Author Topic: The Rigol DS1052E (Read 652678 times)

mxmxmx · « **Reply #400 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:34:39 pm »

Here, Rigol UltraScope is working fine under Windows Vista x64 using the Agilent IO Libraries.

Simon · « **Reply #401 on:** March 21, 2010, 01:37:29 pm »

nope no go with the NI libraries, where do I find the agilent ones ?

I am downloading the rigol ultrascope(visa) so maybe some hope ? only thing I'm wondering is can they rewrite ultrascope to tamper with the scopes we have "upgraded" to make them into what they were again ?

Michael · « **Reply #402 on:** March 21, 2010, 05:10:59 pm »

Simon , i just tried it on a clean win7 x64. The NiVisa runtime works.
I've downloaded visa441runtime.exe and only installed the usb part during custom install.

I found that the usb driver is supplied with win7 (propably vista too).
You just need the attached .inf file to make windows show the Rigol as
'Usb test and measurement device'.
But i fail to register visa32.dll ... i don't want to install this 40MB runtime package just to talk to my scope

Any ideas anyone?

Simon · « **Reply #403 on:** March 21, 2010, 05:25:44 pm »

hm I just ran the default setup

Rodan · « **Reply #404 on:** March 22, 2010, 08:18:35 pm »

I'm running Win7 64bit. To make it work, I downloaded visa420full.exe from NI's website. It launched fine, and worked like a charm. I was able to easily send the necessary commands. Also, apparently you don't even have to use a real serial, just the proper prefix is all that is needed. Or at least it worked for me, it has been working great for several days now.

edit: The reason i downloaded the 4.2 version is that it was small, and if it worked in VIsta it would work in 7 most likely. Also, with 7 I didn't need a driver. I plugged the scope in before I installed any software and it found it, and it worked.

Rodan · « **Reply #405 on:** March 23, 2010, 05:29:40 am »

Just for kicks I tried Visa 4.6.2 and it also works fine.

As a side note, since upgrading to 100MHz has anyone experienced any weirdnesses with calibrating the probes that came with the unit? After going to 100MHz unless I turn BW Limit on when I calibrate the probes, I get a very jumpy square wave that won't lock on using auto acquire, or even manually trying for that matter.

My guess is since the BW has increased to beyond 100MHz, it is picking up some very high order harmonics or some interference from the rudimentary square wave generator built into the scope and causing the scope to trigger improperly. As a test I tried using some 60MHz probes I had laying around for another scope, and they don't exhibit this problem. I also never experienced this problem until I modded to 100MHz. Oh, well I just thought it was an interesting problem and also shows that the BW must have increased.

Does the DS1102 come with the same probes? If so, does it have this goofy behavior when trying to calibrate the probes?

Mark_O · « **Reply #406 on:** March 23, 2010, 06:05:24 am »

Rodan,
> Does the DS1102 come with the same probes? <

Same as what?

What's the partID on your probes? I.e., RPxxxx. I think the 1102E's ship with RP1300's (rated 300 MHz @10x). I got RP3200's with my DS1102CD (rated 350 MHz).

BTW, the Cal output is only 1 kHz, so I'd be surprised if it had significant harmonics beyond 100 MHz. Stick your probe on there, and run the FFT on it.

- Mark

rf-loop · « **Reply #407 on:** March 23, 2010, 06:36:34 am »

I have some of both DS1102E and DS1052E's. Both models come to me in Rigol original factory packages. All both models have RP2200 (rated as 150MHz @ 10:1)

I have make parallel tests with commandmodified machines (no hw mod). original 1102 modified to 1052 and original 1052 modified to 1102. No other differencies but normal variations between individual units. Differencies are not markable between individual units, normal (maybe) random small differencies. All units are arrived FW020202.

I have not see any difference in probe cal output after mod.

Allways remember run selfcal after modification. (after 30minute warm up and nothing connected to any scope I/O)

My opinion is that problem is now somewhere else than mod itself... but also there need be careful with opinions becouse there are slight product variations and different HW revisions...

Simon · « **Reply #408 on:** March 23, 2010, 07:42:00 am »

Quote from: Rodan on March 23, 2010, 05:29:40 am

Just for kicks I tried Visa 4.6.2 and it also works fine.

As a side note, since upgrading to 100MHz has anyone experienced any weirdnesses with calibrating the probes that came with the unit? After going to 100MHz unless I turn BW Limit on when I calibrate the probes, I get a very jumpy square wave that won't lock on using auto acquire, or even manually trying for that matter.

My guess is since the BW has increased to beyond 100MHz, it is picking up some very high order harmonics or some interference from the rudimentary square wave generator built into the scope and causing the scope to trigger improperly. As a test I tried using some 60MHz probes I had laying around for another scope, and they don't exhibit this problem. I also never experienced this problem until I modded to 100MHz. Oh, well I just thought it was an interesting problem and also shows that the BW must have increased.

Does the DS1102 come with the same probes? If so, does it have this goofy behavior when trying to calibrate the probes?

the DS1052 probes are rated at 150 MHz, I've had the same calibrating problem but I beleive i may have had it before as well, could be a burnt out generator ? maybe retry with a 555 generated signal ?

bushing · « **Reply #409 on:** March 24, 2010, 03:15:18 am »

Quote from: Mark_O on March 20, 2010, 03:56:35 am

Quote from: bushing on March 15, 2010, 12:19:30 am
The firmware images don't appear to be signed, so they could be modified easily

I wouldn't be so sure.

Oh, don't worry, I'm rarely sure of anything

I did later amend some of this to reflect some uncertainty -- https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg2824#msg2824

Quote

Quote
There's no room for a hash, so you could do whatever you want to the file.

There's no room for a hash in the header, but that desn't mean that one (or a CRC) isn't embedded in the firmware images, to detect corruption or tampering.

[

"Hash" was a poor choice of words on my part. There's no obvious sign of a cryptographic signature, or a hash, or even a CRC. The former would be the only real form of protection that would let them "fix" the problem -- the latter two could be reversed, given enough time and energy.

I've yet to see a system that used hashes or signatures that didn't have them in a fairly obvious spot. Especially if there's a nice header with other metadata. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but I find it unlikely.

Quote

Quote
Unfortunately, this means that there's no sort of bootloader which could recover corrupted firmware, so your options would be to desolder the NOR flash holding the firmware and reprogram it using a chip programmer, or try to get the 13-pin JTAG-looking connector working.

Actually, there IS a bootloader in the BlackFins, in protected space. But I doubt it would have the ability to read files off a USB stick. So in that sense, you may be right that once corrupted software was loaded, recovery would be difficult.

OR, they may have a dual-image system, where they can load a 2nd set of firmware into the other half of Flash, but not toggle control over to it until it had been successfully validated. Otherwise, once they started a reflash cycle, they'd have to blow away the original firmware first. From which point there'd be no recovery on power fail or by the time it knew the image it loaded was bad.

That could explain how they utilize 8 MB of Spansion Flash, when the firmware only occupies 4 MB. And during operation, the remaining 4 MB can be scratchpad space (like 1 MB for Reference waveform memory, as Andreas and Drieg pointed out).

I was just plain wrong about the bootloader. There are at least two, one of which has me mystified:
1) There's the BlackFin standard bootloader, the one you're referring to. It can boot from a NOR flash (or other external memory), or a SPI master, or a SPI slave, depending on strapping. (Ref: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/ADSP-BF531_BF532_BF533.pdf page 14)
2) There is an unknown mystery second-stage bootloader somewhere. BMODE1 is tied hard to Vcc, and BMODE0 is pulled low with a resistor, which means that the BF is acting as a SPI slave, and being fed code from some unknown place over SPI. It's possible the entire firmware is loaded over SPI, but it doesn't seem likely to me (not in the normal boot case). That being said, I can't find any place where that could be coming from -- nothing looks like a SPI flash, and 15 minutes of poking around with a DMM didn't find anything connected to the SPI lines except for the edge connector. The only place I can think that they might even be possibly hiding it would be the Lattice CPLD, but I couldn't find any connections between the BF's SPI bus and the Lattice chip.

I think that that second-stage bootloader is probably fairly small, and it probably loads the rest of the firmware from the NOR flash. I don't know why they bother doing this, instead of booting from the NOR flash directly -- they could be doing some sort of verification in there, but my gut feeling says they're not. The SPI lines (as well as BMODE0 and PF2 aka SSEL) are run out to an edge connector right next to the I2C EEPROM, and I believe this is what is used in the factory to load the initial firmware onto the device. These same SPI lines should be what carries the normal bootloader, but I haven't had a chance to open my scope back up and watch those lines with an LA -- if anyone else does that, I'd love to hear about it, because now it's bugging me.

The dual-image idea doesn't seem very likely to me either -- but at this point, I'm just guessing because I have nothing to go on and am too much of a coward to risk bricking my scope to prove a point

opus131 · « **Reply #410 on:** March 24, 2010, 04:08:24 am »

I bought a DS1052E in December after seeing Dave's eevblog about the Fluke 87-V meter - the DS1052E is in that blog.
I am really pleased to have found this thread. I found KTP's summary in #349 of the software method helpful. I had
successfully used "echo" and "cat" on /dev/usbmtc0 to send "*IDN?", but I didn't like the timeout messages that
accompanied reading usbmtc0. I have a dual serial port PCI card in my gnu/linux computer and I connected ttyS0 to the
DSO using various adapters and an LED monitor I built about 25 years ago. Then I searched for a decent terminal
emulator since I find using "echo" and "cat" quaintly archaic, and never did find "seyon" easy to use. I found a very nice
one called "CuteCom", as easy as
$ sudo apt-get install cutecom or rather, on my ubuntu system,
# apt-get install cutecom
CuteCom can be configured to send only a line feed and I was soon ready to send the commands to change the
DSO version and then serial number. I used my own serial number with the second "D" in it changed to a "B".
It was great seeing the 2 ns grid resolution on the horizontal scale and the system information showing DS1102E.

Today I did some bandwidth tests.
I used my FT-817 amateur bands radio transceiver on its half Watt setting at 146.52 MHz and sent a carrier
through a 50 ohm attenuator so that a lab grade power meter could show the actual power out of the attenuator.
That measurement showed 6.4 dBm. Next I used a precision 50 ohm dummy load in a T connector right on the
channel one BNC connector. With the probe setting to x1 in the DSO, I measured a peak-to-peak voltage of
1030 millivolts, which across 50 ohms implies 4.2 dBm. The DSO loss is then 2.2 dB at 146.52 MHz.
Setting the probe to x10 and putting the RP2200 probe into the same T connector and load with the same cable
from the attenuator, I measured 800 mV p-p corresponding to 2.0 dBm. This means that the combination of probe
and DSO drops 4.4 dB, implying that the probe itself also drops 2.2 dB.
I do not plan to to change back to a DS1052E and do the measurements again.

This modification shows that this manufacturer doesn't enhance the circuitry for the higher specification DSO -
it appears to pass on the cost of a low pass filter to all customers and commits sabotage in the firmware.

Simon · « **Reply #411 on:** March 24, 2010, 07:46:52 am »

hey could ultrascope work over the com port ? after the money spent on the cable and time modding it I may as well use if if it's simpler, wait in the mean time for rigol to get serious about vista/7

mxmxmx · « **Reply #412 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:49:06 pm »

Quote from: Simon on March 24, 2010, 07:46:52 am

hey could ultrascope work over the com port ? after the money spent on the cable and time modding it I may as well use if if it's simpler, wait in the mean time for rigol to get serious about vista/7

Yes, Ultrascope also works over the RS232 connection. However, I'm not sure if you need a working VISA installation for that as well.

Anyway, I still fail to see the problem. Install any VISA implementation which supports your OS (e.g. Agilent IO Libraries, NI Visa), plug in your scope via USB and run Ultrascope. I had no problem at all doing that under Windows Vista x64, so I don't suspect Windows 7 to be any different. Given the fact that Rigol made their scopes compliant to the USB Test and Measurement Class (TMC), I don't see why they need to bother to "get serious about vista/7".

Simon · « **Reply #413 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:56:08 pm »

well mine plain refuses, might be something to do with the fact that I may need to track down the original driver and get rid of it. I have the RS232 cable and I don't think drivers are required so might as well give it a go

JimBeam · « **Reply #414 on:** March 25, 2010, 02:36:30 pm »

Some more traces:

Generator: Wavetek 1855-600
- lin. sweep
- output: 55 dbmV nominal

Scope: DS1052E(mod)
- peak det. on
- 75 Ohm BNC T-Termination
- probe erroneously set to 1:10 - thus 5V/div...

1) Sweep 2..100 MHz
2) Sweep 100..200 MHz
3) Sweep 2..200 MHz

darkith · « **Reply #415 on:** March 27, 2010, 01:34:42 pm »

Been on the market for a new scope (my poorly calibrated 20mhz analog's pots and switches are getting spotty). I had looked at the Rigol C or D series previously, but held off.
Course, when I saw this, I had to act (before Rigol updates the firmware or releases a new model). Picked up my 1052E from MIB Tools for a bit over $400 USD shipped EMS to Canada. Arrived last night. Had no DB9-DB9 serial cable on hand since all I had were DB25s. Gave up on finding one, scavenged a few old serial mice and put together a 3-wire serial cable.

Now enjoying my DS1102E.
Thanks all,
D.

mountaindude · « **Reply #416 on:** March 28, 2010, 08:08:30 pm »

Quote from: darkith on March 27, 2010, 01:34:42 pm

...
Picked up my 1052E from MIB Tools for a bit over $400 USD shipped EMS to Canada. Arrived last night.
...

Anyone else have any experiences with MIB Tools to share? Just had a look at their site - doesn't say what currency the prices are in... If it's Hong Kong dollars the prices are almost too good - any catches?

Thx
G

EEVblog · « **Reply #417 on:** March 29, 2010, 12:00:36 am »

Crikey, it'll take me ages to go through all these back posts and stuff!
Anyone got a pointer to the exact method used?

Thanks
Dave.

darkith · « **Reply #418 on:** March 29, 2010, 01:00:39 am »

KTP's summary is pretty good:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg3010#msg3010
3-wire serial at 9600.

Note that you can use your serial number, just change DS1EDxxx to DS1EBxxx

D.

darkith · « **Reply #419 on:** March 29, 2010, 01:13:50 am »

Quote from: mountaindude on March 28, 2010, 08:08:30 pm

Quote from: darkith on March 27, 2010, 01:34:42 pm
...
Picked up my 1052E from MIB Tools for a bit over $400 USD shipped EMS to Canada. Arrived last night.
...

Anyone else have any experiences with MIB Tools to share? Just had a look at their site - doesn't say what currency the prices are in... If it's Hong Kong dollars the prices are almost too good - any catches?

Thx
G

No way are those prices HKD. The $549 on the website is probably the same list price as the $549 USD but it now on ebay. I'd *strongly* suggest emailing them directly for a better price or making an offer through ebay. They were pretty quick to match DealExtreme's EMS shipping price (which according to a forum post has been out of stock or slow to ship for a while). They also sweetened the deal with a free gift...a USB card reader. Wheeeeee.....

Cheers,
D.

EEVblog · « **Reply #420 on:** March 29, 2010, 02:41:08 am »

Quote from: dimlow on March 18, 2010, 07:57:45 am

Quote from: rossmoffett on March 18, 2010, 05:11:50 am
Dave has taken a break, he posted a note in the "Announcements" forum saying he's going walkabout for a while. I'm sure the deluge of e-mails and consistent output of quality video blogs has been taxing his time for a while now!

Yea, but that was on the 9th he has posted a new video blog on the 16th so i assumed he was back.

I had already filmed and uploaded the last drive-time one before I went away. I just logged in via my phone for a few minutes while on holiday and made it live

Keen viewers would have already found ways to find it back on the 9th.

I should have filmed a couple more episodes before I went and progressively released them, then no one would have known I was gone!

Dave.

jakent · « **Reply #421 on:** March 29, 2010, 06:02:19 am »

I went ahead and ordered from DealExtreme. They appear to be rolling out the DS1052E on schedule at the moment.

I ordered on March 23rd with EMS and got shipping confirmation on the 26th. It should be on a plane headed towards the US very shortly (today?) according to the tracking information.

I'm looking forward to replacing my ancient B+K 1474 30 MHz scope that requires percussive force to operate properly.

Thank you all.

JasperNL · « **Reply #422 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:00:56 pm »

Quote from: jakent on March 29, 2010, 06:02:19 am

I went ahead and ordered from DealExtreme. They appear to be rolling out the DS1052E on schedule at the moment.

I ordered on March 23rd with EMS and got shipping confirmation on the 26th. It should be on a plane headed towards the US very shortly (today?) according to the tracking information.

I'm looking forward to replacing my ancient B+K 1474 30 MHz scope that requires percussive force to operate properly. Thank you all.

Are you sure the package is heading towards you? I ordered mine DS1052E from DealExtreme a month ago and it is still out of stock according to the status. It think your status will change to out of stock in a couple of days

xoom · « **Reply #423 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:19:37 pm »

from DX this scope is out of stock ?

(( im planning to order it in April.. let me know what situation is now

Simon · « **Reply #424 on:** March 29, 2010, 05:31:00 pm »

Quote from: EEVblog on March 29, 2010, 02:41:08 am

Quote from: dimlow on March 18, 2010, 07:57:45 am
Quote from: rossmoffett on March 18, 2010, 05:11:50 am
Dave has taken a break, he posted a note in the "Announcements" forum saying he's going walkabout for a while. I'm sure the deluge of e-mails and consistent output of quality video blogs has been taxing his time for a while now!

Yea, but that was on the 9th he has posted a new video blog on the 16th so i assumed he was back.

I had already filmed and uploaded the last drive-time one before I went away. I just logged in via my phone for a few minutes while on holiday and made it live
Keen viewers would have already found ways to find it back on the 9th.

I should have filmed a couple more episodes before I went and progressively released them, then no one would have known I was gone!

Dave.

well your absence in commenting on the fury surrounding the easy of hacking the scope made people wonder


EEVblog Main Site	EEVblog on Youtube	EEVblog on Twitter	EEVblog on Facebook	EEVblog on Odysee

Author Topic: The Rigol DS1052E (Read 652678 times)

Rodan

Rodan

Share me