BUYER BEWARE! Fake Chinese "Intel 82599ES X520-DA2" Network Cards

[Halcyon]

I don't see why that's hilarious at all?

Thinking someone with the capacity to create a fake, functional 10GigE card which performs packet capture and analysis to collect data would use eBay as a method of distribution, is hilarious. And if they did create such a card to slip into the supply chain of real targets, that they'd be so sloppy as to remove logos (oohhh, but the copyright!) and otherwise provide clear external indication of a difference between the genuine article and their spyware, while going to all the effort of using the same silkscreen font, component identifiers, and locations, is rather amusing also..

The most likely explanation is these are from an excess production run of a revision you're not familiar with - probably because they swapped up to a newer chipset instead of using these cards.

Maybe, maybe not. The point is, I can't definitively say who manufactured those cards nor can I be certain of their origin.

Why risk it? I think it's safer to make an informed decision than to just put up with it and hope for the best. That's just my personal way of thinking.

At the end of the day, I didn't get the product I ordered. I was willing to accept the negligible risk of a used, genuine card but I was absolutely not going to accept the risk by using one of dubious origin or authenticity. I think that's fair?

[wraper]

As I also mentioned, there was more than just the lack of Intel markings. All these small things didn't sit right with me and history says, my gut instinct is usually right, so I went with that.

Really? Unless I'm blind, something does not add up with this statement. And if you did some actual research, you would notice there is zero difference with cards containing intel logo, even same brand inductors were used. Even when compared with picture of genuine card from the genuine vs fake link you provided, it's 100% the same as genuine .
EDIT: heatsink has small difference. EDIT2: But then when compared to graphics cards, reference boards are often soldered at the same factory for Nvidia, then each brand slaps their own heatsink.



Your card:

[Monkeh]

At the end of the day, I didn't get the product I ordered.

.. And did the listing claim it was an Intel retail card, or did you just see a photo with an Intel logo on it and assume every single functionally identical card produced over the last 10 years by different fabs for different customers would have such?

[Halcyon]

As I also mentioned, there was more than just the lack of Intel markings. All these small things didn't sit right with me and history says, my gut instinct is usually right, so I went with that.

Really? Unless I'm blind, something does not add up with this statement. And if you did some actual research, you would notice there is zero difference with cards containing intel logo, even same brand inductors were used. Even when compared with picture of genuine card from the genuine vs fake link you provided, it's 100% the same as genuine .

Are you kidding me with this? You post a photo of a seemingly identical card and you expect me (and others) to simply take your advice?

You're an idiot. Of course I did my reasearch and no I'm not blind. I also don't take advice blindly from belters on internet forums without some independant research to either support or dispute my findings.

At the end of the day, I didn't get the product I ordered.

.. And did the listing claim it was an Intel retail card, or did you just see a photo with an Intel logo on it and assume every single functionally identical card produced over the last 10 years by different fabs for different customers would have such?

Yes, they purported to be a genuine Intel card. I understand how different revisions and fabs work.

Why are you both critising me on my descision? I explained WHY I came to the conclusion I did, whether it was right or wrong, I wasn't willing to accept the risk. I still think too many things about them didn't add up. Unless you have something constructive to add, I'm done.

Yes I could have done further testing, but I chose not to on the balance of probabilities. I initiated a case to get a significant sum of money back. That was the right decision to make, in my opinion, on this occasion. You might have viewed or done things differently and that's totally acceptable too.

[Monkeh]

Are you kidding me with this? You post a photo of a seemingly identical card and you expect me (and others) to simply take your advice?

I could throw that straight back at you, and at the post you linked to.

[thm_w]

Lets not do personal attacks.

Nope, it isn't hard to tell. You cannot simply scrub silkscreen from solder mask without leaving some very noticeable signs of abuse. Solvent won't help removing it without solder resist damage.

You could solvent -> reapply solder mask. But yeah the sviko photos are clear enough to see there is no scratching in that area. So they are some kind of second shift build.

[wraper]

Why are you both critising me on my descision? I explained WHY I came to the conclusion I did, whether it was right or wrong, I wasn't willing to accept the risk. I still think too many things about them didn't add up. Unless you have something constructive to add, I'm done.

You shut down ebay listing with what appears to be a perfectly good card. Heck, when I was selling raspberry pi on ebay, I would be pretty annoyed if someone shut down my listing because they received a board which looked slightly different, because many of them were slightly different. Not to say you gave negative feedback. Literally calling them selling fake.

Listing was deceptive. Supplied fake Chinese parts instead of genuine Intel card

[Mr. Scram]

Something similar seems to have been happening with other Intel NICs, though the fakes can often be incredibly good and bear all the right markings. It's to the point you're not even sure what are actually fakes, although a lot of failures after a few months are reported. It's annoying as it pretty much negates the reason to opt for these cards known for their bullet proof performance. If you're getting questionable junk you're better off buying a cheap brand new NIC.

[Halcyon]

You shut down ebay listing with what appears to be a perfectly good card. Heck, when I was selling raspberry pi on ebay, I would be pretty annoyed if someone shut down my listing because they received a board which looked slightly different, because many of them were slightly different. Not to say you gave negative feedback. Literally calling them selling fake.

Listing was deceptive. Supplied fake Chinese parts instead of genuine Intel card

That's your opinion. I'll already repeat that the seller at no point disputed this in any communications. Nor did they response to my negative feedback claiming that I was lying. They also reworded their other listings for similar cards. That suggests to me they are knowingly being misleading.

Also, that photo you posted could have come from anywhere. If you have a look at Intel's own product brief, it shows a card with several but subtle differences. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/network-io/ethernet/network-adapters/ethernet-x520-server-adapters-brief.html

The genuine cards I have at home are quite different. You know as well as I do, some fakes look pretty convincing and some of the crap coming out of China looks real (not just NICs but technology and products in general).

Without doing further indepth analysis on the cards the seller is listing, it's impossible to come to a 100% definitive answer. Feel free to buy one and knock yourself out. But as I said, based on my experience and observations, what I received appeared to be replicas. My biggest concern was the heatsink, it didn't look like the usual Intel quality and was held together with some crappy clips. There are reports of fake Intel cards with the exact same design overheating and failing. This is not something I wanted to risk as 10 Gig cards do get quite warm.

I stand by my decision and I felt it was the right one. You might have done things differently, but that doesn't make other people incorrect.

[james_s]

Maybe, maybe not. The point is, I can't definitively say who manufactured those cards nor can I be certain of their origin.

Why risk it? I think it's safer to make an informed decision than to just put up with it and hope for the best. That's just my personal way of thinking.

At the end of the day, I didn't get the product I ordered. I was willing to accept the negligible risk of a used, genuine card but I was absolutely not going to accept the risk by using one of dubious origin or authenticity. I think that's fair?

Safer in what way? Are you using these in some kind of mission critical medical or aerospace application? What's the worst that could happen if one fails? How do you know one with an Intel logo on it won't fail? How do you know if one with a logo on it is genuine?

IMO these look totally legit to me, they're *way* too nicely made to be cheap knockoffs. They're OEM cards of a different revision than you're familiar with. At the last hardware company I worked we typically made 4 or 5 different revisions of a product throughout the lifecycle. Same model number, same front panel but we'd use a different RAM chip, a different WiFi chipset, a different power supply, etc. The PCB layout was different, often smaller, the solder mask color was sometimes slightly different, logos were moved around or changed. They were all genuine of course but you could have several different devices that all looked noticeably different inside.

The seller should have used a picture of the exact cards being sold, that's the only thing I can fault them for. You don't seem interested in trying to definitively prove the cards to be fake or defective in some way, you've already decided you don't trust them. The only honest thing to do if you got a refund is return them to the seller.

[Halcyon]

Maybe, maybe not. The point is, I can't definitively say who manufactured those cards nor can I be certain of their origin.

Why risk it? I think it's safer to make an informed decision than to just put up with it and hope for the best. That's just my personal way of thinking.

At the end of the day, I didn't get the product I ordered. I was willing to accept the negligible risk of a used, genuine card but I was absolutely not going to accept the risk by using one of dubious origin or authenticity. I think that's fair?

Safer in what way? Are you using these in some kind of mission critical medical or aerospace application? What's the worst that could happen if one fails? How do you know one with an Intel logo on it won't fail? How do you know if one with a logo on it is genuine?

IMO these look totally legit to me, they're *way* too nicely made to be cheap knockoffs. They're OEM cards of a different revision than you're familiar with. At the last hardware company I worked we typically made 4 or 5 different revisions of a product throughout the lifecycle. Same model number, same front panel but we'd use a different RAM chip, a different WiFi chipset, a different power supply, etc. The PCB layout was different, often smaller, the solder mask color was sometimes slightly different, logos were moved around or changed. They were all genuine of course but you could have several different devices that all looked noticeably different inside.

The seller should have used a picture of the exact cards being sold, that's the only thing I can fault them for. You don't seem interested in trying to definitively prove the cards to be fake or defective in some way, you've already decided you don't trust them. The only honest thing to do if you got a refund is return them to the seller.

No, as already stated I was using them at home. You took the word "safer" too literally. I questioned the authenticity of the cards and I made an assessment based on what I had in front of me, my experience and what I knew of this particular model card.

What's the worst that could happen? I lose hundreds of dollars and end up with a bunch of dead cards.
How do I know the fake card wouldn't fail? I don't. I never used them.
How do I know the ones I have are genuine? Because they came from a reputable company that I trust with a tax invoice and all of the concerns I had with the previous cards were not evident on my current lot.

I will admit that they fake cards don't look bad. I've seen far worse and I spent quite a while second-guessing myself and doing some research. And yep, maybe you are right, they could be a different revision. But even if that was true, the heatsink assembly on my current cards is much more solid and fixed to the PCB with better push clips. No to mention the complete lack of any OEM part numbers anywhere, which is unlike Dell, IBM or Lenovo.

It also doesn't negate the sellers suspect responses and behavior. Even now, they have cards listed where they have deliberately blurred out the Intel logo in the photos, why? As I said right from the start before people jumped down my throat, it wasn't just one or two things I suspected, it was a number of different things which didn't sit right with me. Why would I take the risk?

None of the suspicious I have raised would be enough to be concerned about by themselves, but together they start to paint a fairly negative picture. You guys are basing your opinion off one photo, I had the cards in my hand and I had serious doubts.
Yes, you're right, I'm not interested in proving that the cards are fake. I no longer possess them, they were returned to the seller. What more do you want me to do?

I would have loved them to be genuine, it would have saved me the hassle of a return and seeking a refund.

[Haenk]

they're *way* too nicely made to be cheap knockoffs

Not only that, but I'd say it is impossible to recreate a multilayer PCB of this complexity, looking exactly the same, every thruhole at the exactly same location.
This leaves only (2) 3 options:
- genuine OEM
- unauthorized production run
- "hostile takeover" (aka theft) of the product design

point (3) is unlikely, as the components are still expensive and the market is so small
point (2) is possible, there are reports of duplicate MACs it seems, that could be a manufacturing issue though

[Halcyon]

Not only that, but I'd say it is impossible to recreate a multilayer PCB of this complexity, looking exactly the same, every thruhole at the exactly same location.
This leaves only (2) 3 options:
- genuine OEM
- unauthorized production run
- "hostile takeover" (aka theft) of the product design

point (3) is unlikely, as the components are still expensive and the market is so small
point (2) is possible, there are reports of duplicate MACs it seems, that could be a manufacturing issue though

The components weren't in exactly the same location at all. Ignore the photo wraper posted, he probably just grabbed that off Google images somewhere because it suited his argument. I mentioned from the very start the the cards looked different in several ways to what I've seen in both OEM and retail versions of Intel NICs over the years. Had they have looked like the photos in the original listing, I probably wouldn't have even thought to second-guess it. Fake Intel cards have been doing the rounds for a long time on sites like ebay and they are well documented.

Just for shits and giggles, I just went and lifted the lid on some of the Dell PE R710 servers we decommissioned. All of the add-on 10 Gbit NICs (which were installed by Dell) have Intel logos. As I also mentioned, the cards for that particular model on Intel's website look different.

Does all this mean the cards that I returned are 110% irrefutably fake? No, absolutely not. But as I have repeated, there were too many inconsistancies to simply ignore and chop it up to a different revision. Had the seller come back to me and said "There are OEMs from bla" no problems, it would give me another lead to investigate. But when I bluntly advised them that I believe them to be fake, to come back with "just test them anyway" is a bullshit response.

It seems like some people are critising me for using my brain and questioning things rather than blindly accepting them, all based off some forum posts and a single photo.

[OwO]

More like you shouldn't have bought from ebay if it being "genuine" is important to you, as opposed to just getting something that functions the same as the original.

[Halcyon]

More like you shouldn't have bought from ebay if it being "genuine" is important to you, as opposed to just getting something that functions the same as the original.

I gave my reasons for doing this. If you would like to donate AUD$2000, I'll go and buy some brand new ones from my supplier, it would be greatly appreciated!

Selling on ebay doesn't excuse people for trying to pass off fake products as genuine. I don't accept your logic that just because it was purchased on ebay, then I should just wear it.

EDIT: In fact, this thread has spiralled out of control with what started off as constructive, to basically critisicing some very valid evidence-based decisions. I'm recommending it be locked. Those who read it can make up their own minds based on what has been provided already.

[gnif]

Agreed, and locked