Arduino venting

[ralphd]

Although I usually code with vim and avr-gcc from the shell, I decided to modify the ArduinoISP code instead of writing an avrisp compatible programmer from scratch.  I found out that despite the updated SPI code in 1.6, there's still some dumb stuff going on.
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

Rhetorical question: does Marchese Banzi know what a code review is?

[ralphd]

Theory: Banzi is a lousy programmer, and his delusions of grandeur keep him from realizing it.  Therefore some of the people he hires are just as clueless (and by chance a few are clueful).  They all have the ability to modify the Arduino core, and the one or two clueful people there are too "polite" to complain about working with morons...

[legacy]

no doubt he is a crap, he is also a complete ignorant about "debugging", when he launched Arduino/Zero, he was really thinking that (and he said that) - "to debug something you just need the serial print" - oh my goodness 

also, he appeared on a few RS videos arguing - "with Arduino, you can build interfaces for spaceships" - Really, why so serious, buddy ? 

[george graves]

So who wants to write a better IDE/core?  Any takers?

[shebu18]

Quote from: george graves on Today at 21:29:37

So who wants to write a better IDE/core?  Any takers?



>

Why that? There are enough alternatives to the arduino IDE

[tszaboo]

I stopped looking at Arduino libraries, when I realized they contain:

#include whatever.c


  <- this smiley 20 times.

[ralphd]

So who wants to write a better IDE/core?  Any takers?

Already been done, but Banzi's peeps are too clueless to look for something better.
www.wiring.org.co/
uecide.org/
https://github.com/mikaelpatel/Cosa

You can also use the atmel avr toolchain (i.e. avr-gcc & avr-libc) with Eclipse.

[ralphd]

no doubt he is a crap, he is also a complete ignorant about "debugging", when he launched Arduino/Zero, he was really thinking that (and he said that) - "to debug something you just need the serial print" - oh my goodness 

also, he appeared on a few RS videos arguing - "with Arduino, you can build interfaces for spaceships" - Really, why so serious, buddy ? 

And unfortunately most humans naively associate authority and fame with intelligence and ability.  i.e. He's the head of Arduino, so he's an expert on embedded computing.
But anyone who has seen how many people get their medical advice from Jenny McCarthy won't be surprised by Banzi's pack of lemmings.
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/even_c3po_and_r2d2_think_jenny_mccarthy_is_an_idiot

[ralphd]

I stopped looking at Arduino libraries, when I realized they contain:

#include whatever.c


  <- this smiley 20 times.

While I suspect when you see that in the Arduino libraries someone didn't realize what they are doing.
However I, reluctantly, have done that as a way to have pin definitions evaluated at compile time.
i.e. in main.c:

Code: [Select]

#define LCD_EN 2
#define LCD_RS 3
...
#define LCD_PORT PORTB

#include "lcd.c"

void main(void)
{
   lcd_print('x');
}

My preferred solution is to define configuration information like LCD_PORT in a Makefile, but when I did the #include "lcd.c" hack I didn't have a good build framework.  Now I use DMBS.
https://github.com/nerdralph/dmbs

[mikerj]

Although I usually code with vim and avr-gcc from the shell, I decided to modify the ArduinoISP code instead of writing an avrisp compatible programmer from scratch.  I found out that despite the updated SPI code in 1.6, there's still some dumb stuff going on.
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

Rhetorical question: does Marchese Banzi know what a code review is?

Irrespective of the quality of the Arduino code (and I agree it's not great), your attitude stinks.  If you want the Arduino team to fix something, why do you think abusing them is either acceptable or likely to help?  It's not a professional or mature way to behave.

[ralphd]

Although I usually code with vim and avr-gcc from the shell, I decided to modify the ArduinoISP code instead of writing an avrisp compatible programmer from scratch.  I found out that despite the updated SPI code in 1.6, there's still some dumb stuff going on.
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

Rhetorical question: does Marchese Banzi know what a code review is?

Irrespective of the quality of the Arduino code (and I agree it's not great), your attitude stinks.  If you want the Arduino team to fix something, why do you think abusing them is either acceptable or likely to help?  It's not a professional or mature way to behave.

I don't care if the Arduino core stays crappy.  I pointed out a couple bugs and got a dumb and condescending response, so screw them.
The eevblog forums are not for prudes and sissies.  You'd fit in better on the Arduino forums, or even avrfreaks.

[westfw]

Quote

there's still some dumb stuff going on.
>https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

"Pins left as output mode after SPI.end()" - that's a pretty mild "bug" to elicit such a vehement reaction.  I'd even call it a "design decision."

[ralphd]

Quote

there's still some dumb stuff going on.
>https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

"Pins left as output mode after SPI.end()" - that's a pretty mild "bug" to elicit such a vehement reaction.  I'd even call it a "design decision."

The bigger bug is the SS handling.  You are a smarter coder than the Arduino folks, so I'm sure if you read the begin() code you'll see how stupid it is.
And there's the library docs that are wrong.

At least they have enough clue to admit thepins being left as output is a bug instead of pulling the 'design intent' excuse...

[legacy]

One of the problems with Banzi is that he thinks the open source is always better, but,  trying to figure out his vision of "what is open", we discover he means that he is always open with other people's source code, especially sad with the customer care (that he gets almost for free)

[Bruce Abbott]

So who wants to write a better IDE/core?  Any takers?

Don't be silly. The only 'takers' here are those who are too lazy to write their own code - then complain when free stuff doesn't do what they think it should.



 

[ralphd]

One of the problems with Banzi is that he thinks the open source is always better, but,  trying to figure out his vision of "what is open", we discover he means that he is always open with other people's source code, especially sad with the customer care (that he gets almost for free)

And most people are ignorant of the fact that the Arduino core is a copy of Wiring, which is based on MITs Processing language.
Despite Banzi's pleas to support Ardino, he hasn't shared any profits with Hernando's team or MIT.
If I were going to support anyone it would be Sparkfun, who designed and open sourced basic boards like the pro mini.  Living outside of the US, the shipping cost from Sparkfun is prohibitive.

[ralphd]

So who wants to write a better IDE/core?  Any takers?

Don't be silly. The only 'takers' here are those who are too lazy to write their own code - then complain when free stuff doesn't do what they think it should.

Yup, I'm too lazy to write my own code.  Unless you count two bootloaders written in AVR assembler, a HD44780 library written in C, a bit-bang UART written in AVR assembler, C code (and a simple circuit) for doing time-division duplexed SPI with 2 pins, the fastest available bit-bang SPI master code for the AVR (both in C and assembler), ...

[Maxlor]

I don't get this arduino bashing. It's a tool that works a lot better than one'd think for the price. But if you're surprised when it fails to fulfill your specs as soon as they get detailled, or if you think it saves you from doing your job, you're delusional. Take it for what it is, something to build quick and dirty hacks with, and it's good for that. Once you get to the point where you're reviewing their libs for bugs (and... no, it's not a bug if you "feel" it should work differently) you're probably better off doing your project in a proper, controlled fashion.

[free_electron]

is';t the name a dead giveaway ? it's pronounced hardwhino ...

[jnz]

I don't get this arduino bashing. It's a tool that works a lot better than one'd think for the price. But if you're surprised when it fails to fulfill your specs as soon as they get detailled, or if you think it saves you from doing your job, you're delusional. Take it for what it is, something to build quick and dirty hacks with, and it's good for that. Once you get to the point where you're reviewing their libs for bugs (and... no, it's not a bug if you "feel" it should work differently) you're probably better off doing your project in a proper, controlled fashion.

Seemingly true.

If you need a micro for a professional project and are using Arduino, well, that's pretty much a telltale to me that something is wrong. I never thought people were basing real designs on them until I saw one show up in a product I was looking over.  Honestly, I'm just still pissed at myself for being on PIC for so many years before moving to ARM. I see anyone using Arduino now in a production environment as making that same mistake I was (granted there is some merit with the DSP if you really utilize it, but their tools and pricing are just so terrible I'd take a slower more expensive ARM in a heartbeat). Looking over Atmel's non-ARM line, I just don't get it.

[jancumps]

Although I usually code with vim and avr-gcc from the shell, I decided to modify the ArduinoISP code instead of writing an avrisp compatible programmer from scratch.  I found out that despite the updated SPI code in 1.6, there's still some dumb stuff going on.
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

Rhetorical question: does Marchese Banzi know what a code review is?

what a poor issue you've logged there, man. Low.

[c4757p]

@facchinim You're only half right. SS does NOT have to be configured as output. One reasonable option is to enable the pullup, which the first part of SPI.begin() does... before setting it to OUTPUT.

From looking at your github account it seems you actually work for Arduino. I guess Marchese Banzi hires people with no more clue about writing good software than he does, hence the arduino core being the piece of shit it is...
... and I'm the fool for thinking I could help make it better...

So, is marching right into a bug report insisting the person responsible is an idiot and insulting the project typical behavior for you?

Does it work?

[zapta]

Although I usually code with vim and avr-gcc from the shell, I decided to modify the ArduinoISP code instead of writing an avrisp compatible programmer from scratch.  I found out that despite the updated SPI code in 1.6, there's still some dumb stuff going on.
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

Rhetorical question: does Marchese Banzi know what a code review is?

what a poor issue you've logged there, man. Low.

Yes, not nice.

"From looking at your github account it seems you actually work for Arduino. I guess Marchese Banzi hires people with no more clue about writing good software than he does, hence the arduino core being the piece of shit it is...
... and I'm the fool for thinking I could help make it better..."

[ralphd]

@facchinim You're only half right. SS does NOT have to be configured as output. One reasonable option is to enable the pullup, which the first part of SPI.begin() does... before setting it to OUTPUT.

From looking at your github account it seems you actually work for Arduino. I guess Marchese Banzi hires people with no more clue about writing good software than he does, hence the arduino core being the piece of shit it is...
... and I'm the fool for thinking I could help make it better...

So, is marching right into a bug report insisting the person responsible is an idiot and insulting the project typical behavior for you?

Does it work?

What makes you think I want the Arduino project to fix their bugs?
Does Dave care if the Batterizer fixes their product?  No.

I don't have to kiss anyone's ass.

[ralphd]

Although I usually code with vim and avr-gcc from the shell, I decided to modify the ArduinoISP code instead of writing an avrisp compatible programmer from scratch.  I found out that despite the updated SPI code in 1.6, there's still some dumb stuff going on.
https://github.com/arduino/Arduino/issues/3666

Rhetorical question: does Marchese Banzi know what a code review is?

what a poor issue you've logged there, man. Low.

Were you too lazy to read the begin() code, or are you to dumb to see the bug?