The Hyperloop: BUSTED

[soldar]

I've heard it's going to be just a cargo delivery system at first?

Totally unrelated to the hyperloop but I always thought that in densely populated areas the old pneumatic tube would make sense. With computer automatic controls you could send a small item, like a book or a phone, across town, in no time and much faster than by courier.

I have always thought it would be worth looking into this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube
 

[PlainName]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics) Have you ever been in subway when train is nearing and you feel how air is pushed out of the tube?

How does the train being out in the open fix that?

Simple. Air can go sideways.  Not pushed all the way through the tube in front of train and some of it passing through the gap between tube and train.

There was a bit more to my post which you appear to have missed. It's a solution to a strawman problem.

[wraper]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics) Have you ever been in subway when train is nearing and you feel how air is pushed out of the tube?

How does the train being out in the open fix that?

Simple. Air can go sideways.  Not pushed all the way through the tube in front of train and some of it passing through the gap between tube and train.

There was a bit more to my post which you appear to have missed. It's a solution to a strawman problem.

Air resistance is a huge problem. If it wasn't, Chinese Maglev would run at over 1000 km/h. And I wasn't even talking about Hyperloop. Just subway train vs free air train.
Why do you think Japanese Shinkansen has such shape?

[Tepe]

Why do you think Japanese Shinkansen has such shape?

Because they think it looks cool? 

[wraper]

Because they think it looks cool? 

It's not aerodynamic at all unlike Shinkansen, lower part is for cleaning snow and debris on rails. It seems to have air guides for pushing smoke above the train together with incoming air. Also if you look how those steam locomotives were made, it's quite natural it has front of such shape. Most of them had two small wheels at front.

[PlainName]

Air resistance is a huge problem. If it wasn't, Chinese Maglev would run at over 1000 km/h.

Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube. Having the train OUTSIDE the tube, as in this girl's solution, does not fix that problem.

[wraper]

Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube.

I did not say it fixes it entirely. But train in free air certainly has less problems with air resistance than train in tube.

Having the train OUTSIDE the tube, as in this girl's solution, does not fix that problem.

Where did I say it's not an idiotic proposal? Combining worst of both.

[PlainName]

But train in free air certainly has less problems

Are my posts being censored or something? Appropriate bits being chopped out so you don't see them? I don't think I am using big words or deliberately trying to be misunderstood, so I am lost as to how the central point of all this is being overlooked every cycle.

Ah well. I give up.

[nctnico]

Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube.

I did not say it fixes it entirely. But train in free air certainly has less problems with air resistance than train in tube.

I have a feeling that the speed at which it really doesn't matter is lower than you think. Better run some numbers on air friction in a tunnel versus free air. Even in open space (outside a tunnel) air doesn't like to move very much.

[wraper]

Are my posts being censored or something? Appropriate bits being chopped out so you don't see them?

I did not chop anything appropriate. I quoted parts I commented on. I avoid making posts where quote in 10x larger than what I wrote myself and it's not even certain on what particularly I comment. If you want to read full original post, feel free to click the link on top of quote.

I don't think I am using big words or deliberately trying to be misunderstood, so I am lost as to how the central point of all this is being overlooked every cycle.

I did not see any clear central point of what you wrote. FYI, IMHO Hyperloop concept as such might be feasible given it can be made cheap enough and technical problems solved.

[wraper]

Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube.

I did not say it fixes it entirely. But train in free air certainly has less problems with air resistance than train in tube.

I have a feeling that the speed at which it really doesn't matter is lower than you think. Better run some numbers on air friction in a tunnel versus free air. Even in open space (outside a tunnel) air doesn't like to move very much.

What i wrote is just a comparison of 2 bads. It matters even at relatively low speed, like 50 km/h.

[maginnovision]

I wouldn't both arguing with wraper, he's part of the musk cult and seems to defend everything regardless of merit.

[wraper]

I wouldn't both arguing with wraper, he's part of the musk cult and seems to defend everything regardless of merit.

And then there are nut jobs who are triggered just by hearing his name. BTW thanks for Ad hominem attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Also I never said that Hyperloop will work or is necessarily feasible for real life transportation given technical problems need to be solved.

[EEVblog]

I've heard it's going to be just a cargo delivery system at first?

Totally unrelated to the hyperloop but I always thought that in densely populated areas the old pneumatic tube would make sense. With computer automatic controls you could send a small item, like a book or a phone, across town, in no time and much faster than by courier.

I have always thought it would be worth looking into this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube

This is what you end up with when you design point-to-point systems:

[wraper]

This is what you end up with when you design point-to-point systems:

And this if what you get when you don't

[beanflying]

Still defending your God @Wraper  Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is 

[nctnico]

Still defending your God @Wraper  Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is 

Then please enlighten us with your facts. So far all I have seen from people trying to debunk hyperloop is just a heap load of smelly FUD. That isn't engineering. That is just mindless ranting about stuff they don't have the background and/or knowledge about. And my proof of that is very solid: there are several companies putting their own money on the line to investigate whether hyperloop is actually feasible or not. These people don't do off-the-cuff statements based on what their underbelly is saying today; they do real engineering. To me that is 100000000000000000000 times more interesting than just another person trying to add more clickbait to Yuoutube. It is the real engineers which get new technology out there and they should receive way more respect. Unfortunately being negative and set in old ways seems to be the modus-operandi nowadays. No wonder so little people want to get involved in engineering. Before they know it their work is belittled.

I think I'm going to watch 'from the earth to the moon' again. Much more interesting than rant videos on Youtube.

[wraper]

Still defending your God @Wraper  Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is 

Says rational one who rejected my suggestions on PC hardware because of Elon Musk.

[EEVblog]

Still defending your God @Wraper  Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is 

Then please enlighten us with your facts. So far all I have seen from people trying to debunk hyperloop is just a heap load of smelly FUD. That isn't engineering. That is just mindless ranting about stuff they don't have the background and/or knowledge about. And my proof of that is very solid: there are several companies putting their own money on the line to investigate whether hyperloop is actually feasible or not.

No, they all seem convinced that it's feasible and are going full steam ahead with that mindset.
You wouldn't be wasting money and time and resources on beautiful pod design mockups and giving timelines for completion if you were just doing basic feasibility engineering.
Only when they come-a-gusta will they realise, "oh gee, it wasn't feasible after all, what a shame because our pod design is just so fantastic".

Hyperloop is basically a fancy Kickstarer project on a massive scale. Produce the hype video and all the animations and give pie-in-the-sky timelines, including "As seen in the New York Times" and endorsed my Elon Musk and Richard Branson badges on the pages to suck people into the dream, and then figure out how to make it work.

[beanflying]

They only thing I seem to remember suggesting you were wrong about was my choice of Case and going air cooled which has now passed its first mid 30 degree ambient day with flying colours so feel free to revise your incorrect post anytime you like

Musk is a self promoting tosser! The only person to benefit from the overhypedloop is him be it is personal wealth, share price or work for the Boring Company. Any benefit to the population of the world so far ZERO.

[beanflying]

Still defending your God @Wraper  Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is 

Then please enlighten us with your facts. So far all I have seen from people trying to debunk hyperloop is just a heap load of smelly FUD. That isn't engineering. That is just mindless ranting about stuff they don't have the background and/or knowledge about. And my proof of that is very solid: there are several companies putting their own money on the line to investigate whether hyperloop is actually feasible or not. These people don't do off-the-cuff statements based on what their underbelly is saying today; they do real engineering. To me that is 100000000000000000000 times more interesting than just another person trying to add more clickbait to Yuoutube. It is the real engineers which get new technology out there and they should receive way more respect. Unfortunately being negative and set in old ways seems to be the modus-operandi nowadays. No wonder so little people want to get involved in engineering. Before they know it their work is belittled.

I think I'm going to watch 'from the earth to the moon' again. Much more interesting than rant videos on Youtube.

There is no Engineering beyond the overhype to show it will work, bluff and BS that it will work is  Retrofitting it into a working real city is only one of the issues before you get near the  non facts and figures Musk has offered. Smoke and mirrors and pushed out promises are not facts or Engineering.

[wraper]

The only person to benefit from the overhypedloop is him be it is personal wealth, share price or work for the Boring Company.

Fun fact, nor he, nor Boring company are not doing any hyperloop projects as of now other than tunnel built for student competitions. All you hear is from other companies who took the idea. Also Spacex and it's subsidiary Boring company are private. So share price argument is irrelevant.

[wraper]

There is no Engineering beyond the overhype to show it will work, bluff and BS that it will work is 

What a BS. As a concept, it is completely operational, actually exists and proven to work. What's is under big question is real life implementation. What works as a concept, very often is not feasible in real life. Because of financial, safety, technical, whatever reasons.

Retrofitting it into a working real city is only one of the issues before you get near the  non facts and figures Musk has offered. Smoke and mirrors and pushed out promises are not facts or Engineering.

How about retrofitting usual subway into existing cities? How it's any different from this standpoint.

[beanflying]

So the gain to HIS PERSONAL WEALTH is not correct? The BS and SPIN of Musk benefits his net worth and those companies WITH SHARES as not all of the companies he is involved with are private or owned by him entirely. The value of assets is relevant as they are the beneficiary of the 

Quit defending your God at all costs and look at the White Elephant he is committed to to save his ego and bottom line.

[wraper]

So the gain to HIS PERSONAL WEALTH is not correct? The BS and SPIN of Musk benefits his net worth and those companies WITH SHARES as not all of the companies he is involved with are private or owned by him entirely. The value of assets is relevant as they are the beneficiary of the 

Quit defending your God at all costs and look at the White Elephant he is committed to to save his ego and bottom line.

Only Tesla is public company (shares). Dunno if you noticed but their cars sell quite well and have best performance on market.