Soviet era, gorgeous IN-34-1 bargraph display.

[schmitt trigger]

Browsing thru Ebay, I've noticed lately some gorgeous, Soviet-era, gas discharge bargraph displays.

Now, I am familiar with the more ubiquitous analog gas discharge bargraphs, like the IN-9 or IN-13, whereas a cathode current (more or less) linearly controls the length of the bargraph which lights up. But these bargraphs are digitally controlled, and therefore capable of higher precision. With some of them sporting 203 discrete elements, a very high precision bargraph display can be achieved. These come in different formats, but they all share a high voltage gas discharge, and sequential addressing of the elements.

Unfortunately, the information available on the web is scarce and sometimes with errors. See some sample "instructions" and datasheets. There are no actual circuit examples which I can find.

To make posts more readable, and avoid the dreaded TL;DR syndrome, I'll leave it right here. But from my studies I've been able to discern some basic operation modes from the scant information available.

[schmitt trigger]

For instance, the following paragraph:

-The work principle is similar to a Dekatron: Dekatrons operate similarly to stepper motors, where  a control cathode is pulsed, then the next adjacent control cathode, then the first one released, followed by the second one being released. Depending on which of the pair of control cathodes was energized first, that will be the duration of the count.

So I believe that the scanning of individual elements would follow a similar pattern, but then I fail to understand how the cathode that has been counted to remains lit up, if the pulse is released like a Dekatron would....or perhaps that pin remains activated? I don't know.

I have changed a previous attachment....in one of the the datasheets there are duplicate opins with an identical description "Cathode of third group" and thus I had added a little note on the bottom.....but after studying a little bit more, I am not sure and thus removed the note and left it with the original wording

[schmitt trigger]

Something that I believe have understood correctly, is the operation of the auxiliary anode and cathode. In linear bargraphs like the IN-13, the auxiliary cathode helps (as I understand it) to ensure that the main column is completely unlit in the absence of a signal or data. This assumption appears to be validated by the fact of the auxiliary cathode current being quite small.

What I do not get is the paragraph ""..designed to display information in the form of a linear scale of 103 elements with the release of each 5th element" Which is the 5th element?

So far, this is what I've got. Brainstorming ideas or hints are welcome.

[iMo]

There is 103 elements in total, with every 5th "displaced for better reading".

[schmitt trigger]

Imo,
now that you mention it, it is so obvious..... I feel 

Following your description, would this perhaps mean that after the 5th element is reached, it will jump to the first element of the next stage? And one has to start the sequence enebling the first element?

Before anyone asks: No, I still haven't purchased one of these yet. They are a bit pricey, and won't take the plunge purchasing one unless I feel that I halfway understand its basic operation.

[FenTiger]

http://users.rcn.com/ted.johnson/ssbar.htm suggests this:

These device use "glow transfer" to light two columns of 100 bars using two anodes and five cathodes (plus one reset cathode).  The main idea is that a cathode will light faster than otherwise if a neighboring cathode is light, as the nearby neon is already ionized.  The bargraph display has a keep-alive anode and cathode in the center (the faceplate hide it), a reset cathode, and twenty stacks of the five cathodes in sequence.  To display a bar, you first light the reset cathode (which lights quickly because of the keep-alive ionization), then cathode 1, then 2, ... then 5, then 1, and so on, until you've run through all of the bars that should be lit.  The cathodes will light in sequence up the bargraph because the previous cathode was lit, and then the anode-cathode voltage drops to the sustaining voltage preventing other instances of the cathode from lighting.

[schmitt trigger]

FenTiger, thanks for the link.............this cleared many doubts 

I believe that I've enough of a head start, such that I can order some devices and have a moderate chance of success.
 
For the benefit of anyone with a passing interest on these devices, I will from time to time, report on my findings.

For starters, I will focus on the IN-34-1, as it is moderately priced and appears to have the most documentation online. I color coded the different cathodes with the function description. This helps to visualize their function and clear some translation mistakes. For instance, there were a pair of "Cathode of the third group", but the magenta-colored one is actually the first cathode.

I also include the device's pinout location.

I am still puzzled by the sentence ".....with the release of the 5th element". I am not sure they are referring to the 5th visual element as indicated by Imo, but perhaps it means the release of the auxiliary cathode.
(Cathode groups 1 thru 3, reset cathode, and auxilliary cathode making the 5th cathode element).

I also believe that I've figured out the overload cathode function, which would should really mean "overflow" cathode.

Sigh...it is a little hard to figure out things without the benefit of a timing diagram.

[LaserSteve]

Google  Burroughs  and SELF SCAN  or BAR GRAPH and or Panaplex...
And ye shall be rewarded..

See attached for a start, Soviet Devices will be similar or improved.

1976 Technology, and beautifully simple.


Steve

[LaserSteve]

See also this and related pages..

http://ferretronix.com/tech/nixie/pdf/vishay_dale_bar_graph_designers_guide.pdf

And this:

http://dotdisplay.blogspot.com/2017/08/igt1-203-self-scan-bar-graph-display.html

Steve

[schmitt trigger]

Thank you Steve, the pieces of the puzzle are finally falling together!. 

In addition to the valuable info you have provided, I found an app note from a Japanese supplier with a timing diagram (yesssss!), which clearly illustrates the interface operation chapter of the Vishay-Dale datasheet you provided. See page 2 of my attached file.
The Vishay datasheet also includes a timing diagram, but it is cluttered and not immediately understandable.
The Vishay datasheet also includes a discrete logic driving circuitry, nowadays, any simple microcontroller can do the job.

With all the information, however scattered, I am now confident that I can successfully tackle this project, and not be left in the dark (He. he! see what I just did here?) with more electronic junk.
 
Thanks everyone who helped me gather the info. This definitively will be my next project....after I complete the one I am working on.
Discipline! I have to finish the previous one first, otherwise I will end up with a pair of unfinished projects.  It is an addiction guys, you already know the feeling. 

[LaserSteve]

I just ordered one of the big Russian tubes. I do sound for my place of worship and the idea of having one of those instead of the short bar on the mixer LCD is intriguing. Especially for vocals.  The Mitani timing diagram brought the "how" into short focus.  I've used lab lasers that have the Borroughs analog bars in their remote control heads,  I'll see if I have a schematic.

Good Luck,

Steve

[schmitt trigger]

Steve;
as a matter of fact, the website where I found the Mitani datasheet was one dedicated to professional audio.

Posters there commented that with 100 or even 200 elements, these tubes would make exceptional VU meters.

Which tube number did you order?

[Datman]

Keep in mind that it is linear, i think. For a VUmeter you need, instead, a custom logarithmic scale, using complex electronics.
You can do the same without complex electronics (and typical log amps thermal instability) using Arduino, a 16-bit converter and a LCD or OLED graphic display
https://www.google.com/search?q=arduino+graphic+vu+meter
https://www.google.com/search?q=arduino+graphic+display+bargraph+vu+meter

[xavier60]

This application note has designs for filtered rectifiers that replicate the proper meter ballistics for VU or PPM.
I used a PIC micro to do the log conversion using a lookup table and also multiplex LED bar graph displays.
https://datasheet.octopart.com/LM3916N-1/NOPB-National-Semiconductor-datasheet-7551873.pdf
 

[001]

Hi

You can also use analog fluorescent bargraph like EMM81
It is only sort of magic eye tube
It drivered directly from grid. No additional elements requiered

 

[schmitt trigger]

hmmmmmmmmmmm...........
Googling EMM81 only returns results for the common magic eye EM81

[001]

hmmmmmmmmmmm...........
Googling EMM81 only returns results for the common magic eye EM81

try russian analog http://tvr.vejas.lt/uploads/Zinynas/Lempos/Indikatoriai.pdf

[edavid]

hmmmmmmmmmmm...........
Googling EMM81 only returns results for the common magic eye EM81

It looks like the correct part number is EMM801.
I think the EM800 is similar.

Neither one can really compare to that beautiful IN-33.