Fab houses capable of BGA and micro, buried and blind vias?

[MarkS]

I'd like to play around with BGA packages. Unfortunately, the fab houses I know of have very tight limits on BGA pitch and none of them support anything other than standard through hole vias. I realize that going this route would incur a much greater cost, but I'm not willing to even attempt a design if I cannot get it manufactured.

Are there any fab houses that can do this and in the small production runs of JLCPCB and PCBWay?

[asmi]

It depends on the pitch. I'd say 0.65 mm and up are very doable with JLCPCB process (they can do down to 0.09/0.09 mm traces, 0.15 mm drills and 0.25/0.3 mm via pads, but latter for additional fee), and they can also do via in a pad (which I recently tested and found very useful) - and even do so at NO EXTRA CHARGE for 6+ layer PCBs. You only need microvias for 0.5 mm pitch and below, or very large devices with many hundreds of balls.
You can check out a project in my signature for an example of a 4 layer board designed around JLCPCB process which contains 1 mm and 0.8 mm pitch BGAs. I've also almost completed a 10 layer design which is going to contain a rather large 484 balls BGA and use via in a pad, also intented to be manufactured by JLCPCB, and since BGA pitch is rather large 1 mm, I've managed to get it done using only 0.1/0.1 mm traces and 0.2/0.4 mm vias to save a bit of money on manufacturing - they have quite a jump between 0.2 mm drills and 0.15 mm ones, but if needs must, of course you can take a step down. I've limited myself to 0.2 mostly because I wanted to see if I can actually get it done, knowing that an option to step down the drill size is still there should I absolutely need it. That design breaks out every single ball out of 484 ones, and it also contain a large 64 bit DDR3 interface to an SODIMM socket, so I needed all the routing space I can get, but in the end it worked out beatifully.

[MarkS]

It depends on the pitch. I'd say 0.65 mm and up are very doable with JLCPCB process (they can do down to 0.09/0.09 mm traces, 0.15 mm drills and 0.25/0.3 mm via pads, but latter for additional fee), and they can also do via in a pad (which I recently tested and found very useful) - and even do so at NO EXTRA CHARGE for 6+ layer PCBs. You only need microvias for 0.5 mm pitch and below, or very large devices with many hundreds of balls.
You can check out a project in my signature for an example of a 4 layer board designed around JLCPCB process which contains 1 mm and 0.8 mm pitch BGAs. I've also almost completed a 10 layer design which is going to contain a rather large 484 balls BGA and use via in a pad, also intented to be manufactured by JLCPCB, and since BGA pitch is rather large 1 mm, I've managed to get it done using only 0.1/0.1 mm traces and 0.2/0.4 mm vias to save a bit of money on manufacturing - they have quite a jump between 0.2 mm drills and 0.15 mm ones, but if needs must, of course you can take a step down. I've limited myself to 0.2 mostly because I wanted to see if I can actually get it done, knowing that an option to step down the drill size is still there should I absolutely need it. That design breaks out every single ball out of 484 ones, and it also contain a large 64 bit DDR3 interface to an SODIMM socket, so I needed all the routing space I can get, but in the end it worked out beatifully.

Some of the BGA parts I've looked at in the past that interested me were 0.5mm pitch and below. I think they were microcontrollers or FPGAs and not very complicated chips, just only available in fine pitch. I'd like to open up my possibilities. I'd just like to have some options available to me and right now they don't exist.

[asmi]

Some of the BGA parts I've looked at in the past that interested me were 0.5mm pitch and below. I think they were microcontrollers or FPGAs and not very complicated chips, just only available in fine pitch. I'd like to open up my possibilities. I'd just like to have some options available to me and right now they don't exist.

Well, let me know if you find anything - I could use something like that as well.

[mon2]

Your specs are leading you into HDI specs. Respectively, search out pcb shops who can support HDI PCBs in low volume. We have used a few for our 0.4 and 0.35mm ball pitch designs in 4L for our WLCSP packaged devices (ICE40UL, etc.).

Will post the vendor names later but Kingford PCB was selected for one project. Their offer was around $1200 usd lower than the highest competitor. Asked them if they understood the complexity of our design and Kingford replied with 'yes, this a HDI board and we work with these constraints normally. It is not a premium service to them'. We started our business relationship with them after seeing their 40++ layer pcb in a showcase in HK made for AMD. It was at a past HK Electronic fair we attended. The board was drop dead gorgeous. Crazy to think for the same specs and qty, others demanded a large price spike. You will always pay more for HDI so do attempt to design without the need but WLCSP and BGA devices sometimes cannot avoid such layouts. That is, HDI is when you need to use laser drilled vias, blind and buried vias, resin filled and copper topped pads, thin pcb traces with thin spacing. I am the logic designer for our many projects and will need to ask our PCB designer if you require the exact specs of our past designs.

These days, we just cannot avoid HDI pcbs for our pending Gowin / Efinix / STM32 / Ambiq based layouts.

Fairly sure Jet PCB will support HDI as well but will post the others we have used once fully awake here.

Update:

1) Attached are more names of PCB shops we have dealt with in the past with HDI support in low and fair volumes (1k-2k lots).

Nicole Cai
Sr. PCB Sales Engineer
Fast Turn PCB
Tel: +86 15915743579
Skype: Nicolecai2008
Mail: nicole.ca[at]fastturnpcbs.com
Website: www.fastturnpcbs.com
We are a Reliable Multilayer PCB Provider with ISO 9001:2015
Focus on HDI Blind Via•RF & Antenna•Rigid-Flex PCB • PCB One-Stop Solution

Not tested but claim to be supporting of HDI:

I am lisa. our factory specializes in Printed Circuit Boards manufacture more than 15 years
Respond to RFQ or questions within 1 hours.
World class manufacturing facility,which is able to meet most of your challenges.
Re-engineering services to lower manufacturing cost and to correct flaws of existing designs.
Quick turn manufacturing of highly complex PCB.
High quality products,Professional services, Fast delivery.
Rigid pcb, Flexible pcb(Fpc), Rigid-flex pcb,HDI pcb
PCBA
Top professional engineering team(ensure our quality product)
Our General Capabilities:
Layer Count: 2-60 Layers
Material: FR-4, 170TG, 180Tg, Rogers, ISOLA Taconic Arlon, NELCO
Min Plated Thru Holes: 0.004" (0.10 mm)
PTH Tolerance: +/- 0.002" (0.05 mm)
Min Aspect Ratio: 20:1 (THK:DHS)
Copper: 10 oz Outer
Routing Tolerance: +/- 0.004"(0.1mm)
Min Trace/Space: 0.003"/0.003" (0.076/0.076mm)
Thickness: 0.008"/0.275"
Finish: HASL, Lead-free HASL, Hard Gold, Immersion Gold, Immersion Silver, OSP
Options: Gold Tabs, Selective Au, Carbon Ink, Peelable Mask, Micro Via, Controlled
Impedance, Score, LASER Drill, Blind Vias and Buried Vias.

    SHENZHEN TOPTECHPCB ELECTRONIC LIMITED
    Sales Department
    • Tel:   0086-755-29754520
    • E-mail: gold@toptechpcb.com
    • Web:  www.toptechpcb.com

We are constantly receiving broadcasted emails from offshore PCB vendors but recommend that you consider to request the above for quotes. Upon interest, can share PCB brokers that will farm out your HDI pcb to the best shop and support you if there are any QC issues. We have such contacts to allow us to source from Suntak and other tier 1 shops in China who frown upon low volume purchases of PCBs (ie. $500k EAU is too low of a dollar value for Suntak to work with us for PCB sourcing).

[MarkS]

It looks like PCBWay can do most of what I need! I just watched a Phil's Lab video and he showed they do HDI boards! I had no idea! The price is, of course, ridiculous, but it's good to know there's an easily available option.

[asmi]

It looks like PCBWay can do most of what I need! I just watched a Phil's Lab video and he showed they do HDI boards! I had no idea! The price is, of course, ridiculous, but it's good to know there's an easily available option.

Yeah, I knew about them, but >500 USD for a ten 10x10 cm 6 layer PCBs is kind of insane. Of course it's not US-based fab-insane, but still pretty close out there.

[stone]

Are you looking for this kind of IC substrate?

[Kean]

Are you looking for this kind of IC substrate?

What is that last photo?  Is that for bare silicon wire bonding?

[edit] Argh, I can't believe I wrote "silicone" instead of "silicon".  It really bugs me when others do that. 

[stone]

Yes

[stone]

wire bonding