NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES

[David Hess]

When I read the original publication of this article in Aerospace and Defense Science, it convinced me that the SRB o-rings were not the cause of the Challenger disaster:

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/382045main_19%20-%2020090730.11.STS%20Problem%202003.pdf

I'll admit to not reading the whole thing, but in my opinion he greatly undermines his own argument by demonstrating that he does not understand how a bathroom scale works and why the reading overshoots (here's a clue; it doesn't on a modern electronic one that uses solid state sensors instead of springs, gears, and flywheels).

Modern electronic scales overshoot also, but suppress reading it.  Mechanical dampening is very difficult to add to a load cell based scale without compromising accuracy because travel distances are so short.  Hard stops are used to protect the load cell from physical damage but even with that, they are very susceptible to shock.

The first time I used an analog storage oscilloscope was to measure load cell overshoot as part of a weigh scale with the idea to dampen it electronically so that the final weight could be returned more quickly.

I feel that if the dynamic overshoot (if it indeed exists in the shuttle engine system) was of the magnitude that he claims, probably 50% or more of all shuttle flights would have ended in catastrophic structural failure.[/color][/size][/b]

The article mentions stuff, including a NASA slide, being broken or damaged mysteriously, including the launch tower, which was a motivation to stop releasing early when the strain was lower as originally intended.  This bending moment issue starts on page 33.  Like Darwin answering his critics, I think later revisions of this paper are less focused but they are what is easily available.

Feynman's report included SRB sections being severely bent out of shape but did not make any connection to a cause; he was more interested in how they were repairing and reusing sections that had yielded outside of the design specifications.  Having read both reports in detail, I got the feeling that data was withheld from him to lead him away from the bending moment issue.

[AVGresponding]

When I read the original publication of this article in Aerospace and Defense Science, it convinced me that the SRB o-rings were not the cause of the Challenger disaster:

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/382045main_19%20-%2020090730.11.STS%20Problem%202003.pdf

I'll admit to not reading the whole thing, but in my opinion he greatly undermines his own argument by demonstrating that he does not understand how a bathroom scale works and why the reading overshoots (here's a clue; it doesn't on a modern electronic one that uses solid state sensors instead of springs, gears, and flywheels).

Modern electronic scales overshoot also, but suppress reading it.  Mechanical dampening is very difficult to add to a load cell based scale without compromising accuracy because travel distances are so short.  Hard stops are used to protect the load cell from physical damage but even with that, they are very susceptible to shock.

The first time I used an analog storage oscilloscope was to measure load cell overshoot as part of a weigh scale with the idea to dampen it electronically so that the final weight could be returned more quickly.

I feel that if the dynamic overshoot (if it indeed exists in the shuttle engine system) was of the magnitude that he claims, probably 50% or more of all shuttle flights would have ended in catastrophic structural failure.[/color][/size][/b]

The article mentions stuff, including a NASA slide, being broken or damaged mysteriously, including the launch tower, which was a motivation to stop releasing early when the strain was lower as originally intended.  This bending moment issue starts on page 33.  Like Darwin answering his critics, I think later revisions of this paper are less focused but they are what is easily available.

Feynman's report included SRB sections being severely bent out of shape but did not make any connection to a cause; he was more interested in how they were repairing and reusing sections that had yielded outside of the design specifications.  Having read both reports in detail, I got the feeling that data was withheld from him to lead him away from the bending moment issue.

Well, while it's true that everything is springs, the reason you get large oscillations and overshoot on a bathroom scale (old type) is because when you add the load as he describes, it moves due to gravity until it reaches the point where the spring force equals the load, but then continues past due to momentum in all parts of the system. The starting position is not the same as the finishing position, by several millimetres at least, possibly as much as a centimetre. This makes the resonant frequency quite low and difficult to damp, and as you say, damping in a system designed to measure weight is problematic at best.

I'm surprised there is a noticeable overshoot in a solid state (piezo-electric crystal?) load sensor, as the movement due to spring compression in such must be absolutely tiny, in the micron range at a guess, so the resonant frequency will be much higher and self-damped much more. My electronic bathroom scale settles immediately, no overshoot, I think it gives about 1 reading per second or so. Certainly an old spring scale would take several seconds to settle.

As for the deformation of the SRB bodies, I doubt it would be easy to prove it wasn't from impacting the sea when they are dropped when empty.

Moving to stop from releasing early at launch makes me think more that the dynamic overshoot was actually less than anticipated...

[eti]

I wouldn't be concerned about artificial "intelligence" being all that "intelligent" - it's a daydream thrust down our throats by futurists, and the professionally delusional.
Amazon Alexa struggles to answer BASIC questions, such as "How long is the movie 'Forbidden Planet'?" telling me "Sorry, I don't have an answer for that" - DUH. Amazon use "According to an 'Alexa Answers' user" or "According to Wikipedia..." (so it MUST be true, then... LOL) as sources for "facts"... so not a lot of "intelligence" going on at a HUMAN level, and it's the HUMANS that design and maintain this mediocre digital amusement park.
Don't fret, AI is NOTHING, and it's not gonna "take over the world". It's about as likely to be sentient, or even APPROACH the ability to act like it, as a digestive biscuit is likely to tap dance.

[PlainName]

Don't fret, AI is NOTHING, and it's not gonna "take over the world".

The problem is that this broken AI is taking over the world. If it were decent AI there would be less of a problem. Already it is being used to (a simple thing everyone understands) triage frontline support - think Amazon, all those web pages with WeChat, etc. Behind the scenes if you need benefits the chances are some AI is going to do the "Computer says 'NO'" thing, not an actual person. At least, not one that cares.

[AVGresponding]

Don't fret, AI is NOTHING, and it's not gonna "take over the world".

The problem is that this broken AI is taking over the world. If it were decent AI there would be less of a problem. Already it is being used to (a simple thing everyone understands) triage frontline support - think Amazon, all those web pages with WeChat, etc. Behind the scenes if you need benefits the chances are some AI is going to do the "Computer says 'NO'" thing, not an actual person. At least, not one that cares.

Indeed, it's the software equivalent of the "jobsworth", an administrator with no real vested interest in the end result, just in following the process.

[MrMobodies]

I wouldn't be concerned about artificial "intelligence" being all that "intelligent" - it's a daydream thrust down our throats by futurists, and the professionally delusional.

Yes I read in Britain they were thinking about it for motorists leaving it at the mercy of the insurance companies instead of the driver for accidents.

I wonder, is the word "CLOUD" being used as a smokescreen to disguise the understanding and real namas of things, like clustering - a group of machines set to work together to either backup or share the workload and mass shared storage.

[David Hess]

I wonder, is the word "CLOUD" being used as a smokescreen to disguise the understanding and real namas of things, like clustering - a group of machines set to work together to either backup or share the workload and mass shared storage.

I understand "CLOUD" to mean "Someone else's computer" and that seems to work, but they sure do not advertise it that way.

[xrunner]

Yes I read in Britain they were thinking about it for motorists leaving it at the mercy of the insurance companies instead of the driver for accidents.

I wonder, is the word "CLOUD" being used as a smokescreen to disguise the understanding and real namas of things, like clustering - a group of machines set to work together to either backup or share the workload and mass shared storage.

I help my older neighbor with their computer problems. They recently got a new laptop and wanted to know how to get their gmail emails over to it. I told them they didn't have to be "moved" to another computer they were on the cloud. They didn't know what that meant.

[cdev]

Thats exactly the kind of "customer" they want, the dumb kind.

Its like an old GF used to say.. A Dumb fuck, is the best fuck..

Today the NYT is talking about using smart technologies to make nursing homes profitable again. (Wages too high are killing them, or so they say)..

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/realestate/nursing-home-robots.html

[SilverSolder]

[...]

Its like an old GF used to say.. A Dumb fuck, is the best fuck..

[...]

Hopefully you didn't take it personally! 

[cdev]

 

[MrMobodies]

I told them they didn't have to be "moved" to another computer they were on the cloud. They didn't know what that meant.

I wouldn't that understand too if I didn't know what was behind it.

I would understand myself: "They're stored remotely by your email provider that (receives and sends out the email messages) but can be downloaded on your computer too as a backup if you wanted. "

"You could also set depending on provider to download the email messages to your computer without them being remotely stored forever, once you receive them and they get removed depending on the amount of days set to keep emails that have been marked as read." There is a risk of them being lost so you better have a backup drive to copy them.

An installer a month ago told me, it's all "apps" and "cloud", you join it to your "wifi"(one out the two inverters), create an account, sign in, download an app, sign into that... for remote firmware updates/datalogging/diagnostics of the solar panel inverter  before I told him NO!... I don''t want that, I want it standalone, I don't want no wifi signal coming from it, no internet connectivity. I want it left alone If it is not in house then I don't want it. It has to function regardless of what goes on out there.

[xrunner]

An installer a month ago told me, it's all "apps" and "cloud", you join it to your "wifi"(one out the two inverters), create an account, sign in, download an app, sign into that... for remote firmware updates/datalogging/diagnostics of the solar panel inverter  before I told him NO!... I don''t want that, I want it standalone, I don't want no wifi signal coming from it, no internet connectivity. I want it left alone If it is not in house then I don't want it. It has to function regardless of what goes on out there.

Did he tell you it works kinda like Insteon? 

Run away ... 

[SiliconWizard]

Thats exactly the kind of "customer" they want, the dumb kind.

Yes. Dumb or very obedient. Often both are tightly coupled though.

Its like an old GF used to say.. A Dumb fuck, is the best fuck..

 

Today the NYT is talking about using smart technologies to make nursing homes profitable again. (Wages too high are killing them, or so they say)..

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/realestate/nursing-home-robots.html

Of course. And hugging robots.
Of course there's always gonna be a "good" reason. "Good" thing here they admit this is for profitability. The usual sneaky talk is to claim huge benefits for the end user.
Mooooooo. =)

[cdev]

Of helping the Third World's rich kids with jobs.. to broker skimming off huge profits..

[MrMobodies]

Of helping the Third World's rich kids with jobs.. to broker skimming off huge profits..

Joke: Could it be that Rob Lilliness was unwilling to release the means of control of the Insteon devices to the customers because either him or some broker wanted to preserve their rights to it and maybe waiting to sue some other company or big maker attempting to provide support for it?

[HobGoblyn]

A couple of weeks ago I was after a pressure washer.

While looking, I found that Karcher actually do a smart pressure washer

I can understand a few people liking a smart fridge (although not for me), but a smart pressure washer?

[SiliconWizard]

Ahah, and do they tell you about their app collecting data about what you do with your washer?

But that is to better serve you, right? (Which means: to better serve them, in Doublespeak.)

[PlainName]

I can understand a few people liking a smart fridge (although not for me), but a smart pressure washer?

A puzzle, isn't it? If you're actually holding the thing and the control are actually in your hand, why would you want to put that all down in order to dick around with your phone? The only scenario I can envision is some kind of practical joke, and you surely wouldn't want to do that with a high pressure stream.

[Ranayna]

The last thing i would have in my hand (or even just my pockets) while pressure washing is my smartphone.
Pressure washing is messy, the phone is bound to get wet.

My bet would be: The next iteration of that "smart" washer will only have barebones controls, if even any beyond on/off, on the washer itself. Buttons are expensive, and if you can slurp the users data, even better.

[PlainName]

Yes, I was thinking... surely someone will realise the problem and figure the solution is to remove the local controls.

[SilverSolder]

A couple of weeks ago I was after a pressure washer.

While looking, I found that Karcher actually do a smart pressure washer

I can understand a few people liking a smart fridge (although not for me), but a smart pressure washer?

LOL the sad part is that anyone would buy these.

And no sign of any shortages for products like this...   sadly!

[MrMobodies]

I predict my next shopping trip for household appliances will be looking for devices that'd don't emit a wifi/bluetooth signal and whether they can be switched off.

I can imagine being  told: "well the manufacturers didn't go to all that effort into putting all this stuff in there for you not to use it."

"Supply and demand" never made sense to me in the order the words are put in but with the arrangement above now it does.

They supply it and they demand that you eat it.

[SiliconWizard]

(...)
And no sign of any shortages for products like this...   sadly!

Indeed. But how come?

[PlainName]

(...)
And no sign of any shortages for products like this...   sadly!

Indeed. But how come?

The middle of the bell curve for demand wants them. People like MrNobodies above are down on the plains and lost in the noise.

The riff-raff probably didn't know they wanted it until they saw it,  but shiny-shiny, blue LEDs, and there's your demand popped into existence.