DEX eval by free_electron

[nctnico]

First lets see how easy it is to run existing .NET software on Linux or OSX and then conclude Microsoft made .NET really portable or it is just another sales pitch. I've seen portability from Microsoft (CE aka Windows Phone) and Borland (Kylix) before and those where not very useable solutions for develop once / deploy many.

Perhaps Iliya could do a test and see if DEX also compiles/works on Linux once Microsoft has released .NET for Linux.

[_Sin]

For one thing, Microsoft's open-sourcing / port of .NET won't help if your app has a GUI, because that part of .NET is not actually included.

[IanJ]

Perhaps Iliya could do a test and see if DEX also compiles/works on Linux once Microsoft has released .NET for Linux.

My own humble opinion is that DEX should just remain on Windows. Anything else is just spreading the effort to thin given the size of the dev team.
It's one thing compiling and getting an executable, it's another thing testing it to death to the point you can actually take money in purchase for it.
The non-windows market is just not worth it...........sorry OSX/Linux guys! If those guys really want it then try an emulator.

Again, just my opinion.

Ian.

[timb]

Perhaps Iliya could do a test and see if DEX also compiles/works on Linux once Microsoft has released .NET for Linux.

The non-windows market is just not worth it...........sorry OSX/Linux guys! If those guys really want it then try an emulator.

Again, just my opinion.

Ian.

LOL Walk into college EE101 course and look at how many Macs vs PCs are out. It's the same at trade shows, conferences, HackerSpaces and pretty much every other place I've been in the last 5 years.

Microsoft can't compete on the OS front anymore and they know it, hence .NET and the focus on cloud infrastructure.

In the next 5 years I see some sort of major collaboration between Microsoft and Apple. It'll be a frontline effort to eradicate Google.

Steve Jobs hated Bill Gates at one point, but if it weren't for him in 1997 Apple wouldn't be here today. There before his death, I think he hated Google 10x more than he ever hated Microsoft.

Interesting times ahead. (Sorry, went off on a bit of a ramble there...)


Sent from my Tablet

[nctnico]

The non-windows market is just not worth it...........sorry OSX/Linux guys! If those guys really want it then try an emulator.

I doubt that: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what%27s-your-main-operating-system/
According to the results only 56% uses Windows exclusively.

For one thing, Microsoft's open-sourcing / port of .NET won't help if your app has a GUI, because that part of .NET is not actually included.

Just as I thought Another massive MS fail!

[nctnico]

It says loud and clear 44% of the people don't want to use Windows so there definitely is a market for OSX and Linux versions of software.

[pickle9000]

I doubt that: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/what%27s-your-main-operating-system/
According to the results only 56% uses Windows exclusively.

I don't think we can use the result of this internet survey for anything. For a start the question is leading: what is your main operation system? Even if you say Linux it doesn't mean you don't have access to Windows. Does it include work machines or does the question imply just the ones you personally own? It's really not clear.

For me the issue is of no importance. As a professional you will use whatever tool you need to get the job done. On the bench you need a Windows machine (to interface to equipment), of course there are a few exceptions. But if I needed anything else I'd get it. The same holds true for customers. If they want things a particular way and are willing to pay then no problem. 

[CatalinaWOW]

FE hit the nail on the head.  You use the "best" tool available, where "best" is some muck up of your customers needs, tool availability, cost and your own background and experience.  Those who are purists for one or another operating system are missing some real gems in the other playgrounds.

All that said, Iliya is too small a shop to support multiple OS.  It is a miracle he can support one.  At the time he started this round of development MS was clearly the bigger market, and still is, at least marginally.  Maybe if someone is passionate enough about one of the other OS they can cut a deal with him, get the source code, and become the sole developer for their favorite flavor.  Would take some very serious passion, even if Iliya is totally willing to do this.

[DerekG]

but for most electronics work Windows is the path of least resistance.

You have hit the nail on the head.

If you run iOS you can run most Windows programs under VMware without any problems. Altium runs fine & if you have a reasonable processor with 8GB RAM in your Apple, it runs quite fast.

Where Apple is winning the battle is in the classrooms in Australia. They offer steep discounts to high school & Uni students & they make a number of laptops that last all day without recharging. Apple also work hard with the purchasing departments in the private schools.

These students often never make the jump to Windows. I guess it is one of the advantages Apple have over Microsoft - they make both the operating system & the hardware to run it on.

[Tac Eht Xilef]

Where Apple is winning the battle is in the classrooms in Australia. They offer steep discounts to high school & Uni students ...

Yeah, Apple's 5%-10% .edu discount is 'steep' - much better than the 10%-70+% .edu discounts Lenovo, Acer, HP, Dell, & Microsoft offer...

(Hint for parents, teachers, & students: check your credit card or store card rewards programme - you can often do better than Apple's Education 'discount'.)

These students often never make the jump to Windows.

In my experience (uni) & that of others I know (hs), it's usually the other way around - Mac users are more likely to jump between both, while Windows users tend stick to Windows. I have my observations & opinions on why that might be, but this isn't the thread to start that argument in

But to get on topic: it's true that professionals necessarily choose the OS to suit the tools they use - but I don't think DEX is really playing in the professional space (yet?). While it has some really interesting features, it misses for several other reasons* (except possibly at the low end, places where everything is done in-house, or if its import/export filters are really good). Which leaves it competing in the hobbyist / student / semi-pro market - and in at least one or two of those, it's up against Eagle, DipTrace, & Kicad, which are cross-platform(ish).

(* For one, in many ways it reminds me of some estimating/costing software I was very tangentially involved with back in the days when DOS & Windows overlapped. A little local player running on DOS could accept input by either typing in dimensions or importing Autocad files, spoke of things as "sub-assemblies" & "components", & could export a BoM as .csv and print it out in all the formats used by local suppliers. On the other hand, the big international competition running on Windows required you to re-enter all your drawings manually with a tablet, spoke of "recipes" and "ingredients"**, could only export to its own weird format***, and was hard-coded to print out in a non-standard format on US paper sizes.

Guess which held 95% of the market here?)

(** We always figured they assumed data entry & preparing quotes was done by contractor's wives & secretaries...)
(*** #-delimited, IIRC. Which was a big problem in an industry where suppliers typically used a "#nn" suffix for different mods/versions of an assembly...)

[Iliya]

Over 90 Tutorial Videos on AutoTRAX DEX
3D
3D PCB Viewing in AutoTRAX
Semi-transparent PCBs with AutoTRAX
Viewing PCBs and Their Internal Structure in AutoTRAX
Adding, moving and rotating 3D objects on PCBs
Active 3D Preview for AutoTRAX Design Express (DEX)

GENERAL
Viewing the AutoTRAX Sample Projects
LM3914 LED Display
Creating a simple amplifier using pre-designed circuits
100 Watt Amplifier Design
Installing AutoTRAX
Schematic, Simulation, PCB Design and Solid Modeling
Running AutoTRAX for The First Time
Updating DEX
The AutoTRAX Workspace
Viewports
Docking and Floating Panels
Undo/redo and disaster recovery
The AutoTRAX DEX Status Bar
Using the Color Bar in AutoTRAX
Arranging Viewports in AutoTRAX
The AutoTRAX DEX Settings Panel
Halloween with AutoTRAX
The AutoTRAX File Viewer
Switch from a ribbon to classic menu in DEX

GRAPHICS
Adding Graphics To Your Drawings
Text
Note Boxes
Polylines
Polygons
Rectangles
Ellipses
Arcs
Lines
Images/Pictures
Dimensions
Adding and editing lines
Measuring Distances in AutoTRAX DEX
Using Guides in DEX

NEW
Manufacturing Your Printed Circuit Board
Creating a Part for a Button Battery
Post Auto-Route Optimization
Adding a Button Battery to the LED Voltage Ladder
Schematic Editing
Convert TPH to SMT
LM3914 LED Display
3D Modelling in Active3D
Track Necking
Real-Time Design Rule PCB Checking (DRC)
STL 3D Export
Changing Track Width When Manual Routing
Adding Holes and Cutouts to a PCB
Adding Graphics To Your Drawings
Arcs
Polylines
Polygons
Rectangles
Ellipses
Lines
Text
Note Boxes
Images/Pictures
Dimensions
Viewports
Docking and Floating Panels
Importing a PCB from AutoCAD
Combing Shapes into a PCB

PARTS
Creating a part with 4 schematic symbols (Split part)
Creating a custom potentiometer
Splitting Part Symbols on a Schematic
Parts in DEX
Customizing a parametric footprint
Capturing Pin Details from a PDF
Creating a Custom SOT223 Transistor
Creating a Power Mosfet Part
How to create a PCB pad with a rounded end
Adding Thermal Vias
Creating round, rectangular and polygonal pads and offsetting pad holes.

PCBS
Convert TPH to SMT
3D Modelling in Active3D
Track Necking
Real-Time Design Rule PCB Checking (DRC)
STL 3D Export
Changing Track Width When Manual Routing
An Insight into PCB AutoLayout with DEX
Adding Holes and Cutouts to a PCB
Importing a PCB from AutoCAD
Combing Shapes into a PCB
One Click PCB board design, layout and auto-routing
Rotating Parts on PCBs
Swapping connections for a part
Quick Autorouting
PCB Manual Routing
3 Manual Routing Styles
Connection a SMT pad to an internal copper pour
Quick Manual Routing
Interactive PCB Routing with DEX
Manual Routing with DEX - 2
Manually Routing TPH pads and SMT pads
Manual Routing with Automatic Targets
Adding a Track Jumper in AutoTRAX
Swapping Layers with DEX
Setting a PCB track width from a schematic
Teardrops on pads/via with DEX
Auto-routing with DEX and ELECTRA
Cross Cursors in DEX
Solder Mask Differences in PCBs
True-type fonts for PCB production

SCHEMATICS
A Simple Resistor Ladder
Automatic wiring using DEX
Automatic Wire Jumpers
Wire and Bus junctions in DEX
Schematic Wiring Made Simple
Hierarchical Top-Down Design
Saving Designs for Re-use
Reference Designators in DEX
Schematic-PCB Cross Selection in DEX
Re-positioning symbol names and pin number
Marking terminals as no connection required

[monksod]

Isn't it free anymore? I re-downloaded it and it asks me to register & pay etc?

[tautech]

Isn't it free anymore? I re-downloaded it and it asks me to register & pay etc?

Interesting.
From the DEX website:

Simply put, non-commercial use is totally free, commercial use is not. If you are making $$$ out of your design then it is only fair that you pay an equally fair single price.

i'm sure Iliya would have edited his website if this were not the case. 

[Iliya]

Isn't it free anymore? I re-downloaded it and it asks me to register & pay etc?

AutoTRAX version 6 is no longer free.

You can download version 5 from http://pcb.software/DexDownloads/DEX_NonCommercial.exe
This is the last version that is free for non-commercial use. If you use this and do not wish it to update to version 6 simply click no. You will now be asked again. So keep of copy of this.

Version 6 loads up a lot faster than 5 versions and contains over 3000 modifications/improvements to the code base.

Unlike other EDA programs, DEX has just one simple to understand price for use. Although it is not free, the ridiculously low price of $49 is extremely good value for what you get and it goes to fund new development.

I apologize if this is upsetting, but I do have to eat and fund development.

Thanks to all who has contributed valuable feedback and suggestions, yes, even to free-electron.

Regards
Iliya Kovac

[nctnico]

How about a trial version?

[Mechatrommer]

I apologize if this is upsetting, but I do have to eat and fund development.

what do you eat if people/marketing have harder access to your stuffs? there are many other ways other than watermark in gerber. i shouldnt teach you what, you are the programmer. i think your starvation will force you to open up again next time, just as several versions i experienced before.

[Warhawk]

How about a trial version?

+1 for trial version

[robrenz]

This thread and a look around the dex site pushed me to spend $50.00.  I have lightly dabbled in Eagle and Diptrace before and so far I am very impressed dex.

[Iliya]

How about a trial version?

The current downloadable version of AutoTRAX DEX is exactly the same as a full version. The only difference is that if it is not enabled by entering the software key which is a text string then it will not output to Gerber and there are a few restrictions on printing and plotting. The software key is machine independent and never expires and will authorise an unlimited number of machines. This software will also expire in seven days if a software key is not entered.

This is now done because for me it is quite simple. I only wish to sell one version of the software and that version does everything and nothing is disabled. I feel very uncomfortable in providing a “free” version which really is a Trojan horse. Many of my competitors are doing this but I think it is immoral.

See my article: free but not free or “I’m off to Cancun”. http://kov.com/Newsletter/Cancun

In 1996 while living in San Diego I was writing 3-D software. I was very much interested in getting my hands dirty doing electronics again and so decided to buy a PCB design suite. I selected MultiSim with UltraBoard and paid $1000 for the privilege. When I was using it I discovered that certain bits were messing so I phoned up the company that sold it to me only to discover that I’d bought the educational copy. I was shocked at having stumped up $1000 to only get the teaching version. So that is why I start to develop AutoTRAX EDA.

In ‘98 I returned to England and worked for a 3-D parametric solid modelling company at their research department in Cambridge; the main office was in Boston. I remember that one week selected developers were shipped off to Bermuda to have a think-tank style meeting about development. During that meeting one of the founders of that company discussed his plans for Trojan horses to give to Autodesk users and to get them to convert to the Boston software. His saying was “free, but not free”. So my saying is “beware geeks bearing gifts”.

If you buy a car you expect to be able to use all the seats and not to find several seats padlocked with coin meters.

[Iliya]

To thanks all you guys and gals who have given me so much to think about and so much grief, though I have given some back!  I am going to give you 10 bucks (US) of the price of $49 and you can have it for a lunacy price of $39.

http://kov.com/Purchase/eevblog

However my accountant (the cat!) says it must end at Easter as we are both off to Cancun.



So here's you change to get DEX at the steal price of $39. 

This is the FULL version and includes free upgrades for 12 months and never expires.
The software is machine independent, works on any Windows XP or later M/C and never expires.
Unlimited pin count, sheets, layers, parts, PCB size - in other words : everything unlimited!

Now I'm off to find some food for the cat. 

I'll give a free license to free-electron if he wants to use DEX! 

[nctnico]

I apologize if this is upsetting, but I do have to eat and fund development.

Understandable. On the open source topic: there are many open source software developers which get paid to add certain functionality to an open source package or create revenue from support & books. The idea behind it is that you build on existing infrastructure instead of creating a new application from scratch. For many software users the software they use is just a tool so it doesn't matter the competition has the same tool. Over the years I have found myself working on open source software while getting paid several times.

[mtdoc]

This is the FULL version and includes free upgrades for 12 months and never expires.

Excellent value.   

What happens after 12 months?  Must you repay full price for upgrades?

[SeanB]

No version upgrades, you stay at whatever version is out at that time.

[mtdoc]

No version upgrades, you stay at whatever version is out at that time.

Right. I understand once I buy it I can continue to use that version and any upgrade I get within 12 months.

But if I buy it now and in 2 years I want the latest version will it be another $49 (or whatever the price is at the time for the full version) or will there be a reduced fee for upgrades?

[Iliya]

I apologize if this is upsetting, but I do have to eat and fund development.

Understandable. On the open source topic: there are many open source software developers which get paid to add certain functionality to an open source package or create revenue from support & books. The idea behind it is that you build on existing infrastructure instead of creating a new application from scratch. For many software users the software they use is just a tool so it doesn't matter the competition has the same tool. Over the years I have found myself working on open source software while getting paid several times.

FYI I use Antlr4 and Bison/Flex. Both open source. I bought the books but the S/W is free.