What happens when your cloud service just pulls the plug - Insteon gone

[darkspr1te]

Just thank your self luck they just control your lights etc.  I have had a couple of customers on over the years, in a panic at the companies they used to host their back office (accounts, payroll, stock control etc) functions in the 'Cloud' suddenly decided to shut down.

You can make almost any computer, including a very lightweight machine like a raspberry pi into a web server and implement your personal cloud box.. Just make sure it stays cool. Thin clients work well.. and take very liottle power.. Plus no surveillance, no google..I can esily wak you through setting up apache or nginx or a database server..

I Self cloud all my systems, no internet access routes for protection apart from one service for me to vpn into should i require access to any "clouded" systems , eg cctv, access control, lights, power and data services. I just dont trust a company to be there in 6 months a year.
When i started out in my current profession the company had been sold 10 trackers at great cost, company disappeared before last two had been installed and no web service was provided to use the paid for trackers. Thankfully they were plain old GT06 clones and Traccar  the open tracking system go great together. The end result actually saved a great deal of money as self hosting was free and not at $60/per month ,  per tracker. only cost moving forward was the data fees per tracker and the bonus there was locally gprs is not charged for, only 3g and up so the tracking unit still remain with their initial talk time top up 5 years later.

It's not always a win though, i have a lot of tech still unused that is no longer supported or minor firmware issues and no open solutions exist or the tech is too locked down , this is not 20year old tech, this is in most cases less than 5 years old , while not cloud services the end result is the same, more e-waste.

and don't get me started on kernel sources , that a new rabbit hole of pain.


darkspr1te

[cdev]

if you really need a cloud, make your own private cloud on a NAS device. or be prepared to something like that ! (i.e. make backups if possible)

When they go out of business, the info, all the info required to jailbreak the hardware, should become public property.. NOT useless junk..

[SiliconWizard]

if you really need a cloud, make your own private cloud on a NAS device. or be prepared to something like that ! (i.e. make backups if possible)

When they go out of business, the info, all the info required to jailbreak the hardware, should become public property.. NOT useless junk..

I'd be fully supportive of that at least for medical devices. For other kinds of products, this could be some kind of rabbit hole as far as IP is concerned.

I don't think one should ever rely too much on some service/product unless one doesn't have a choice (as with medical devices) anyway, and getting occasionally bitten by doing so is a reasonable reminder. Whatever you do, don't freaking put all your eggs in the same basket. Popular wisdom which seems to have almost completely disappeared.

[vk6zgo]

My iteration of W10 seems to have gone, following a few updates, from defaulting my files to "This Computer", to instead, sending them to "One Drive".

I still have "enough of my marbles" to say "I don't want no steenkin' One Drive", & make sure the important ones are stored locally, but plenty of older people have lost a few of theirs, & many young people never had any "marbles".

For most things that you need the 'Net to do, it probably doesn't matter, although the thought of my "Online Banking" details being on the "Cloud" is a bit worrying.
If you've lost Internet access for a while, some stuff can normally be done offline, but if all your files rely on an intact Internet connection, you are out of luck.

I'm not supposing that Microsoft will suddenly "turn up their toes" & disappear, but there is, on their previous form, the likelihood that "One drive" will change to a subscription service, so they "can hold my files to ransom"!

[xrunner]

I don't think one should ever rely too much on some service/product unless one doesn't have a choice (as with medical devices) anyway, and getting occasionally bitten by doing so is a reasonable reminder. Whatever you do, don't freaking put all your eggs in the same basket. Popular wisdom which seems to have almost completely disappeared.

I can assure you, my thinking will never be "clouded" again regarding this technology's dangers. 

[thm_w]

I'm not supposing that Microsoft will suddenly "turn up their toes" & disappear, but there is, on their previous form, the likelihood that "One drive" will change to a subscription service, so they "can hold my files to ransom"!

Onedrive files will exist on the PC they were created on, they are not deleted in the background, so there is no ransom risk here.
The subscription option already exists: if you use more than 5GB, you can pay $20/year for the 100GB account.

Privacy concerns still valid of course.

[Monkeh]

if all your files rely on an intact Internet connection, you are out of luck.

It's a good job that's not how One Drive works then, eh?

[vk6zgo]

if all your files rely on an intact Internet connection, you are out of luck.

It's a good job that's not how One Drive works then, eh?

Oops!! I saw "cloud", & my "inner Luddite" came to the fore!

[SilverSolder]

if all your files rely on an intact Internet connection, you are out of luck.

It's a good job that's not how One Drive works then, eh?

Oops!! I saw "cloud", & my "inner Luddite" came to the fore!

I'm gradually coming to the conclusion that Microsoft's cloud offering is among the "least bad" of the bunch...    they have a free offering that's better than Dropbox (mostly because Dropbox limits you to max 3 devices on a free account.   So when you buy a new phone or something...  you can't install Dropbox on it.   If you wanted to invent a policy to stop people using your product, it's hard to think of a better idea!).   

Some of the MS subscription models are (currently) so cheap that it compares "OK" with running your own server, for some purposes (e.g. 100GB for $2 a month is fine for storing critical data (encrypted!) off site, for example).   

Of course, you are at the mercy of arbitrary price increases once you get dependent on these services.  You just have to remember, when doing the math, that is isn't actually free to run your own server, and you deserve better than valuing your own time at zero as well! 

[xrunner]

Email received from group that acquired Insteon this PM -

Hello,

In case you missed my blog post, my name is Ken Fairbanks and I am leading a small group of passionate Insteon users that have successfully acquired Insteon. Like many of you, our homes are powered by Insteon’s amazing dual-mesh technology and highly configurable products.

Like you, I was outraged at the sudden loss of connectivity to my Insteon Hub without warning. Many of you discovered just the other day that the Insteon Hubs began coming back online. While we didn't intend to surprise you again, our first priority was restoring access to your hubs immediately even before we had access to send you this email. Every day more customers were giving up hope so it was critical to get that restored as soon as possible. We are aware not all functions are back online but we are actively working on it. We hope you understand this urgency and appreciate your patience.

Here's a list of Insteon Hub services we are actively working on or have completed:

    Access to Insteon Hub: Completed
    Apps available in Google Play and Apple App Store: Completed
    Push notifications: Completed
    Email notifications: Completed
    Amazon Alexa skill availability: In process
    Google Assistant availability: In process

In addition to the efforts above, we are working to see what inventory we have available as well as reaching out to factories to restart manufacturing.

Going forward we are committed to responsibly re-building the Insteon business. Our commitment to you, as part of the Insteon family, is to listen, communicate and be as transparent as possible in everything we do.

With that in mind, our immediate plan is to make the Insteon Hub services a self-sustaining business. This is where we need your help. To properly and responsibly run and support these services we will be introducing a yearly subscription fee of $39.95, or $69.95 for two years.

We are working to finalize the details of the subscription and should have more information as well as ways to purchase it by next week. Meanwhile, I would love to hear your thoughts. Please reach out here.

We will also be posting updates on Insteon’s social media accounts so if you don’t tend to check email as often, you can get updates on the Insteon blog, twitter, facebook, and reddit.

Thank you all for your patience. We look forward to sharing this new journey with you.

Best regards,

Ken Fairbanks

CEO, Insteon Technologies
Insteon logo

Insteon Technologies

29 Sonrisa, Irvine, CA 92620

[madires]

With that in mind, our immediate plan is to make the Insteon Hub services a self-sustaining business. This is where we need your help. To properly and responsibly run and support these services we will be introducing a yearly subscription fee of $39.95, or $69.95 for two years.

Rinse and repeat.

[rdsi]

I was happy to unload my ISY944 & PLM for $1,025 on eBay.  For my remaining Insteon devices I use Home Assistant to control them (I had a spare USB PLM) running in a container on my TrueNAS (Scale) server.  Works great!

[NiHaoMike]

As long as they continue to allow the devices to be used locally, I don't see the problem with it. It's OK to have optional cloud based services, holding user owned devices ransom every year without prior agreement during purchase is not.

[Kasper]

I've had an outdoor sensor fail after a storm which caused the lights to randomly flash on and off; I want some way to manually turn that off without killing power to half the house.

I used to make home automation systems.  A wireless doorbell was returned with a similar problem.  Sounded really annoying, it would ocassionally ring, sometimes in the middle of the night.  Was fairly random but more often during / after a storm.

The button net was floating because of a failed solder joint on its pullup resistor.

[SilverSolder]

There's something to be said for keeping home automation to a minimum, in the long run!

[xrunner]

I've already moved on to a Lutron system with one hub and four lamp dimmers. It's got a better app (IMHO), and it doesn't require the cloud to work. However it will control lights from the cloud if you have an internet connection on your phone. Otherwise it's local control.

It also came with two stand-alone remote control Pico switches you can link to an individual dimmer, for convenience if you don't want to use the app (another means of local control).

As has been stated, the Insteon light switches work over the cloud with the Insteon hub, that's why they stopped working when they quit the business. Well to clarify, the lights in my house didn't stop being controlled by the hub, but you got locked-out of modifying the schedule, and the app stopped working so you could not turn the lights off before the schedule would, or back on anytime you wanted to. Well sure, you could walk up to the dimmer module and push the switch. 

They work over the cloud using their system model - if you want to use some other system that works with them locally, then it's up to you to figure it out. But for people that don't want to do that, or can't go to the trouble, they want to re-enable the hub functionality for a recurring charge going into the future. That's the new businness model ...

Good Luck

[Bud]

What does that mean "a small group of passionate Insteon users that have successfully acquired Insteon" . Don't they have a legal company name in order to run this business? Sounds fishi.

[rdsi]

Hmm, maybe they are back from the dead - Insteon
If the new company can bring all their products back I'll probably stick with them...
We'll have to wait & see!

[Ed.Kloonk]

I'd only hand them money I'd be prepared to loose. The tech economy sector has now become vastly different compared to the high times during which the company was founded. The Tech industry was as fertile as it was ever going to be since the early 2000s.

[Bassman59]

With that in mind, our immediate plan is to make the Insteon Hub services a self-sustaining business. This is where we need your help. To properly and responsibly run and support these services we will be introducing a yearly subscription fee of $39.95, or $69.95 for two years.

Rinse and repeat.

They should say up front that the only way to maintain the cloud access is to charge users for it. That's what they imply by this statement, but honesty and clarity would be nice.

[eti]

Well, to be excruciatingly obvious, "da kloud" is JUST... just... other computers somewhere else. Computers routinely break down, and other people's computers are no exception to failure. No matter how "robust and fail-safe" a HUMAN designed system is, there is always that one circumstance that NO ONE saw coming, and... Er oopps ; bye bye all your data.

Relying on the "cloud" is a fool's errand. Relying on ANY media is equally so. Make MULTIPLE copies on MULTIPLE differing media formats, and spread them far and wide, if your data is life or death level.

If a flood happens (and do not think it can't), then even ALL those copies can be permanently trashed, even across all media types. Nothing in life is permanent.../ (did I digress?)

[Black Phoenix]

Well, to be excruciatingly obvious, "da kloud" is JUST... just... other computers somewhere else. Computers routinely break down, and other people's computers are no exception to failure. No matter how "robust and fail-safe" a HUMAN designed system is, there is always that one circumstance that NO ONE saw coming, and... Er oopps ; bye bye all your data.

Relying on the "cloud" is a fool's errand. Relying on ANY media is equally so. Make MULTIPLE copies on MULTIPLE differing media formats, and spread them far and wide, if your data is life or death level.

If a flood happens (and do not think it can't), then even ALL those copies can be permanently trashed, even across all media types. Nothing in life is permanent.../ (did I digress?)

Jesus fucking Christ mate, why every comment I see from you is always: big wall of text, goes into a big tangent around the subject (stating obvious things that every one here knows) and don't add anything meaningful for the discussion.

If you don't have anything of value for the discussion just do what I do in most the discussions, don't say anything...

[eti]

Well, to be excruciatingly obvious, "da kloud" is JUST... just... other computers somewhere else. Computers routinely break down, and other people's computers are no exception to failure. No matter how "robust and fail-safe" a HUMAN designed system is, there is always that one circumstance that NO ONE saw coming, and... Er oopps ; bye bye all your data.

Relying on the "cloud" is a fool's errand. Relying on ANY media is equally so. Make MULTIPLE copies on MULTIPLE differing media formats, and spread them far and wide, if your data is life or death level.

If a flood happens (and do not think it can't), then even ALL those copies can be permanently trashed, even across all media types. Nothing in life is permanent.../ (did I digress?)

Jesus fucking Christ mate, why every comment I see from you is always: big wall of text, goes into a big tangent around the subject (stating obvious things that every one here knows) and don't add anything meaningful for the discussion.

If you don't have anything of value for the discussion just do what I do in most the discussions, don't say anything...

Teach me the right way, by example… I hope you can lead by example. It seems unlikely but I don’t feel shouting and cursing is the answer. That speaks more about you than about me. I await your guidance.

[Black Phoenix]

Teach me the right way, by example… I hope you can lead by example. It seems unlikely but I don’t feel shouting and cursing is the answer. That speaks more about you than about me. I await your guidance.

Sorry but I'm not going to play your game. You will put myself at your level and then win by experience.

You look like that annoying uncle in the family reunions who no one ask his opinion but he feels the need to say them. And I close my discussion on this topic regarding the subject. I've gone enough off topic. Sorry to the rest of the users in this thread.

[eti]

Teach me the right way, by example… I hope you can lead by example. It seems unlikely but I don’t feel shouting and cursing is the answer. That speaks more about you than about me. I await your guidance.

Sorry but I'm not going to play your game. You will put myself at your level and then win by experience.

You look like that annoying uncle in the family reunions who no one ask his opinion but he feels the need to say them. And I close my discussion on this topic regarding the subject. I've gone enough off topic. Sorry to the rest of the users in this thread.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ excellent. Be blessed and have a happy day