DEX eval by free_electron

[Mechatrommer]

1) can one symbol be used by multiple parts?
2) can one footprint be used by multiple parts?

1) Yes
2) Yes
[/quote]
Did 1 and 2 get added recently ?
Last time i checked both symbol and footprint are stored in the same file so you cannot crosslink.
[/quote]you contributed to the upgrade and you get hated, this is modern world modern people with modern attitude! (not to mention modern sw) be it you didnt contribute any, they'll still be happy in there cave...

[Wytnucls]

It's quite incredible what he has achieved as a one man band. Sure, there are a few issues, but mostly it is excellent. Some of the issues people are complaining about are just getting used to the new (and better) way that it works I think. The benefits far outweigh the limitations though. Things like library management are a giant pain the arse in most CAD packages, but very easy in DEX.

But I would still like to see an answer to these simple questions:
1) can one symbol be used by multiple parts?
2) can one footprint be used by multiple parts?
3) can all layers be edited in a footprint (including solder mask and outline layer)?
4) can you place & rotate pads and components by punching in coordinates and angle numbers?

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes

Did 1 and 2 get added recently ?
Last time i checked both symbol and footprint are stored in the same file so you cannot crosslink.

There was no mention of crosslinking in the questions.
It is possible to recall a part, modify the symbol and save it under another part name, while keeping the footprint like the original. In other words, the footprint doesn't have to be redrawn every time.

[nctnico]

It's quite incredible what he has achieved as a one man band. Sure, there are a few issues, but mostly it is excellent. Some of the issues people are complaining about are just getting used to the new (and better) way that it works I think. The benefits far outweigh the limitations though. Things like library management are a giant pain the arse in most CAD packages, but very easy in DEX.

But I would still like to see an answer to these simple questions:
1) can one symbol be used by multiple parts?
2) can one footprint be used by multiple parts?
3) can all layers be edited in a footprint (including solder mask and outline layer)?
4) can you place & rotate pads and components by punching in coordinates and angle numbers?

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes

Did 1 and 2 get added recently ?
Last time i checked both symbol and footprint are stored in the same file so you cannot crosslink.

There was no mention of crosslinking in the questions.
It is possible to recall a part, modify the symbol and save it under another part name, while keeping the footprint like the original. In other words, the footprint doesn't have to be redrawn every time.

Then you misunderstood my question. Earlier I wrote that a component consists of a symbol and a footprint. So you need a library with footprints, a library with symbols and an (internal) database which links the symbols and footprints to components. That is the workflow of any CAD package (the more archaic ones leave the linkage as a manual job for the user though).
In many cases you will want to update a certain footprint or symbol for every component which uses that footprint or symbol. Having to edit each component individually is a nuisance and prone to errors!

[Wytnucls]

I didn't misunderstand your simple questions. The possibility is there.
It was established earlier that the program doesn't have crosslinking of separate part databases. I doubt that the architecture could be changed without a significant rewrite of the whole software.

[free_electron]

That is not the functionality we are looking for.
Yes you can clone a part and mod it. But, if that footprint needs a tweak you need to alter all cloned symbols. That is unworkable.

Crosslinking allows you to define one footprint and tie it to multiple symbols. Touch the footprint and all get updated.

Imagine a library with 3000 resistors all in 0805 . You need to tweak the courtyard. That would be an immense task.

The same goes for a lot of ic's. Many are a ailable in dofferent packages so you have to create those each and every time ? That is ridiculous. All other pcb cad packages use crosslinking to make life easy.

Having different ideas can be good. But this is an instance where doing it differently is not a good idea.

[Wytnucls]

I don't disagree with you and that might be a major flaw of the program for commercial use, if it doesn't get rectified. Hopefully, a remedy is in the works, but I would be surprised if it turns out to be a quick and easy update.

[DerekG]

I don't disagree with you and that might be a major flaw of the program for commercial use, if it doesn't get rectified. Hopefully, a remedy is in the works, but I would be surprised if it turns out to be a quick and easy update.

As an AutoTrax DEX 2020 user (full name used here so Mr Google finds it easily), you will be able to let us know if/when this is implemented.

I note that when I type in Autotrax DEX into Google, that this forum now pops up second behind the developer's own www.kov.com website.

I also note that this forum thread has now been read 22292 times since the 25th of January.

That works out at 743 reads/day which is quite impressive.

This has probably been the largest single exposure that AutoTrax DEX 2020 has ever had on the web.

I also note that Free Electron has updated his opening post. Vincent's edited post is well worth reading.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/dex-eval-by-free_electron/msg594103/#msg594103

[tautech]

I don't disagree with you and that might be a major flaw of the program for commercial use, if it doesn't get rectified.

It's a MAJOR flaw for ALL users.
Shit even a 4000 series logic IC is available in at least 3 different packages.
To be able to select the foootprint of your choice is a must.

[iampoor]

I don't disagree with you and that might be a major flaw of the program for commercial use, if it doesn't get rectified.

It's a MAJOR flaw for ALL users.
Shit even a 4000 series logic IC is available in at least 3 different packages.
To be able to select the foootprint of your choice is a must.

 
This is probablly the most important missing feature.

[Mechatrommer]

even a 4000 series logic IC is available in at least 3 different packages.
To be able to select the foootprint of your choice is a must.

This is probablly the most important missing feature.

up to the point of f_e's evaluation (component library). this is just the beginning, the fun is only the tip of iceberg.

[iampoor]

even a 4000 series logic IC is available in at least 3 different packages.
To be able to select the foootprint of your choice is a must.

This is probablly the most important missing feature.

up to the point of f_e's evaluation (component library). this is just the beginning, the fun is only the tip of iceberg.

I agree that alot of very important features are missing, but every man and his dog needs to be able to select multiple footprints. 

[Iliya]

even a 4000 series logic IC is available in at least 3 different packages.
To be able to select the foootprint of your choice is a must.

This is probablly the most important missing feature.

up to the point of f_e's evaluation (component library). this is just the beginning, the fun is only the tip of iceberg.

I agree that alot of very important features are missing, but every man and his dog needs to be able to select multiple footprints. 

[rsjsouza]

I don't disagree with you and that might be a major flaw of the program for commercial use, if it doesn't get rectified. Hopefully, a remedy is in the works, but I would be surprised if it turns out to be a quick and easy update.

I agree the multiple footprint selection makes bulk changes a lot easier. Although I see there may be a way to partially overcome this by enabling users to add their complete parts to the Part Builder --> tab Custom. Thus, changing the footprint of a part on a given PCB project would be very easy.

I think the same capability could be enabled to the Parts top menu (on schematics view).

So, perhaps this is already possible, but I am not sure how to do it.

[Iliya]

Question of the day

How you get a part that is contained in a single file with no external dependencies, the file is extremely small and contains an infinite number of footprints/land patterns?

Answers in by Friday

[Iliya]

Another question of the day

What happens when you have a design that uses external references to files in a local library when you give that design to a third party who has the same library but they have modified some of the external references in their library that your design uses but they have not told you?

Clue: what do you see and what they see?

Again answers in by Friday

[Iliya]

Yet another question of the day

What happens when you have spent years doing something in a way that you never questioned and then somebody comes along with a different way of doing things that could possibly be better and you didn’t even bother to RTFM or WTFV?

Again answers in by Friday

[tautech]

Glad to see you back. 
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Iliya]

What’s New in AutoTRAX Design Express (DEX) since 25th. January(1 month)

Wednesday 25th February, 2015
•   Two new layers have been added to PCBs. These are the top solder paste layer and the bottom solder paste layer.  Any graphics you add to either of these layers will be added as solder paste.
•   Surface mount pads normally automatically add their own solder paste but you can turn this off using the pads properties panel. You will then most likely add your own solder paste area.
•   No mask areas normally do not add any solder paste but you can have them automatically add solder paste by checking the add solder paste checkbox in the no mask areas properties panel.
•   The two solder paste layers are automatically output to Gerber.
•   No mask areas can now be grouped. This is useful for making a combined object which consists of an area of copper created by drawing a graphics object on the top or bottom copper layer and adding a no mask area to create an opening in the solder mask and finally adding a series of solder paste areas. Grouping the copper shape, the no mask area and the solder pastes creates a useful object that can be moved, rotated and scaled.
•   Export to PDF now embeds any text documents. These can be opened by Microsoft Word or any compatible reader.
Tuesday 24th February, 2015
•   The part builder’s symbols now sort correctly by pad names, taking into account pad names being numbers. Numbers come before names. 
•   Spiral Inductors and Aerial’s can now be mirrored.
•   Fix for library panel where if you moved a part into the same directory using drag then it was placed in the Recycle bin!
•   Array rectangular and circular controls now have Create buttons disabled if arraying is not possible.
Sunday 22nd February, 2015
•   PDF export now supports Unicode.
Saturday 21st February, 2015
•   Page scale works in PDF export.
•   Transparency in images for PDF export implemented.
Friday 20th February, 2015
•   New improved PDF export.
•   PDF export can optionally include the current project/part.
•   Work still to do one PDF export includes line style, transparency in images and radial/linear color fill.
•   Create a rectangular array improved.
•   Create a circular array now has interactive command. Click on the interactive button in the create circular array dialog to start. Hold down the left mouse button and drag the cursor to see the circular array change size. There is a similar feature in create rectangular array.
•   It is now possible to create arrays of horizontal and vertical guides.
Thursday 19th February, 2015
•   Added more to the help file.
•   Improved Part Builder changes for parts in projects and when changing footprint type in the part editor. Wherever possible the schematic symbol is not changed.
Tuesday 17th February, 2015
•   Fix for rotate 90/180 and mirror for polygonal pads.
•   Guides now draw with dashed style to reflect the construction line nature of guides.
•   Change scale up/down scale control to have a calculator.
Monday 16th February, 2015
•   Fix for pasting.
•   When pasting, if the mouse cursor is inside a viewport, the viewport will displays the pasted objects and they will follow the mouse. Press to finally place the objects.
•   If in normal pick mode, click mouse button 4 or 5 copies selected to the clipboard and pastes it. Move to place and click mouse button 4 or 5 will place it and show you another to move and place. Left click ends it.
•   Dominant object selection indicator improved. Dotted rectangle around dominant.
•   Added origin context menu item to place origin at the placement point in the part editor.
Saturday 14th February, 2015
•   Hide status bar in the status context menu updates controls.
•   Set pad center in rectangle and ellipse shape editors now works.
•   Rotate 3D buttons now work in PCBs.
Friday 13th February, 2015
•   New web services for problem reports.
•   Added help for soldermasks.
•   Fixed problem the initial margin for soldermask had a point in error. It did correct itself but now it’s always OK.
•   Default soldermask margin now 4 mil.
•   Copy and paste, pastes over the original position.
Tuesday 10th February, 2015
•   Part tweaks in the library.
•   Courtyard auto-sizes(optional) in part edit.
•   If DEX cannot save then DEX will not close.
You have to:
•   Close without saving or
•   Save to another location or
•   Fix the reason it can't save. e.g. put the USB back in!
•   Fix for silkscreen control in part builder. Now works ok.
Monday 9th February, 2015
•   Fix for occasional sporadic resizing of parametric footprint when adding additional pad.
Sunday 8th February, 2015
•   Add auto-dimming button to route settings panel and auto-dimming button to the route menu.
•   Improved snap to objects for the PCB border.
•   Stopped snap to courtyards, silkscreens when they are hidden.
Friday 6th February, 2015
•   Chip packages now have color.
•   Selected symbol terminals that are normally invisible in schematics now show has a red spot is selected.
•   View selected entity now shows slightly more of the surroundings.
•   Checklist UI improved.
•   Fixed bug when placing footprints around border. Some track not unrouted and appear white.
•   Rotating and moving footprints will do real-time DRC if enabled.
Thursday 5th February, 2015
•   Added end manual routing key (press enter). During manual routing press enter to leave the track you are editing as it is.
•   Align and distribute now works with sub-picked objects.
•   Changed page scale control in the sheet properties to a spin editor. When you change the scale the page content is centered and the viewport shows you all the page.
Wednesday 4th February, 2015
•   Improved switch of footprint types in part edit and in project. Maintain pad count, terminal name and terminal to pad mapping.
•   Single sided boards do not have copper for pads/vias on the non-copper side.
Monday 2nd February, 2015
•   Bug reporter – increased font size and formatting in description.
•   Added option in application settings to increase/decrease zoom when using the mouse wheel. It is in Application->User Interface->Mouse Wheel Scale.
Sunday 1st. February, 2015
•   Improved Add Resistor dialog and Add Capacitor dialog. Also new library part parame you are a a is a you are ters.
Saturday 31st January, 2015
•   Fix for libraries not installing some artwork files.
•   Improved quality of combining shapes with circles/ellipses.
Thurday 29th January, 2015
•   Status bar now has more controls. Improved status from some commands.
•   Move units display from the windows title bat to the tabs for each viewport.
Wednesday 28th January, 2015
•   Status bar now appears on the top. Right click to see context menu to switch location.
•   Added toggle rotation snap to the viewport right click context menu.
•   rotation snap on by default.
•   Added units button to Part Builder-Footprint. This shows/sets PCB units. When viewing schematics this is the PCB units not the schematics units.
•   Removed imperial/metric buttons.
Tuesday 27th January, 2015
•   Fix for erratic behaviour when moving rectangle corners.
•   Added units text in the window caption. (at the end). Units can be different on different sheets.
•   Fix for moving rectangular objects. Sometimes would snap to ½ snap space. OK now.
•   Fix for library footprints for polarized capacitors. Silkscreen marker added.
Monday 26th January, 2015
•   Symbol terminals (pin number and text) now show selection box not selected as red. This allows you to see the color if you change it interactively.
•   Search result in library panel now sorted.
•   Status and tooltips displayed when resizing objects.
Sunday 25th January, 2015
•   Fix for reference designators for capacitors in the parts library.
•   Empty community directories removed.

[Iliya]

Changes to DEX since 19th April, 2009

View Changes

Note: What you see today will probably not be what you see tomorrow and definitely will not what you will see in one month...

[EEVblog]

That is not the functionality we are looking for.
Yes you can clone a part and mod it. But, if that footprint needs a tweak you need to alter all cloned symbols. That is unworkable.
Crosslinking allows you to define one footprint and tie it to multiple symbols. Touch the footprint and all get updated.

Caveat: I have not used DEX
But I have to agree with FE here, it is obvious to anyone who has ever done any commercial PCB design work - if you can't link a PCB footprint to multiple parts then that renders a PCB CAD package all but unusable in the real world.
This is a complete and absolute show-stopper.

[gman4925]

Quote

How you get a part that is contained in a single file with no external dependencies, the file is extremely small and contains an infinite number of footprints/land patterns?

No external dependencies? Include the part in the project file.
Extremely small? Compression and parameterization of parts that can be parameterized, with all variables of parametrization available for editing.
Infinite number? You are not going to get infinite, but even if you have tens of thousands of parts I don't think a modern computer is going to have trouble storing the footprints in a file.
If you are more concerned about saving a few mb of file size than easily and accurately representing a custom footprint, you will not be able to have custom footprints.
Quote

What happens when you have a design that uses external references to files in a local library when you give that design to a third party who has the same library but they have modified some of the external references in their library that your design uses but they have not told you?

Store all parts as used in the project file.
Perform a checksum against parts in the library.
Link parts that the checksum matches, display parts from file where they don't match.
Offer to create a library of the parts that don't match.Quote

Clue: what do you see and what they see?

If handled properly, the same thing.
If handled poorly, an error or warning.
If handled terribly, different things.
Quote

What happens when you have spent years doing something in a way that you never questioned and then somebody comes along with a different way of doing things that could possibly be better and you didn’t even bother to RTFM or WTFV?

Question both ways.
Compare both ways.
Ask why one way is done more than the other.
Ask the person promoting the different way what benefits it has.
Ask the person promoting the different way what drawbacks it has that they know of.
Inform the person promoting the different way of drawbacks they may not be aware of.
Discuss the benefits and drawbacks.

[Iliya]

Quote

What happens when you have spent years doing something in a way that you never questioned and then somebody comes along with a different way of doing things that could possibly be better and you didn’t even bother to RTFM or WTFV?

Question both ways.
Compare both ways.
Ask why one way is done more than the other.
Ask the person promoting the different way what benefits it has.
Ask the person promoting the different way what drawbacks it has that they know of.
Inform the person promoting the different way of drawbacks they may not be aware of.
Discuss the benefits and drawbacks.

You appear to be single sided. You forgot...

Ask the person promoting the old way what benefits it has.
Ask the person promoting the old way what drawbacks it has that they know of.
Inform the person promoting the old way of drawbacks they may not be aware of

[Iliya]

That is not the functionality we are looking for.
Yes you can clone a part and mod it. But, if that footprint needs a tweak you need to alter all cloned symbols. That is unworkable.
Crosslinking allows you to define one footprint and tie it to multiple symbols. Touch the footprint and all get updated.

Caveat: I have not used DEX
But I have to agree with FE here, it is obvious to anyone who has ever done any commercial PCB design work - if you can't link a PCB footprint to multiple parts then that renders a PCB CAD package all but unusable in the real world.
This is a complete and absolute show-stopper.

DEX has parametric parts, you can change the part at anytime in the project. So it's a done deal in DEX.
You can easily add additional parts using the Excel csv files in the library.
DEX's part builder is based on some deas in the IPC-7351B Footprint Expert but extended to the complete part.

Perhaps if you try DEX or view the videos you will see for yourself.

[timb]

I think that's covered under the umbrella of discussing the benefits and drawbacks. In fact, it could be summarized as: Discuss the benefits and drawbacks of both methods. Maybe with an *added clause of: Don't throw a temper tantrum if your method isn't well received and/or accepted; sometimes you're *not* the smartest person in the room.

*This applies to both sides of the table, I'm not singling Iliya out.


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[timb]

That is not the functionality we are looking for.
Yes you can clone a part and mod it. But, if that footprint needs a tweak you need to alter all cloned symbols. That is unworkable.
Crosslinking allows you to define one footprint and tie it to multiple symbols. Touch the footprint and all get updated.

Caveat: I have not used DEX
But I have to agree with FE here, it is obvious to anyone who has ever done any commercial PCB design work - if you can't link a PCB footprint to multiple parts then that renders a PCB CAD package all but unusable in the real world.
This is a complete and absolute show-stopper.

DEX has parametric parts, you can change the part at anytime in the project. So it's a done deal in DEX.
You can easily add additional parts using the Excel csv files in the library.
DEX's part builder is based on some deas in the IPC-7351B Footprint Expert but extended to the complete part.

Perhaps if you try DEX or view the videos you will see for yourself.

*Bangs head on desk.* That's not what we're asking for. We need to be able to change a footprint or symbol, which in turn is reflected in every part it's linked to.

Say I have an MSSOP-16E footprint that's used in 100 parts, if I change that footprint all the parts in the library which use it will reflect the change without me doing anything.

You need footprints, symbols and parts. Think of parts as just metadata descriptors that link to a particular footprint and symbol, along with containing specific information on the part (pin numbers and names, electrical characteristics of the pins and so on). The parts don't actually contain copies of the symbols or footprints, they just symbolically link to them.

That's about as clear as I can make it...


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