Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[PlainName]

I think most people are aware that face coverings are to protect others, rather than the wearer.

Well, no. The issues arise because they don't realise that.

Medical professionals don't wear surgical masks to protect themselves, but their patients.

Yes, indeed, but my point was that people don't realise that, thus they must be protection for the wearer.

[Zero999]

I think most people are aware that face coverings are to protect others, rather than the wearer.

Well, no. The issues arise because they don't realise that.

Medical professionals don't wear surgical masks to protect themselves, but their patients.

Yes, indeed, but my point was that people don't realise that, thus they must be protection for the wearer.

I don't think either of us can really speak for most people, because from our perspective, who most people are, will depend on who we are around most of the time. Opinion polls and questionnaires are better sources of information about what most people think, but are still not perfect.

Assuming you're right that most people think masks are mostly to protect the wearer, how is that a bad thing? If it encourages people to wear them and they help stop the spread, it's still a good thing.

[PlainName]

Assuming you're right that most people think masks are mostly to protect the wearer, how is that a bad thing?

Because then you get people feeling fully justified in saying they're prepared to risk catching whatever because they just don't like masks, can't breathe, makes them look girly, whatever.

[Syntax Error]

Put simply, if you use public transport, you'll realise just how disgusting your fellow travellers are. Oi mate, do you really need to lower your face mask, lick your sticky fingers and then hold the strap? What, because that's what you always did before you had to wear a facemask?

Wearing gloves and using hand sanitiser is recommended at the best of times. Face masks will not only make you a good citizen, but protect you from the morons who still don't or, just cannot be bothered to get it.

What is more worrying is that public transport operators are now sanitising their fleets to keep them safe... so what the hell were they doing before coronavirus? I already know the answer

[SilverSolder]

Put simply, if you use public transport, you'll realise just how disgusting your fellow travellers are. Oi mate, do you really need to lower your face mask, lick your sticky fingers and then hold the strap? What, because that's what you always did before you had to wear a facemask?

Wearing gloves and using hand sanitiser is recommended at the best of times. Face masks will not only make you a good citizen, but protect you from the morons who still don't or, just cannot be bothered to get it.

What is more worrying is that public transport operators are now sanitising their fleets to keep them safe... so what the hell were they doing before coronavirus? I already know the answer

They were "saving money" by not cleaning anything. 

[coppice]

What is more worrying is that public transport operators are now sanitising their fleets to keep them safe... so what the hell were they doing before coronavirus?

If you want to know what 10 years of accumulated grime minus 10 years of the cleaning effect of just using something, and rubbing away the grime, looks like, look at a 10 year old bus that hasn't been used since February.

[Syntax Error]

What is more worrying is that public transport operators are now sanitising their fleets to keep them safe... so what the hell were they doing before coronavirus?

If you want to know what 10 years of accumulated grime minus 10 years of the cleaning effect of just using something, and rubbing away the grime, looks like, look at a 10 year old bus that hasn't been used since February.

I can smell the mould... are those mushrooms growing on the back seat?

An issue with socially distanced seating is people are being forced to sit in the same seat as everyone else... Just use the car.

[Zero999]

Assuming you're right that most people think masks are mostly to protect the wearer, how is that a bad thing?

Because then you get people feeling fully justified in saying they're prepared to risk catching whatever because they just don't like masks, can't breathe, makes them look girly, whatever.

I was nieve. I didn't think people could be that stupid. Even so, any fool should be able to see that if they catch it, they'll probably be fine, but the poor old sod they infect might not be so lucky. Unfortunately we need to have laws to protect people from their own stupidity: seatbelts being a prime example.

What is more worrying is that public transport operators are now sanitising their fleets to keep them safe... so what the hell were they doing before coronavirus?

If you want to know what 10 years of accumulated grime minus 10 years of the cleaning effect of just using something, and rubbing away the grime, looks like, look at a 10 year old bus that hasn't been used since February.

When I was child I took the bus to school. Before I got off, many of my peers would whack the bus seats, which would fill the bus with dust, smelling of vomit and stale cigarette smoke. I remember the driver complaining on one occasion and a child told him to clean the bloody bus, if he didn't like it.

What is more worrying is that public transport operators are now sanitising their fleets to keep them safe... so what the hell were they doing before coronavirus?

If you want to know what 10 years of accumulated grime minus 10 years of the cleaning effect of just using something, and rubbing away the grime, looks like, look at a 10 year old bus that hasn't been used since February.

I can smell the mould... are those mushrooms growing on the back seat?

An issue with socially distanced seating is people are being forced to sit in the same seat as everyone else... Just use the car.

The school bus used to have a thick layer of mould growing on the rubber window seals, which weren't replaced, when they perished. My brother and sister used to play corners which involved moving next to the window, when the bus went round a corner. One day a window fell out. Fortunately no one was hurt, especially as this was on the top deck.

[coppice]

The school bus used to have a thick layer of mould growing on the rubber window seals, which weren't replaced, when they perished. My brother and sister used to play corners which involved moving next to the window, when the bus went round a corner. One day a window fell out. Fortunately no one was hurt, especially as this was on the top deck.

This is British school buildings and equipment in a nutshell. They spend lots acquiring and building them, but think they need no budget for upkeep.

[PlainName]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

Yes, it's bollocks:

https://www.insider.com/face-shields-did-not-protect-people-from-coronavirus-swiss-outbreak-2020-7

A health department in Switzerland is now warning against wearing plastic face shields without a mask after a recent outbreak in which those wearing only shields were infected with coronavirus, while people wearing masks were fine.

[themadhippy]

Just use the car.

And those who cant  drive due to medical  or financial reasons ?

[Zero999]

should wear a visor, which provides more COVID-19 protection than a surgical mask

I noticed that many people wear these visors instead of masks, often at an angle such that it barely comes level with their chin, and wonder how on earth that's providing any protection for the wearer or whoever they are projectile-breathing at. Can you explain?

Yes, it's bollocks:

https://www.insider.com/face-shields-did-not-protect-people-from-coronavirus-swiss-outbreak-2020-7

A health department in Switzerland is now warning against wearing plastic face shields without a mask after a recent outbreak in which those wearing only shields were infected with coronavirus, while people wearing masks were fine.

Oh, so it looks like visors don't provide as much protection as I origionally thought. It also implies masks provide more protection for the wearer, than I thought too. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong about this.

I'll wear both a mask and visor then. Actually I think I'll skip the visor and wear some goggles, which will easilly fit in my bag.

I wonder if a scarf wrapped round the neck, to fill the gap around the visor would have helped? It might be more comfortable, than a face covering and offer a similar level of protection.

[coppice]

Oh, so it looks like visors don't provide as much protection as I origionally thought. It also implies masks provide more protection for the wearer, than I thought too. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong about this.

Visors provide a high degree of protection, but not from breath. Dentists have been wearing them since AIDS first appeared, to catch spray from working on a patient's mouth. When you look at the amount of spray they catch, its surprising dentists didn't always wear these things just to keep clean. Nurses and other medical people have been wearing them for years, because again they are at risk from spray coming from patients during procedures.

[maginnovision]

I wonder if motorcycle helmets are an acceptable face covering? Shops have tended to deny those wearing them entry, for security reasons, but a helmet, with screen and visor, will provide good protection both against spreading and contracting COVID-19, so should be acceptable.

We already have mask laws here and the couple of times I've been places I haven't taken my helmet(with chin curtain installed) off and I haven't had any problems. Nobody says anything. However, when I took a walk with my kids without a mask(it was an impromptu walk when we were already playing outside our home) I walked by the police station and parked police cars with police inside and nobody said anything then either. I guess it depends on how strongly enforced it all is. If they go full authoritarian you'll probably need a mask with your head isolated in a helmet.

It might also depend on the situation. There's little point in wearing a mask outside, unless it's crowded, but it's more important indoors. I don't wear one outside and the law which is going to come into force at the end of the week, in the UK, will only apply to shops. If mask wearing outdoors, as well as indoors, is compulsory where you live, they're probably less likely to enforce it outside, especially if you're not in a crowd.

I was actually indoors. One time I had to get some brake fluid from the auto parts store, one time I had to get kids tylenol from the pharmacy, and another I had to go to the grocery store I don't even remember what I got. The rest of the times I was going to the bank.

I actually think an R\N95 mask and safety glasses with a foam gasket(often used with motorcycles so your eyes don't dry out) are pretty reasonable protection assuming you don't go home, take your stuff off, and pick your nose or teeth. Of course you can't buy those masks right now(around here anyway). I just hope we can get through this before I lose my house.

[PlainName]

Actually I think I'll skip the visor and wear some goggles

That would get my vote too since, as you say, they are more easily stored and carried.

I wonder if a scarf wrapped round the neck

My understanding is it depends. Typically, no, because you want more than one layer and each layer to be a different weave. Ideally with a non-woven layer sandwiched, too.

[Zero999]

Oh, so it looks like visors don't provide as much protection as I origionally thought. It also implies masks provide more protection for the wearer, than I thought too. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong about this.

Visors provide a high degree of protection, but not from breath. Dentists have been wearing them since AIDS first appeared, to catch spray from working on a patient's mouth. When you look at the amount of spray they catch, its surprising dentists didn't always wear these things just to keep clean. Nurses and other medical people have been wearing them for years, because again they are at risk from spray coming from patients during procedures.

Yes that's all true and whether a visor protects against COVID-19 or not, depends on the main mode of transmission, which I thought was droplets, in the form of spray from coughs, sneezes and when people are talking, but if it's air-bourn, it won't do much. Unfortunately it's becoming more likely the main mode of transmission is air-bourn, hence why visors don't help much.

I don't know why dentists wore visors to protect against HIV, which is not transmitted by spray, or was that in the early days, when not much was known about it? The last time I saw my dentist, they didn't wear a visor, just a mask, but it was before the COVID-19 was known to be present in the UK. I'd imagine that's changed since.

[maginnovision]

My wife was just told by her CEO that they're letting go of ~85% of their employees. They've all been working from home and I think they find out at the end of the month.

[tom66]

Oh, so it looks like visors don't provide as much protection as I origionally thought. It also implies masks provide more protection for the wearer, than I thought too. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong about this.

Visors provide a high degree of protection, but not from breath. Dentists have been wearing them since AIDS first appeared, to catch spray from working on a patient's mouth. When you look at the amount of spray they catch, its surprising dentists didn't always wear these things just to keep clean. Nurses and other medical people have been wearing them for years, because again they are at risk from spray coming from patients during procedures.

Every dentist I have ever been to has worn a face shield during any procedure that produces aerosols - like drilling.

[EEVblog]

My wife was just told by her CEO that they're letting go of ~85% of their employees. They've all been working from home and I think they find out at the end of the month.

What industry?

[Zero999]

Oh, so it looks like visors don't provide as much protection as I origionally thought. It also implies masks provide more protection for the wearer, than I thought too. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong about this.

Visors provide a high degree of protection, but not from breath. Dentists have been wearing them since AIDS first appeared, to catch spray from working on a patient's mouth. When you look at the amount of spray they catch, its surprising dentists didn't always wear these things just to keep clean. Nurses and other medical people have been wearing them for years, because again they are at risk from spray coming from patients during procedures.

Every dentist I have ever been to has worn a face shield during any procedure that produces aerosols - like drilling.

I've never had my teeth drilled before, so that would explain why I've not seen a dentist wear a visor.

My wife was just told by her CEO that they're letting go of ~85% of their employees. They've all been working from home and I think they find out at the end of the month.

What does she do and how has her job been impacted by the pandemic?

I think if we have a long term recession, it will be due to trade barriers, rather than the pandemic.

[maginnovision]

My wife was just told by her CEO that they're letting go of ~85% of their employees. They've all been working from home and I think they find out at the end of the month.

What industry?

Entertainment in Hollywood(Movies and TV both foreign and domestic). They're almost entirely unable to get things done right now due to California going into shutdown #2. The original paycheck protection plan was the only reason it took this long. It would probably be a total closure if it weren't for some states still trying to get things done although the work is very minimal. I personally suspect that if the CEO didn't have other businesses they would've closed completely but this was his first business and he probably doesn't want to see it be another covid death.

My wife is pretty upset because some people she knew had significant life events coming up(weddings, kids, etc...) And this will definitely put a damper on all of that.

[SilverSolder]

My wife was just told by her CEO that they're letting go of ~85% of their employees. They've all been working from home and I think they find out at the end of the month.

What industry?

Entertainment in Hollywood(Movies and TV both foreign and domestic). They're almost entirely unable to get things done right now due to California going into shutdown #2. The original paycheck protection plan was the only reason it took this long. It would probably be a total closure if it weren't for some states still trying to get things done although the work is very minimal. I personally suspect that if the CEO didn't have other businesses they would've closed completely but this was his first business and he probably doesn't want to see it be another covid death.

My wife is pretty upset because some people she knew had significant life events coming up(weddings, kids, etc...) And this will definitely put a damper on all of that.

Sucks! 

Apparently California just today passed New York as the state with the highest number of Covid19 cases.  Exponential functions are a b!tch...

[tom66]

The USA really is a bizarre test case for what happens when you basically stick your fingers in your ears for several months and pretend COVID is not a thing.  Whaddya know, cases climb even faster.

I think the sad thing is if they had locked down really hard for 2-3 months instead of the weak-willed lockdown where some states still had bars and restaurants open, they would have been in a situation similar to the UK, and would be cautiously reopening with screening at the borders and social distancing/mask requirements.

But now they've turned into one of a few countries in the world, that every other country wants to ban tourism and visits to.

[maginnovision]

My wife was just told by her CEO that they're letting go of ~85% of their employees. They've all been working from home and I think they find out at the end of the month.

What industry?

Entertainment in Hollywood(Movies and TV both foreign and domestic). They're almost entirely unable to get things done right now due to California going into shutdown #2. The original paycheck protection plan was the only reason it took this long. It would probably be a total closure if it weren't for some states still trying to get things done although the work is very minimal. I personally suspect that if the CEO didn't have other businesses they would've closed completely but this was his first business and he probably doesn't want to see it be another covid death.

My wife is pretty upset because some people she knew had significant life events coming up(weddings, kids, etc...) And this will definitely put a damper on all of that.

Sucks! 

Apparently California just today passed New York as the state with the highest number of Covid19 cases.  Exponential functions are a b!tch...

Yea, CA is pretty big. I've talked about this here before but in LA we've basically never left lockdown since March(I could be wrong I was stuck in bed for 2 months  starting mar 17) but lots of other counties have including most around LA. There is also an issue that even if they were to hard enforce lockdowns we literally don't have enough police to manage it. Even worse I also got work through her company. The manufacturing companies I work with are mostly holding off on anything non critical too.

One shop laid off 50% of their techs(the Indies I work with are holding on so far) most manufacturing companies have cut most or all temps(varies but still a significant number of people) to manage social distancing and costs. CA is probably going to be in trouble come the next year, we're going to have a massive deficit.

I forgot to mention Disneyland. They brought a ton of people back in anticipation of a "reopening"(the plans were bad even if the lockdown didn't return) that never happened and they aren't getting rid of them again. Park is a money pit right now.

[SilverSolder]

My wife was just told by her CEO that they're letting go of ~85% of their employees. They've all been working from home and I think they find out at the end of the month.

What industry?

Entertainment in Hollywood(Movies and TV both foreign and domestic). They're almost entirely unable to get things done right now due to California going into shutdown #2. The original paycheck protection plan was the only reason it took this long. It would probably be a total closure if it weren't for some states still trying to get things done although the work is very minimal. I personally suspect that if the CEO didn't have other businesses they would've closed completely but this was his first business and he probably doesn't want to see it be another covid death.

My wife is pretty upset because some people she knew had significant life events coming up(weddings, kids, etc...) And this will definitely put a damper on all of that.

Sucks! 

Apparently California just today passed New York as the state with the highest number of Covid19 cases.  Exponential functions are a b!tch...

Yea, CA is pretty big. I've talked about this here before but in LA we've basically never left lockdown since March(I could be wrong I was stuck in bed for 2 months  starting mar 17) but lots of other counties have including most around LA. There is also an issue that even if they were to hard enforce lockdowns we literally don't have enough police to manage it. Even worse I also got work through her company. The manufacturing companies I work with are mostly holding off on anything non critical too.

One shop laid off 50% of their techs(the Indies I work with are holding on so far) most manufacturing companies have cut most or all temps(varies but still a significant number of people) to manage social distancing and costs. CA is probably going to be in trouble come the next year, we're going to have a massive deficit.

I forgot to mention Disneyland. They brought a ton of people back in anticipation of a "reopening"(the plans were bad even if the lockdown didn't return) that never happened and they aren't getting rid of them again. Park is a money pit right now.

Things are looking grim, for sure.  I'm not sure all this impending pain is baked into the cake yet,  in terms of the impact this will all have....