DEX eval by free_electron

[mswhin63]

If I heard correctly someone is using Dragon. Well so do I but I do not abuse it. As technical writers should use technical language to make things easy to read and more  understandable.

Learn how to use it properly. Technical writing (speech) not conversational speech (writing). Now I see why it is so confusing.

I think overall all opposition is based on the fact it is NOT Altium. You are fine to use it, great make the appropriate submission and stop the real users from their feature requests from being pushed back. If it is genuine request then I am very positive that it will be dealt with and a far far better manner than Altium, Eagle KiCad and most major CAD software.

Read the instruction before you start evaluating. I repeat THIS IS NOT ALTIUM FOR #&(* SAKE

[mswhin63]

Iliya, just a taste of Australian workplace language for us grunts. Stop piss farting around with these shit-heads and get on with your real users please.

[Iliya]

Iliya, just a taste of Australian workplace language for us grunts. Stop piss farting around with these shit-heads and get on with your real users please.

Sadly, you are right. I don't think this is going anywhere. So, I'm off.  I expect loads of posts from the Trolls to follow this, somebody will most likely tell me to F$## off; it's happened before (however the post was deleted shortly after.) ...

[Wytnucls]

Like they say: 'If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen'
Which is a mistake, as you have here some people with extensive experience with a plethora of CAD programs. If I understood properly, your initial intention was to get more exposure for your software in the hope that it will be adopted by the people that matter: Professionals.
To achieve that, DEX would have to offer the same set of functions or more, at a lower price, with a logical and easier interface, while respecting the industry standards.
From what I have read in this thread and my personal experience with it, DEX is not far from achieving that goal. It just needs some tweaking here and there. F_E has kept on exploring the program, because he sees the potential in your creation.
It is perhaps fitting to read his first post again:

A word of warning before you delve into this extensive topic.
This is a one man's opinion. Please do go out and give the software a try for yourself. It is worth it and would be unfair to rely only on my review.

[KJDS]

I really want this software to work. I'm keeping an eye on this thread because it seems that DEX has the potential to be very good.

Having said that, I'm not going to install it and start playing with it until either I see that it is capable of laying out pcbs better than my current solution. At the moment I can see that each schematic symbol has it's own footprint and not a common one. That is a deal breaker, which is a shame as there is clearly a lot of promise in this.

I rather suspect that there are a lot of people looking on with the same thoughts. Why evaluate it ourselves when someone with a lot of experience is doing that and providing a lot of insight into what needs to be improved.

Iliya, please don't take comments from people on here personally, just accept that if someone recommends a need from your product that you realize that there really may be a need.

[robrenz]

@ Iliya

Solid Works is what it is today because they take all customer feedback seriously. Nothing is too nitpicky if you want to be the best software available.  Having an opportunity to have very experienced users (not hobbyists) give real world feedback is very valuable and should not be thrown away lightly. Obviously even with the resources at SW disposal enhancements and bug reports need to be prioritized.  I suggest swallowing your pride and cataloging all the requests made and then posting it here for a vote on priority levels and tackle them in order.

If you seriously want your software to be the best it can be, don't throw this golden opportunity away.

[tautech]

It looks like this topic has now been read 20,000+ times.

And with good reason.  v

If you seriously want your software to be the best it can be, don't throw this golden opportunity away.

[tautech]

It's a real shame he has left. Some good progress was being made improving the software with minor but important fixes. Suddenly I'm less enthusiastic about it.

And that might piss you off after devoting some time to DEX.

Fingers crossed there is more to come.

[KJDS]

It's a real shame he has left. Some good progress was being made improving the software with minor but important fixes. Suddenly I'm less enthusiastic about it.

And that might piss you off after devoting some time to DEX.

Fingers crossed there is more to come.

It's frustrating that this is so close to being a decent product. So close and yet so far.

[Wytnucls]

Don't give up yet. DEX gets updated on a daily basis as Iliya is willing to entertain requests if they make sense and can be incorporated in the software, without too much disruption.
For instance, it is now possible to make your own grid, with construction lines, if you work like Vincent, when creating pads for a fancy package.

[timb]

Everything seemed to be going fine and suddenly he (once again) takes his toys and goes home. I don't get it.

Iliya has a very Jeckly and Hyde personality.

He also keeps blaming "trolls" for everything. I don't think that word means what he thinks it means.

It's a shame too, I was entertaining the idea of trying the software out once a few of Vincent's requests got added, as I'm getting tired of waiting for the new release of DipTrace to come out (with a native Mac binary; if I have to run my EDA tool in a VM I might as well try something new out).

DEX's interface is light years ahead of anything else.

*Sighs* This really had possibility. Vincent's knowledge with Iliya's skills...


Sent from my Smartphone

[DerekG]

Why don't you present a logical case for a solder paste layer?

I'm hopeful that Iliya will return to the forum. He has certainly worked hard at implementing many of Free Electrons suggestions ............ all within a very short time frame.

Now, to the solder paste screen. I will attempt to be constructive.

We should also be able to also choose different grids for the solder paste stencil.

The reason for this is that solder paste is now often used as a heat-sink for SMD components. To keep the rigidity of the solder paste stencil & to prevent the flux from forming bubbles in large areas of solder paste, we need to grid the solder paste on top of the exposed copper (no solder mask on the copper pour of course).

The mosfet heat-sinking is provided by the solder paste. To do this we:

1/ Place a polygon copper pour on the top layer;
2/ Open up the solder mask so that the copper remains exposed;
3/ Place "Gridded" solder paste on top of the exposed copper. When the board is run through the infra-red reflow oven, the solder paste will spread out, covering all the exposed copper. The mosfet now has fantastic cooling by the solder paste (often 2oz or 3oz copper is also chosen to aid with cooling) & the board is complete as soon as it comes out of the reflow oven. No heatsink to buy, no heatsink to install & no messing around with heat transfer paste.

I have uploaded an example below (completed manually in DipTrace as DipTrace does not auto-generate patterns on the solder paste mask layer - I have requested that they add this to their next upcoming version).

Notes:
Background is grey
Top copper layer is hidden
Top solder mask exclusion area is in pink
Top solder paste is in dark yellow. The grids were all painstakingly added manually.

[mswhin63]

Don't give up yet. DEX gets updated on a daily basis as Iliya is willing to entertain requests if they make sense and can be incorporated in the software, without too much disruption.
For instance, it is now possible to make your own grid, with construction lines, if you work like Vincent, when creating pads for a fancy package.

There will be no giving up, DEX has its own website, Forum, but reporting system and feature request system. This forum should not be used for that purpose but unfortunately a lot of people think so.

I stepped in because I pay for the software quite some time ago which is only for one year to and there is updates every year to be paid and is for this reason I got annoyed as paid users were being put aside because of Vincent's rambling. If he has any ambitions to this software any needs to do it on the site along with everybody else.

DEX is a one-man show, and I am quite sure that Iliya's outbursts were due to a lot of arguments and if you've ever read all of this post find some pretty silly comments made by Vincent which are just totally out of order for a person of this professional nature. Iliya in my opinion was spreading himself too thin by trying to support a site other than his own. I am sure that a lot of people when they come up to a situation will either put in a feature request or a bug report and it will be very quickly sorted out.

[DerekG]

I stepped in because I pay for the software quite some time ago which is only for one year to and there is updates every year to be paid and is for this reason I got annoyed as paid users were being put aside because of Vincent's rambling.

AutoTrax DEX used to cost $299, then $249, then $149, then $99. Now it is $49.

Iliya has to eat. There is just so much competition out there these days.

Vincent was just trying to offer suggestions to bring some really useful features into DEX, along with pointing out some improvements that could be made.

If a good portion of these advanced features are implemented, DEX will compete against more expensive software & Iliya will again be able to charge $149 (or even $299).

This will let him put more & better food on his table. Iliya will be happy as will his customers.

Often people who are really focused (like both Vincent & Iliya) don't waste time with superlatives. This can lead to some quite heated debates & can be taken the wrong way.

There are features in DEX that Vincent really likes. That is why he has persisted with his evaluation.

If DEX offers more advanced features & is even easier to learn, then Iliya will be able to take more holidays to his favourite location in the Caribbean, Cancun.

[nctnico]

It's quite incredible what he has achieved as a one man band. Sure, there are a few issues, but mostly it is excellent. Some of the issues people are complaining about are just getting used to the new (and better) way that it works I think. The benefits far outweigh the limitations though. Things like library management are a giant pain the arse in most CAD packages, but very easy in DEX.

But I would still like to see an answer to these simple questions:
1) can one symbol be used by multiple parts?
2) can one footprint be used by multiple parts?
3) can all layers be edited in a footprint (including solder mask and outline layer)?
4) can you place & rotate pads and components by punching in coordinates and angle numbers?

[KJDS]

It's quite incredible what he has achieved as a one man band. Sure, there are a few issues, but mostly it is excellent. Some of the issues people are complaining about are just getting used to the new (and better) way that it works I think. The benefits far outweigh the limitations though. Things like library management are a giant pain the arse in most CAD packages, but very easy in DEX.

But I would still like to see an answer to these simple questions:
1) can one symbol be used by multiple parts?
2) can one footprint be used by multiple parts?
3) can all layers be edited in a footprint (including solder mask and outline layer)?
4) can you place & rotate pads and components by punching in coordinates and angle numbers?

Number 2 of that list is the one that is critical to me. The rest, whilst useful I know I can work round.

[nctnico]

Editing all layers in a footprint is important as well. Having to change the soldermask, paste mask, add thermal vias, etc on a board with a bunch of Mosfets is a major PITA. In order to reduce the chance of errors it is crucial these things can be included in a footprint. This also drives the need to re-use footprints.
The same goes for the mechanical/outline layer. Every now and then I come across components which need a slotted pad. Nowadays many PCB houses will plate a slot when it has top & bottom copper around it.

[Bud]

Everything seemed to be going fine and suddenly he (once again) takes his toys and goes home. I don't get it.

Good riddance. The guy was mad.

[tautech]

Vincent had no intention to use the software, so it would have been like a job half done to follow everything until Vincent decides he has had enough, which was mention a couple of time throughout the post.

SO 
The enhancements as a result of FE's involvement will be a bonus for DEX and had that turned into an endorsement of DEX be FE  wouldn't that have been great.
FE gave his time freely for all our good, pointed Iliya to further material for improvement of DEX.

I do hope this development is on-going.

[Wytnucls]

It's quite incredible what he has achieved as a one man band. Sure, there are a few issues, but mostly it is excellent. Some of the issues people are complaining about are just getting used to the new (and better) way that it works I think. The benefits far outweigh the limitations though. Things like library management are a giant pain the arse in most CAD packages, but very easy in DEX.

But I would still like to see an answer to these simple questions:
1) can one symbol be used by multiple parts?
2) can one footprint be used by multiple parts?
3) can all layers be edited in a footprint (including solder mask and outline layer)?
4) can you place & rotate pads and components by punching in coordinates and angle numbers?

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes

[Dave Turner]

Whytnucis

You clearly understand DEX. Instead of just replying yes; perhaps you would post the methods which have escaped the understanding of others.

Sadly I cannot evaluate DEX as I no longer run in a Windows environment and to my knowledge there isn't a Linux build available.

[ozwolf]

AutoTRAX DEX has a YouTube channel with tons of great videos explaining a lot of this stuff.

Try this one "Creating a Power Mosfet Part".

I find by using the Layers command and clicking on the part, then use the Properties box to manipulate the specific property/layer has allowed me the control I've needed.

I'm still at rookie level, but happy with my progress with DEX.

Ozwolf

[Wytnucls]

No, I'm not here to spoon feed anybody who has a question about DEX. There is a DEX forum for that and plenty of tutorial material. Some opinionated people haven't even bothered to install the software and find things out by themselves. I learned some of DEX intricacies over many hours of trial and errors. That still doesn't make me a DEX expert and besides, I am clueless about any other PCB CAD program and how things are done in the industry.

[nctnico]

No, I'm not here to spoon feed anybody who has a question about DEX.

A simple 'yes' is sufficient for me. Thanks! 
The problem with a lot of CAD software is that it is hard to judge from just installing it and browsing through it quickly. You have to make at least two boards with a PCB package to see if it is up to the job or not. It helps a lot to have some information from other users about features you want.

[free_electron]

It's quite incredible what he has achieved as a one man band. Sure, there are a few issues, but mostly it is excellent. Some of the issues people are complaining about are just getting used to the new (and better) way that it works I think. The benefits far outweigh the limitations though. Things like library management are a giant pain the arse in most CAD packages, but very easy in DEX.

But I would still like to see an answer to these simple questions:
1) can one symbol be used by multiple parts?
2) can one footprint be used by multiple parts?
3) can all layers be edited in a footprint (including solder mask and outline layer)?
4) can you place & rotate pads and components by punching in coordinates and angle numbers?

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes

Did 1 and 2 get added recently ?
Last time i checked both symbol and footprint are stored in the same file so you cannot crosslink.