HP does it again: bricking third-party ink

[madires]

HP outrages printer users with firmware update suddenly bricking third-party ink: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/03/customers-fume-as-hp-blocks-third-party-ink-from-more-of-its-printers/

 

[RoGeorge]

You were not supposed to do that! 

Joke aside, I've read printer's hardware is underpriced, sold for less than it cost to manufacture, and they hope they will recover the loss by selling you overpriced consumables.  If one only buys the printer and no extra ink, the bottom line for manufacturer will be negative, they will leak money instead of making money.

[SiliconWizard]

Yup. Has been the case for a long time now, pretty much when inkjet printers started to become popular.
So you can't blame manufacturers for trying their best to prevent you from using third-party ink, they make their profits on ink.
You might not like the concept, but keep in mind there is no way you could have gotten the printer that cheap otherwise, to begin with.

If you want to avoid that, just buy a laser printer that can be used with third-party toner without a single issue. The overall cost of ownership will even be much lower in the end, maybe not initially, but over its lifetime.

That's a bit of the same discussion as with  overall durability of new products, repairability, etc. Sure you want your stuff to be more durable and repairable, but are you ready to pay *more* for that?
Are you ready to live with products that work well for long periods of time but may not be the latest up-to-date gear?

[twospoons]

but are you ready to pay *more* for that?

I have never regretted paying more for quality. Not only does it work out cheaper in the long run, the thing itself generally works better.
I am so sick of the 'race to the bottom' engaged in by so many manufacturers.

[james_s]

It's at the point where I think there should be a law that a printer manufacture can't take steps to prevent you from using 3rd party ink, voiding the warranty if it can be demonstrated that there is a reasonable likelihood that the ink/toner used contributed to the failure being the maximum they can do. Hopefully that would invalidate that business model.

[MrMobodies]

I have a 8620 better check the firewall to confirm it doesn't have broadband access.

If the printer breaks down after the warranty, do they care? no.
So why should they care after what ink you are using.

[Ed.Kloonk]

 

[themadhippy]

I've read printer's hardware is underpriced, sold for less than it cost to manufacture, and they hope they will recover the loss by selling you overpriced consumables

AKA the razor razorblade technique,sell the razor at a loss  and the blades at a profit

[WattsThat]

I needed a new printer. Wanted color. I refuse to buy HP based on their razor and razor blades model although I’ve been happy with their laserjets. A color laser was overpriced IMO for home use.

Epson must of heard me grumbling. Stumbled over a thing called the EcoTank. Printers are ~$300. Ink arrives in bottles. The print head is forever. The color tanks are ~125 ml, the black ~250. A set of epson refill bottles are less than typical cartridges but they last a very long time. I’ve run more than 1K pages through this thing and ink levels are still at full. So far, I’m impressed. It’s what ink jets should have been from the start.

If this Epson holds up, HP will be in big trouble in this market space. They deserve to get clobbered, big time.

[james_s]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

[coromonadalix]

officejet pro 7740 paid over 450 CAD    shitty head,  head clog once in a while with original stuff

tried some older FW with non genuine ink,  still clog once in a while   

pffffff

but i need 11x18 flat bed .........  software suck big time

[DimitriP]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used. So once you create your account with HP and activate the printer, you are ready to print. It's really simple.

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

[5U4GB]

If you want to avoid that, just buy a laser printer that can be used with third-party toner without a single issue. The overall cost of ownership will even be much lower in the end, maybe not initially, but over its lifetime.

That's why I love my second-hand Kyocera.  Put any random toner in there, it says "Original toner installed" on the display and off it goes.  They also still provide drivers for it I-don't-know-how-many-years after it was discontinued.

[Ed.Kloonk]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used. So once you create your account with HP and activate the printer, you are ready to print. It's really simple.

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

Well in that case they can have the f****** thing back, can't they?

[Black Phoenix]

This is a reason why I was lucky to get an old Konika Minolta MFP back when I was in Portugal from a company shutting down.

Having some experience with such printer's maintenance I replace all the wear parts from it and put it to use at home. Did it consumes a lot of energy when it's used compared with a normal printer, yes?

It is a big guy (2x A4 drawers for close to 1000 sheets of paper each plus an A3 one) but wear parts are cheaper and easy to find online, toners are reasonably cheap and have a long page count and prints both sides, scan both sides, have fax and email functionality and it cost me 1000€ plus 400€ in parts to do the maintenance.

Today still going strong at my mom's house, not needing maintenance in the next 10 years because of the amount it prints per year.

[Stray Electron]

My color laserjet was under $300, it prints both sides of the page and the ink doesn't smear if it gets damp later on. I swore off inkjets years ago, I hate the things.

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used.

   That will be when the order gets cancelled and printer returned to the vendor.  I'm fed up with electronics has to be tied to the mother ship and that the vendors and the hackers can reprogram at will. And that the manufacturers can simply drop their support when the "new model" comes out and let the items brick themselves because their SW timed out.

  In fact, I'm in the process of buying a new home heating and AC thermostat for a friend that is going blind and the Wi-Fi connected ones are the FIRST to get crossed off of my list.  I'm seriously considering using an old mercury switch based thermostat.  No times, no dates, no vacations schedules, no set backs, and no tiny, tiny menus on a TINY screen that he can no longer read;  just simple and reliable.

  Back to HP; this is just another in a series of very bad management decisions from a once great engineering company that is now clogged with Harvard MBA types looking to make a fast buck.

[coromonadalix]

loll you dont hear about cars too   ford as issued a pattent  loll   for car recollection if not paid etc ... and other brands who want YOU to pay to get options still running in the car lollll   

windows is now a service

you buy things ...... just buying them  YOU acknowledge some mothership communications ..... IOT thing tooo   yada yada  ...   check BIG BUG  humoristic and satiristic movie ... it give you some ideas   



And yes bad HP management,  i just want to trash my huge @$# printer

[PeteH]

It would be worse if they just detected the 3rd party ink and intentionally produced poor prints or randomly increased what appeared to be clogged heads, etc...

[coromonadalix]

I had an Samsung laser printer

They deliberately blown an resistor in the fuser after x hours of use,  not quantity of printing,   to create the need to buy a new one, i had lots of toner left ...  trashed

It's not HP anymore, other brand too will find loopholes in law   and try their best to make us pay

[shapirus]

Epson must of heard me grumbling. Stumbled over a thing called the EcoTank. Printers are ~$300. Ink arrives in bottles. The print head is forever.

...until it gets clogged. Make sure to print at least a page that uses all the 6 colors, a week. I now print one every other day, when the printer isn't in use otherwise.

And then they have that "flush pad", which, when the printer decides that it has to be replaced (I don't know what exactly triggers it -- it's either a page counter or ink flush counter, or maybe both), will require you to pay for its replacement in an authorized service center. It's easy to replace it on your own, but you need service software to "activate" it and reset the respective flag after it's replaced.

Essentialy it means they have created a problem that you must pay them to solve.

[Peabody]

I've been using a Brother inkjet printer for close to a decade, which doesn't phone home or require OEM ink cartridges.  I just received refills from Ebay - two blacks and one of each color for $10 total.  But it won't last forever, and I wondered if anyone has experience with more recent Brother models, particularly laserjets, as to whether they too have switched to the dark side on refills or fake end-of-life stuff.

[MrMobodies]

...but wait...some  new HP laser printers MUST get an internet connection so they they can be "activated" before they can be used. So once you create your account with HP and activate the printer, you are ready to print. It's really simple.

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/tech/features/hp-explained-what-hp-plus

In CONTRARY to this:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Printer-Setup-Software-Drivers/Why-do-some-printers-need-to-be-connected-to-the-internet-to/td-p/8131898

Why do some printers need to be connected to the internet to work?
 ‎08-06-2021 09:41 AM

Product: Deskjet 4130e
Operating System: Linux
I note that, even after setup, this printer needs to be connected to the internet to work at all; presumably it needs the internet to connect to HP.  Why?
Are there any HP printers that do not require this?
I can ask a friend to use their Windows PC to set the printer up, but I need to tell them exactly what that would involve so that I do not find that they refuse to complete the setup due to being unwilling to do one of its steps.  Can you tell me what these steps are or where I can find out?
In the past I have always been able to install drivers using the OS that the drivers would work with; does setup involve doing anything else?
 
I have used HP printers for decades with excellent results, but I find the above situation confusing and my lack of understanding has robbed me of confidence; I do not know what to expect or whether further problems will arise.

Please help.

08-08-2021 04:25 PM @Michitaka17
HP+ is a choice - one for which your printer is eligible.

HP+ service is not mandatory.

There is no difference between your HP+ eligible printer and the "not HP+" printer hardware.
HP+ is available on certain printers - but HP+ printers are not physically different from their counterparts.
You do not have to purchase a different printer to avoid HP+.
That said, and at this writing, I am not aware of a way to "back out" of having selected HP+.
For one thing, doing so extends the Warranty - this would have to be "undone".
There is no monetary charge for HP+ so there is no "withholding payment" to undo having selected the HP+ option.

If it is not clearly stated on the box that it requires internet in order for it to work I'll take it back and make a complaint.

I see for the first time:
https://www.amazon.com/HP-LaserJet-4001dwe-Wireless-Features/dp/B0B2BH816Y#customerReviews

HP LaserJet Pro 4001dwe Wireless Black & White Printer - Smart Printer Requires Internet  to Operate | Print | Fast Speeds  | Mobile Printing
HP+ enabled MANDATORY printer. The service is required at setup when you purchase laser printers from HP that come with HP
Brand   HP
Connectivity Technology   INTERNET REQUIRED TO OPERATE; print with Wifi or Ethernet
Printing Technology   Laser
Special Feature   Set up and manage printers remotely through the cloud; INTERNET REQUIRED

Date First Available   August 1, 2022

Good they mention these things so to help prevent it being purchased by accident for those who don't want that.

SET UP AND MANAGE FROM ANYWHERE – Perfect for teams in multiple locations. HP Smart Admin Dashboard lets you set up and manage printers from a single dashboard, invite new users, track toner levels, monitor security and control settings from any location.

I could do that already through VPN which does not need internet access to function through the firewall.

STAYS CONNECTED – Intelligent Wi-Fi looks for the best connection to stay online. Always connected and ready to print from anywhere on any device and any network.

Rubbish That depends on your internet connection.

[madires]

I had an Samsung laser printer

They deliberately blown an resistor in the fuser after x hours of use,  not quantity of printing,   to create the need to buy a new one, i had lots of toner left ...  trashed

It's not HP anymore, other brand too will find loopholes in law   and try their best to make us pay

HP bought Samsung's printer business in 2017: https://press.hp.com/us/en/press-releases/2017/hp-completes-acquisition-of-samsung-electronics-co---ltd--printe.html 

[Kleinstein]

I have a brother combined laser printer / copier / fax, that has a rather strange way of telling that the toner is empty. There is a simple mechanical counter for the drum an when the printer shows empty and used for an extended time after that (still works for quite some time) it starts to cause more frequent paper jams  - just turn back the "counter" at the toner cartrige with brute force and all is good again.
I wonder how many of the printers got thrown away for being broken just when the toner is empty or possibly even after getting the new toner, just not installing it.

Another rant about newer HP printers: The printer internal WLAN does not cooperate with older WLAN standards. So 1 HP printer and an old WLAN stick combined mess up the WLAN all around by causing interference / conflicts and new assignments of channels in a near infinite loop. One should replace the old sticks - so there is an easy work around, but I don't think the behavior or the HP printers in compliant with the regulations.

[DimitriP]

  That will be when the order gets cancelled and printer returned to the vendor.  I'm fed up with electronics has to be tied to the mother ship and that the vendors and the hackers can reprogram at will. And that the manufacturers can simply drop their support when the "new model" comes out and let the items brick themselves because their SW timed out.

Available connectivity has caused some "really smart" "management types" to go nuts.
We haven't reached the point of having to scan a QR code before the roll of toilet paper will unroll...but I'm afraid there is some "smart" person out there trying to figure out exactly that.

Regarding dropping support: They do. There is a slew of "old" printers that didn't have drivers for W10. Unless of course you installed a generic/universal/corporate  PCL4 or PCL 5 driver. (skipping the 150MB to 370MB "driver and applications package".