Thinking about leaving the UK

[pdenisowski]

Yeah - one good thing here is that we are quite flexible in changing our office language to some sort of rally English when the first non-Finnish speaker pops up. This is probably because even we are ashamed of our English accent, we would be even more ashamed of not even trying, and leaving them out of the loop.

One of the less obvious reasons for learning a foreign language is that it avoids the situation where a group of people speaking that language have to switch to your language to avoid excluding you. I don't normally advertise that I speak German, but I will bring it up when a group of Germans (politely) switches to English so as not to leave me out of the conversation.

Why would you be ashamed of an accent? You are expected to speak someone else's language with an accent.

Heck, I speak my own language with an accent, which I am always painfully aware of when I spend time in the UK

[pcprogrammer]

As do many other big cities. I never want to live in a city anymore. Way to many people and noise. Though nature can be noisy too  Birds can be very loud, but over here there are lots of moments of almost complete silence. Lovely.

2015-2018 I was living in fairly central Moscow (500m from the "3rd Ring Road", which has 5 lanes in each direction), then 2019 in San Francisco (or at least Fremont).

Now I live in the Far North of New Zealand, on a narrow strip of land between two dairy farms. I can not see any other houses. Other than bords or the farmer cruising past occasionally on his tractor or quad bike, the only sound I usually hear external to the house is flights from Auckland to Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, or Taipei climbing out at 30,000 or 32,000 feet as they pass overhead (just about to initial cruise altitude) 175 km from Auckland airport.

It's got to be pretty quiet to hear those.

Sounds (some pun intended ) also as a good place to be. 

The one drawback here in the Dordogne valley are the fighter jets that practice on some day of the week. But that often is over quick. Passenger planes can be seen and sometimes heard but not very loud as they pass by at high altitudes. Tourism is not that much, but we do avoid specific towns in the summer. Luckily the Correze is less known then the Dordogne.

[pcprogrammer]

I think that instead of outright, almost ideological incompetence (e.g. Rwanda policy = £0.5bn for six guys to leave, five voluntarily on a pre-existing scheme, lol) we have the adults back in charge.  Yes, the Lab government are going to be limited to what they can change, but I think suggesting they can change nothing about the UK is wrong.

Did you miss the most important documentaries in UK political history - Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister. To this day ex-ministers reference those as an accurate depiction of government. It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government (i.e. civil service) gets in. The elected are puppets to draw attention away from real power. Why do you think countries like the US and UK end up with two leading parties that make very different noises, but end up doing roughly the same thing?

I have heard the same about how it works in the Netherlands and I also use the argument that throughout the western world the countries mostly are in the same situation or state, no matter if left, center or right has been in power. Maybe the UK is now a bit worse due to the brexit, but in general it feels the same where ever you look.

[pcprogrammer]

Yeah - one good thing here is that we are quite flexible in changing our office language to some sort of rally English when the first non-Finnish speaker pops up. This is probably because even we are ashamed of our English accent, we would be even more ashamed of not even trying, and leaving them out of the loop.

One of the less obvious reasons for learning a foreign language is that it avoids the situation where a group of people speaking that language have to switch to your language to avoid excluding you. I don't normally advertise that I speak German, but I will bring it up when a group of Germans (politely) switches to English so as not to leave me out of the conversation.

Why would you be ashamed of an accent? You are expected to speak someone else's language with an accent.

Heck, I speak my own language with an accent, which I am always painfully aware of when I spend time in the UK

Would the world be better of if everybody spoke the same language you can wonder.

I fear that other cultural differences would still cause troubles, so probably not.

As an example within the US, English is the prevailing language, but one from the north can have a hard time understanding someone from the south, and then ridicule of each other can start fights. Pesky human nature.   

[Postal2]

...... but in general it feels the same where ever you look.

I agree. Except when the environment consists of people with severe hereditary traits, such as... well, you get my mean.

[pdenisowski]

Would the world be better of if everybody spoke the same language you can wonder.

Careful - you're talking to someone who published a >60,000 word Esperanto-English dictionary

I fear that other cultural differences would still cause troubles, so probably not.

Reminds me of the Babel fish from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. ... the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."   

[Postal2]

.... Careful ....

I have no practice, sorry.

[tggzzz]

Would the world be better of if everybody spoke the same language you can wonder.

Careful - you're talking to someone who published a >60,000 word Esperanto-English dictionary

I fear that other cultural differences would still cause troubles, so probably not.

Reminds me of the Babel fish from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. ... the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."   

Damn: beat me to it

Douglas Adams is a good example of someone with the curse of Cassandra. She was cursed to (continue to) accurately predict the future - but not to be believed.

[coppice]

Careful - you're talking to someone who published a >60,000 word Esperanto-English dictionary

Wow, that must have been a huge money maker.

[tggzzz]

Careful - you're talking to someone who published a >60,000 word Esperanto-English dictionary

Wow, that must have been a huge money maker.

i suspect that statement is partly correct

[coppice]

Careful - you're talking to someone who published a >60,000 word Esperanto-English dictionary

Wow, that must have been a huge money maker.

i suspect that statement is partly correct

As so often, XKCD has this one nailed https://xkcd.com/927/

[Sal Ammoniac]

Is this mostly due to the movie industry? For sure an industry where big money flows around.

No. The movie industry is pretty far down the list of contributors to California's economy.

[schmitt trigger]

Since we are discussing POLITICS, I'll note all the alternatives are worse. Welcome to the Weimar Republic MkII.

Now, lest we fill the void left by Faringdon/Treez, can we get back to electronics and related topics, please.

Pretty please.

I am a glutton for punishment, and actually enjoyed in a perverse way, the shit storm that would be created by his posts. Similarly to a pyromaniac watching the neighborhood going down in flames.
But I agree for the sake of this website’s long-term health, these types of individuals should take their rants elsewhere.

[tom66]

I think that instead of outright, almost ideological incompetence (e.g. Rwanda policy = £0.5bn for six guys to leave, five voluntarily on a pre-existing scheme, lol) we have the adults back in charge.  Yes, the Lab government are going to be limited to what they can change, but I think suggesting they can change nothing about the UK is wrong.

Did you miss the most important documentaries in UK political history - Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister. To this day ex-ministers reference those as an accurate depiction of government. It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government (i.e. civil service) gets in. The elected are puppets to draw attention away from real power. Why do you think countries like the US and UK end up with two leading parties that make very different noises, but end up doing roughly the same thing?

With the greatest respect, no, I don't accept that one bit at all.  It's a very common line from people who don't engage in politics,  "They're all the same - Nothing changes!" but the reality is anything but.

Besides, ministers and the government reserve the right to appoint anyone they like to senior civil service positions, and can sack and hire as needed at that level.  So they have no problem installing like-minded individuals, provided they can find them.

[tggzzz]

Since we are discussing POLITICS, I'll note all the alternatives are worse. Welcome to the Weimar Republic MkII.

Now, lest we fill the void left by Faringdon/Treez, can we get back to electronics and related topics, please.

Pretty please.

I am a glutton for punishment, and actually enjoyed in a perverse way, the shit storm that would be created by his posts. Similarly to a pyromaniac watching the neighborhood going down in flames.
But I agree for the sake of this website’s long-term health, these types of individuals should take their rants elsewhere.

That's a reasonable analogy

Trouble is I care about this neighbourhood

[BrianHG]

Thanks to a new absurdly stupid Quebec law coming on the books, not only have I been thinking of starting up a new company in San Fransisco area, but to also move part of my extended family/relatives and offer them work.

(Warning if you are thinking about vacationing in Quebec, it is with a sad heart that I would have to say after this summer, cancel all plans for your safety unless everyone in your party is fluent in French.)

  What's going on in Quebec now?  I lived just south of the border in the late 1970s and made a few trips into Canada and all of the French Canadians went out of their way to be rude if you didn't speak French.  I lived and worked in Saint Jean sur Richelieu, Quebec in the mid 1980s and they were still rude but once I made friends with a few of them, the rest of them accepted me. That said, I never felt unsafe, which is more than I can say about some places in the US that's been to. I later worked with Spar Aerospace in Toronto and I made several trips up there and I have to say that that was a very nice area but I don't know what the cost of living was like there.

     Quebec's new health-care language directive makes it illegal for hospitals to converse with you in any language other than French.  As an English only speaker living here in Quebec, if I were to get into an auto accident, and brought to a hospital, their staff will be legally prohibited from talking to me in English.  And I will not be able to understand anything if I might be asked to sign any paperwork as everything will now be uni-lingual French.

How much does it cost to hire an interpreter or why not learn French? I had a similar issue when I was on holiday in France, in the late 90s, but fortunately my rusty French was enough to get  by.

I think they should do that in the UK, but only allow English and prehaps Welsh. That would certainly cut down on health tourism and save the NHS money on hiring interpreters for those who don't speak English.

Perhaps you should stay in the hope to salvage things.

I do not know about interpreter pricing, but I bet there are roadblocks to getting one in time.

Most of my friends are engineers and even if they were born and grew up French speaking, you better believe they are all fluent in English.  Otherwise, they could not function in the engineering field since they need to read up to date technical IC, software, and engineering documentation.

An yes, here in Quebec, there are 'Language Police', it is a real thing.

[Smokey]

Is this mostly due to the movie industry? For sure an industry where big money flows around.

No. The movie industry is pretty far down the list of contributors to California's economy.

CA total... Probably.  Los Angeles specifically??

[pdenisowski]

Careful - you're talking to someone who published a >60,000 word Esperanto-English dictionary

Wow, that must have been a huge money maker.

I actually came across a paperback copy in a used bookstore a couple of months ago .... Glad to see it is still fetching a premium price 

 

[mengfei]

Have you Considered Asia?
CN, VN or Singapore perhaps?

I can't imagine much worse than living in China.
Check out SerpentZA's channel for stories on living there for a decade.

well actually it's the other way around, not really sure what happened to that guy, guess a china lady turned him down perhaps?

Now China is one fo the MOST advance place to Live in, I pressume
- safety, very little crime here compared to other western places
- food & shopping, looks like the world produce has moved here
- Living in an almost cashless society via wechat pay or alipay that even paying for street food is via phone
- transportation is above the rest of the world, i guess, almost all buses here are Electric, some cities now have driverless taxi, high speed train @320kph, affordable cars
- Most of the high tech that's coming out right now are coming from here
- 4 seasons & entertainment, like I said the world has move here except for those that listen to black propaganda. 

in the beginning serpentza was all praises for china then suddenly the bashing, there have been many many videos from other foreigners too debunking what he preaches, probably there are some truth to what he say's 50 years ago. IF your purpose is just to live & work & w/o any political agenda then you can give CN a try - and maybe, just maybe you'll like to stay here a bit longer coz of how this place spoils it's citizens & foreigners alike.

I have seen how china was almost dust & rubble to now a bustling high tech place like Shenzhen. if you have WECHAT you can check & see what other foreigners from the states & the rest of the World are saying about china & debunking SZa, oh have you visited china already?

BTW been working here since 1996   

[Zero999]

Have you Considered Asia?
CN, VN or Singapore perhaps?

I can't imagine much worse than living in China.
Check out SerpentZA's channel for stories on living there for a decade.

well actually it's the other way around, not really sure what happened to that guy, guess a china lady turned him down perhaps?

Now China is one fo the MOST advance place to Live in, I pressume
- safety, very little crime here compared to other western places
- food & shopping, looks like the world produce has moved here
- Living in an almost cashless society via wechat pay or alipay that even paying for street food is via phone
- transportation is above the rest of the world, i guess, almost all buses here are Electric, some cities now have driverless taxi, high speed train @320kph, affordable cars
- Most of the high tech that's coming out right now are coming from here
- 4 seasons & entertainment, like I said the world has move here except for those that listen to black propaganda. 

in the beginning serpentza was all praises for china then suddenly the bashing, there have been many many videos from other foreigners too debunking what he preaches, probably there are some truth to what he say's 50 years ago. IF your purpose is just to live & work & w/o any political agenda then you can give CN a try - and maybe, just maybe you'll like to stay here a bit longer coz of how this place spoils it's citizens & foreigners alike.

I have seen how china was almost dust & rubble to now a bustling high tech place like Shenzhen. if you have WECHAT you can check & see what other foreigners from the states & the rest of the World are saying about china & debunking SZa, oh have you visited china already?

BTW been working here since 1996 

Going from what I've heard, China depends on where you live. I'm not sure about the food safety, given the various scandals: sewer oil, tainted baby milk, soy sauce made with human hair. And in how is a cashless society a good thing? It just makes you more vulnerable. It was bad enough in the UK, with the debanking of Nigel Farage.

[coppice]

Have you Considered Asia?
CN, VN or Singapore perhaps?

I can't imagine much worse than living in China.
Check out SerpentZA's channel for stories on living there for a decade.

SerpentZA lived there for a decade, married local women (I think he had more than one marriage), and is ultimately pissed off that circumstances drove him out of the place. He's just itching to go back. Seems like he found that China had enormous appeal. How can you base your view of life in China on one grumpy, whiny, disgruntled reporter? There is much that is bad in China. There is much that is good. If you think SerpentZA's videos reasonably identify those two categories you are badly mistaken.

[unseenninja]

From what I am seeing, Switzerland is on the verge of declining - may be not obvious yet, but it's already not what it used to be. Still, a strong industry in high-tech areas, if you have the skills.

Scandinavia is possibly a good option, and yes, English is no problem there. Which is a good thing, because their local languages are not easy to learn IMO. The cost of living tends to be very high, but salaries are proportional. Just make sure you negotiate your salary according to the local context, and not according to your own references from your home country.

Swedish is actually quite easy to learn. I don't consider myself to be an adept at languages, but it took me just a couple of years to get to grips with Swedish. The hardest part of learning Swedish is that as soon as a Swede hears that you speak English, they immediately start speaking English with you. One of the first phrases I learned was the Swedish equivalent of "Please speak Swedish to me, how else can I learn the language?".

Out of Norway, Denmark and Sweden, Sweden has the cheapest cost of living. Finding somewhere to live at a reasonable price is hard though in any large city and the capital is a nightmare. I'm glad I moved here. The lack of rigid hierarchies at work is like a breath of fresh air compared to the UK. I'd last about five minutes in a UK company these days.
 

[BrianHG]

If you are going to move, wherever it may be, make sure you will be moving upward at least 4-5 fold.  Otherwise, you may be in for more headaches than it is worth.

[Andy Chee]

- Living in an almost cashless society via wechat pay or alipay that even paying for street food is via phone

Cashless is a bad idea in a social credit system.

i.e. if the government decides that you're a bad actor, they can shut off your digital money supply

[Bud]

That is exactly what happened here with the truckers Covid protest.