm drag tip is the “cats pyjamas” !

[wasyoungonce]

Cory...just looking at encoder.  I reckon you can change this to: PEC11R-4215K-S0024  (15mm length Knurled (Slotted) shaft) JLPCB MRN: C7275025 of course...no stk

I think you used the PEC11R-4220K-S0024 ?  Is that right?   Anyway just saying the shaft is quite long and could be shorter by 5mm.   I note the Quicko units use a 15mm Knurled shaft.   Which means I need to cut 5mm off the current shafts, which is nearly the "complete Knurled or slotted" length, to get the knob closer to the face plate.   

The Quicko, I noted used used a longer Knob 15mm with a larger 15mm Skirt.  Which covers the shaft and nut.  see images

You may be able to get longer shaft Knobs with skirts from aliexpress.   I looked JLPCB but they are lacking here.  SO some on aliexpress, maybe a 15mm length or 20mmm length Knob, with Skirt is a better option. 

If I was to cut the encoder slotted shaft I'd almost have no slots to grab the knob onto.   If you stayed with the same encoder shaft length a 20mm knob with a skirt might be better option.   Just sayin.  Her's me...you thru these in for free and I'm whinging!   Sheee'sz!

Here's some aliexpress knobs I'm sure there are cheaper (sorry for the long links)..but a 17mm or 20mm Knob would suit better to the current encoder shaft (20mm length i think) but if you use a shorter encoder shaft then a 15mm Knob is ok)  I noted they put some small wadding inside the Quicko knob (17mm length for a 15mm encoder shaft) to get it to fit a little proud of the face plate.   This is better than cutting the encoder shaft or a Knob too short

I also like the "Skirt" knobs as they hide the nut (see the black Quicko knob).   Just some musings on the parts.  JLCPCB doesnt appears to have "knobs".

I wish I purchased a 3rd "open source PCB" now........to convert my other unit.  FWIW I know cost is important.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005006873809876.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.0.0.5b6f2fa3FNGgMs&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21AUD%21AU%20%244.65%21AU%20%243.95%21%21%213.00%212.55%21%402101c5df17230825167321893e64c0%2112000038587940428%21sh%21AU%211851760988%21X&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005005108135307.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.0.0.5b6f2fa3FNGgMs&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21AUD%21AU%20%242.79%21AU%20%242.37%21%21%211.80%211.53%21%402101c5df17230825512252349e64c0%2112000031688636543%21sh%21AU%211851760988%21X&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005007235116315.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.0.0.506e531bYbZIfY&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21AUD%21AU%20%249.42%21AU%20%247.82%21%21%2143.60%2136.19%21%402101e9ec17230841603915688e543c%2112000039903933758%21sh%21AU%211851760988%21X&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005005565925855.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.0.0.5b6f2fa3FNGgMs&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21AUD%21AU%20%244.96%21AU%20%244.22%21%21%213.20%212.72%21%402101c5df17230824764851004e64c0%2112000033575497960%21sh%21AU%211851760988%21X&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa#nav-specification

[wasyoungonce]

This explains it better than words.   So maybe a shorter encoder shaft "15mm" and 17mm Knob or a 20mm knob??

I know cost matters but you may find some cheapies

[clytle374]

Yes that is the encoder I used.  All the non surface mount parts came from digikey, as did the op amp.  Do you know the bournes part number for the shorter encoder?   Sadly I already have several of them.  I might just cut one to a better length and see if the knob grabs it okay.  The encoder is one of the most expensive parts.  Right after the STM32, display, and opamp.  The opamp wasn't installed by the board house since the opamp I used on the prototype was like 5 x the price with them.  I might see if I can return the 20 I didn't open to digikey and find a shorter one.  I'll look into options as I wasn't really happy with the way that part turned out.  One benefit is that I can grab the knob with the iron in my hand easily with that much clearance.

The knobs I got were about the same costs.  Costs + shipping costs made the decision.   

No offense taken.  In the unlikely event there is a second run of these I'll fine tune it more.  I know that Schottky diode will work just fine and doesn't hurt anything but I"ll add that to the list of things I regret too.  LOL 

USPS screwed me on the shipping.  I canceled the first order that I didn't address correctly and they are now denying the refund saying I shipped it, but tracking doesn't show it going anywhere.  I replied that I didn't think I sent the order twice, but if they say I did I need the insurance for the package as they lost it. lol, only the government can mess up like this.

So I might have a label to send you another one.  You're the only purchaser other than the power tool adapters units I've sold to couple friends.  I have soldering equipment covered for life 

[clytle374]

Is that last picture before or after you cut the shaft?  It looks way better.

[wasyoungonce]

no just with the quicko knob fitted....its slightly longer.   If I cut 3mm off it might hide the nut.  But I won't rush into this

[clytle374]

no just with the quicko knob fitted....its slightly longer.   If I cut 3mm off it might hide the nut.  But I won't rush into this

That's the 15 x 15mm knob with a skirt yoou pictured earlier?

Thank you for the trial and error reports on what works well. 

EDIT: I'm taking a much needed break and working on some old tube ham gear for a while. 

[wasyoungonce]

Yes do so.  Things like this are draining and a good reset will see ya right.  But IMHO you are on the right track just need “i’s” dotted and “t’ees” crossed

Well done thanks for your help and Open Source PCBs.  Taught me a lot I was probing around the PCBs and trying to get a handle on NTC feedback correction.  Now I know Thankd to all especially you and David

Edit.  The Quicko knob was 17mm length not 15mm. Cheers
Edit 2: I've ordered a few different sized (length) knobs with skirts (called "Straw hat type"... differing hat diameter)......I don't want to cut the shaft ....vibration might degrade contacts.   So wait till I get the knobs and post some photos.   The Encoder isn't really too long its just getting an acceptable cheap Knob to hide the Nut.    Unfortunately as the knob length increases  the price goes up.   So a shorter shaft encoder may be cheaper.

If it matters that is.

[clytle374]

Let me know how the knob you get works out.  Just to clarify, I wasn't saying I wouldn't be here for questions, just not doing any redesigns for a bit

[wasyoungonce]

There is never anything I designed I said “that’s perfect”.  There is always something you look at and wish you had done it slightly different.  But when selling even low cost open source every cent is important. Have a rest.  It’ll do ya head in.

Cheers

Many thanks. I’ll post back with my knob images of knobs