Very poor service experience with RS Components Germany

[madires]

Recently I've made the mistake to order from RS Components in Germany. It was the first time and will be also the last. They got an online shop for end customers and I've ordered a differential probe for my scope. The price was reasonable and I didn't want to buy it from abroad because of possible warranty and customs issues. When I opened the box I've found a wall wart with an UK plug. Doesn't fit too well in my Schuko sockets My first tought was, it could have been some mistake. The product description in the online shop didn't mention the UK wall wart and also had no pictures showing that. So I contacted RS' customer service. Besides not the fastest, they told me there's no version with a Schuko wall wart and I may return the probe. or alternatively buy a more expensive one which runs on batteries. Since I like to keep the probe I checked their online shop for a matching wall wart and suggested to send me that one or to give me a small discount. The answer was they can do neither. Luckily I know German consumer laws. If something is wrong with the product you've bought, you can demand that the seller fixes the issue. If he can't fix the problem or denies to fix it, you have the right to undo the purchase or substract a reasonable sum from the price for compensation. Because RS denied to fix the problem and I already paid by credit card, I've asked them to return a reasonable sum. A customer service team leader responded asking for my bank account. Because I haven't received the money after waiting two weeks, I've contacted the customer service again and asked when they intent to transfer the sum. No response after waiting another week. What a great customer support!

Usually when something goes wrong and you discuss the issue politely with the customer service, the problem will be fixed or they suggest a compromise. I've run a business myself and know how those things are handled. But RS provided me with the worst customer service I've experienced so far.

[Howardlong]

Hmm, can you not use an adapter?

It's not at all uncommon to purchase items with the wrong plug. I have plenty of adapters and wallwarts accumulated over the years for just such an event. It's a very minor irritation, but it's no big deal.

Is the RS you're dealing with in Germany, or elsewhere? If it is outside Germany, then German consumer law would have little relevance.

It just sounds like your getting a bit hot under the collar for the sake of a EUR5 adapter or a EUR10 wallwart. While I'm not particularly supportive of RS one way or another, life's sometimes too short.

[yada]

Try dealing with AT&T wireless in America. I got a phone for an extended stay and they over charged my bill by exactly 100.00$USD. They told me "sorry" we know its our fault but the biggest refund they were allowed to issue was 60.00. WTF?  So with about an hour of arguing I drove to the store. The store wouldn't help so they gave me customer servie on their store phone. The store was super busy, so I put it on speaker phone for all the customers to hear they were stealing money. I got my 100.00 plus 70.00 back for bull shit tax. I wish Canada had that law like Germany.

[ZeTeX]

Try dealing with AT&T wireless in America. I got a phone for an extended stay and they over charged my bill by exactly 100.00$USD. They told me "sorry" we know it's our fault but the biggest refund they were allowed to issue was 60.00. WTF?  So with about an hour of arguing I drove to the store. The store wouldn't help so they gave me customer service on their store phone. The store was super busy, so I put it on speaker phone for all the customers to hear they were stealing money. I got my 100.00 plus 70.00 back for bull shit tax. I wish Canada had that law like Germany.

Good job! surprised it was America, Here in Israel, it occurs on daily basis. for example, if you want to switch from one internet/tv/whatever provider to other, expect to talk with the company you are trying to leave about 4 hours.

On a site note, my friend made and order for an item worth 36$ in GearBest, they shipped it through a bloody crappy postal service somewhere in who know where ("express shipping"), and the site of the postal service didn't even have a contact email or phone, if you wanted to contact the post office, you better shot yourself because you can't find any way to contact them.

over 45 days (and remember, he paid more for the shipping because it was express) and no sign of the package, gearbest are just trying to take the time and tells him the exact same thing (wait a little bit more, you entered the wrong zip number (he didn't) and much more).

Until he opened a case on PayPal and they refunded him...

[madires]

Hmm, can you not use an adapter?

Of course I can. RS could have suggested that, but they didn't.

It's not at all uncommon to purchase items with the wrong plug. I have plenty of adapters and wallwarts accumulated over the years for just such an event. It's a very minor irritation, but it's no big deal.

When I buy a product from a German seller inside Germany and the product description doesn't mention anything about a non-Schuko plug, I expect a Schuko plug. Anything else would be a defect of the product and has to be fixed by the seller.

Is the RS you're dealing with in Germany, or elsewhere? If it is outside Germany, then German consumer law would have little relevance.

Yes, it's RS Components Germany, which is also noted on the invoice.

It just sounds like your getting a bit hot under the collar for the sake of a EUR5 adapter or a EUR10 wallwart. While I'm not particularly supportive of RS one way or another, life's sometimes too short.

It's not about the few bucks, it's about the way they've treated me, that they've tried to violate German law and that they don't seem to adhere to their earlier statement paying me the requested compensation. I'm really amazed about such a known company behaving so badly. Therefore I wanted to share my experience to warn other buyers. Caveat emptor It's more productive than suing RS for a few bucks and I prefer spending my free time with electronics, especially the Transistor Tester, than going berserk.

[sleemanj]

As a point of interest, if they had done that in New Zealand, they would have almost certainly broken the law. 

Products connecting to the mains sold here are required to have a compliant New Zealand mains plug, no foreign plugs, no travel adaptors (deathdaptor as bigclive would say).

Of course it doesn't stop people from selling those products since enforcement resources are limited, but it is certainly not uncommon that Energy Safety (government department) gets a complaint they will follow up with the vendor to at the least get the products off the shelf, and have been known to come down like a ton-of-bricks if they are really flouting the law.

I'm surprised Germany, given it's officious reputation, doesn't have similar laws, or perhaps they do and you should give a little nudge to whatever the equivalent government department is.

[nctnico]

Usually when something goes wrong and you discuss the issue politely with the customer service, the problem will be fixed or they suggest a compromise. I've run a business myself and know how those things are handled. But RS provided me with the worst customer service I've experienced so far.

No, you should have checked what you have bought. RS & Farnell are somehow oriented at the UK market and thus lots of stuff from them comes with a UK mains adapter or power cord. Keep that in mind the next time you order from RS or Farnell.

[madires]

Germany has no direct law to enforce a Schuko or Euro plug, which makes sense for me. If you want to buy a toaster for your uncle Bob in the UK, an UK mains plug would be handy, i.e. you should be allowed to buy something with a foreign mains plug on purpose. But if you buy something for demestic use it should have the proper plug. And unless stated otherwise by the seller the product has to have a proper domestic mains plug. If not, the product would have a defect. That's covered by the German "BGB". So we got a law indirectly enforcing the correct mains plug, but you can also get a foreign mains plug on purpose.

[madires]

No, you should have checked what you have bought. RS & Farnell are somehow oriented at the UK market and thus lots of stuff from them comes with a UK mains adapter or power cord. Keep that in mind the next time you order from RS or Farnell.

I've checked the German product description in their German online shop. Neither was the feature "UK mains plugs" mentioned, nor any picture showing the wall wart with an UK plug. So a Euro or Schuko plug is to be expected (German company selling a product in Germany). It's a clear case of selling a product not matching the description/offer. As I said before, I know the consumer laws (BGB in ths case).

[yada]

Hmm, can you not use an adapter?

Of course I can. RS could have suggested that, but they didn't.

Then quit your bitching. Do they need to hold your hand and come up with solutions to every problem you have? Get an adapter using the money you got back from them and problem solved! Part of the fun in electronics is adapting thing to make them work. Don't be like the people who work at home depot that think you can ONLY use a product for what's written on the box.

[madires]

They haven't paid the requested compensation they've agreed to, yet. And after not responding to my question about when they will, I doubt they will.

Please read the complete post and not just two sentences before criticising!

[nctnico]

No, you should have checked what you have bought. RS & Farnell are somehow oriented at the UK market and thus lots of stuff from them comes with a UK mains adapter or power cord. Keep that in mind the next time you order from RS or Farnell.

I've checked the German product description in their German online shop. Neither was the feature "UK mains plugs" mentioned, nor any picture showing the wall wart with an UK plug. So a Euro or Schuko plug is to be expected (German company selling a product in Germany). It's a clear case of selling a product not matching the description/offer. As I said before, I know the consumer laws (BGB in ths case).

Always check the datasheet! The image can be wrong (and sometimes is) and the terms of RS (but also Farnell) explicitly deny responsibility of errors in the information they provide on the website. Basically you can only complain if you got a different article based on the manufacturer's part number.

[madires]

Denying any responsibility of errors in the product description doesn't matter much in Germany. Any part in "terms & conditions" violating the BGB is invalid. If a company sells a product with specific features the product needs to have those features, otherwise it's considered a defect. There are tons of court decisions about that topic confirming that over and over again.

[SeanB]

UK is a member of the EU ( well, for the moment) and thus they supplied a unit that meets the EU spec. I know that they should have at least sent a complimentary deathdaptor with a Shucko plug on the one side and a UK socket among the other side, but they probably also supply to Switzerland, and have to have a different adaptor, to France which almost is a Shucko type and so on, so in most cases the customer will end up with a big box of adaptors that are unusable.

They probably might also make the AC adaptor with the ability to have different country plug systems as a slide on and latch arrangement, like a lot of Japanese manufacturers do, supplying a plastic bag with 5 different plastic parts, that have in total 10g of plated steel as the current carrying bits, and which promptly gets 80% of them thrown away by the customer after complaining about having to figure out which one to use and how to follow the big fold out pictogram of how to install them ( slide and click, but wow how difficult) on the wall wart.

Here there is a type M socket, which is now official, though I have yet to see any appliance or device with a true type M plug on it, only thing they get used for ( and the reason I put them in a lot) is to have cellphone chargers neatly arranged, and to plug in double isolated equipment that comes with a 2 pin socket that fits them. I put up a few to run DECT base stations and repeaters at work, as that way the adaptors do not go "missing" for use in cellphone chargers, i got tired of buying a dozen every 3 months to replace them.

[madires]

In most cases mains powered products come only with a Euro or Schuko plug. Sometimes wall warts come with the slide-on mains plug to support different socket types, but they include only a Euro and UK slide-on plug typically. Products with an IEC connector rarely have additional cables with plugs for other countries. If they do, it's mostly an UK one. Usually the distributor/importer puts an IEC cable with a Schuko plug into the box or swaps the wall wart for one with a Euro plug if the manaufacturer didn't include the right one. Anything sold whithout stating a specific mains plug has to have a Euro or Schuko plug to be usable inside Germany. If not, it's considered a defect, because the product isn't fit for purpose, i.e. you can't plug it into the mains socket.

[Andreas]

Hello,

what was the order number.
I do not want to make the same mistake.

with best regards

Andreas

[nctnico]

Denying any responsibility of errors in the product description doesn't matter much in Germany. Any part in "terms & conditions" violating the BGB is invalid. If a company sells a product with specific features the product needs to have those features, otherwise it's considered a defect. There are tons of court decisions about that topic confirming that over and over again.

In an earlier post you wrote that 'So a Euro or Schuko plug is to be expected' so you obviously didn't read all the documentation (=datasheet) but made an assumption. Let this be a lesson to study the specifications very well before buying something and don't make any assumptions.

[madires]

what was the order number.
I do not want to make the same mistake.

It's 7296677. I've suggested to them to add a hint about the UK plug but they haven't done that.

[madires]

In an earlier post you wrote that 'So a Euro or Schuko plug is to be expected' so you obviously didn't read all the documentation (=datasheet) but made an assumption. Let this be a lesson to study the specifications very well before buying something and don't make any assumptions.

Sorry that you don't get it! Before buying I've read the product specification and the manual, which are both avaliable in the online shop. No hint about any mains plug, only mains voltages. If a German shop sells a product inside Germany and doesn't state any specific mains plus in the product description, the buyer can assume a Euro or Schuko plug. Otherwise it would be a defect. It's plain and simple.

[egonotto]

Hello,

now they have a picture.
http://de.rs-online.com/web/p/oszilloskop-tastkopfe/7296677/?sra=pstk


Best regards
egonotto

[madires]

Unfortunately not in the shop for consumers: https://www.rsonline-privat.de/Products/ProductDetail/PINTEK-Differential-Tastkopf-DP-25-25MHz-200-1-20-1-50-1-Serie-DP-7296677

[Cerebus]

In an earlier post you wrote that 'So a Euro or Schuko plug is to be expected' so you obviously didn't read all the documentation (=datasheet) but made an assumption. Let this be a lesson to study the specifications very well before buying something and don't make any assumptions.

Sorry that you don't get it! Before buying I've read the product specification and the manual, which are both avaliable in the online shop. No hint about any mains plug, only mains voltages. If a German shop sells a product inside Germany and doesn't state any specific mains plus in the product description, the buyer can assume a Euro or Schuko plug. Otherwise it would be a defect. It's plain and simple.

I think what people are failing to get is that German law is quite different to many, perhaps most, countries in two ways. 1) Sales of goods laws are actually enforced (whereas in many places those laws are weakly enforced or barely honoured at all). 2) In Germany many terms and conditions of supply are statutory in nature. A German colleague (Rüdiger*) of mine was very surprised to find that in commercial business in the UK we wrote the contract and that the terms of the contract were the whole thing that determined the legal relationship between us and our commercial customers, not a set of statutory rules.

There is a different expectation in Germany, and Madires isn't being a whinger, he's saying that a commonly held expectation of how things are done has not been met. You have to spend a little while in Germany before you come to realise that "That's not right" and "Das ist nicht richtig" might mutually translate into each other, but don't mean quite the same thing. We could have quite a long conversation about the idea of "deutsche ordnung" or, as the Germans say "Ordnung ist das halbe Leben**." - Order is half of life.

It's unusually warm in the UK tonight (still over 27?C outside at nearly midnight) and thinking of my days occasionally working in Germany has me in the mood for a nice cold Weizenbier. No luck there, but the fridge did yield up a cold bottle of Guinness Rye Pale Ale which isn't too poor a substitute.

*A name that my English colleagues consistently failed to be able to pronounce. It usually came out as Roo-digger, which always had me picturing some fair dinkum Digger with his regimental Roo. I mention his name because I happen to know that Madires knew some of my former German colleagues.

** und Unordnung die andere Hälfte.

[Andreas]

Hello,

It's 7296677. I've suggested to them to add a hint about the UK plug but they haven't done that.

Thanks for the hint. The price is really good.

There is a different expectation in Germany, and Madires isn't being a whinger, he's saying that a commonly held expectation of how things are done has not been met.

and that is exactly the reason why it is very difficult in Germany as private end user
to get special parts like LTZ1000 voltage references. Vishay precision resistors. etc...

The laws here are on end user side. So many companies only sell B2B.
(Even if some of the B2B companies now have a end customer shop where they mainly want to participate from the Raspberry Pi hype)

In B2B
- the customer itself is responsible for what he orders
- no translation of the user guide to german is necessary
- no sending back of goods (free for the customer) if the device does not please
...

I admit that the end customer site is a horror to use compared to the B2B site.
(much less information and no overview, no filter functions)
I keep in mind that RS is mainly a B2B company where I only
order things that I would have to order from overseas otherwise.
(e.g. 9V AC power supplies like the 7300174 which are only for "industrial" use (no green label))

By the way RS = Radio Spares is a British company even if they have a dispatch store in Germany.

With best regards

Andreas

[madires]

Just for clarification: I've bought the differential probe from RS Components GmbH in Mörfelden-Walldorf.

[Andreas]

... with head office in Oxford.  (ok also not mentioned on the consumer portal).