Shoreham Airshow aircraft crashes into A27 road

[tom66]

Sadly, it would appear 7 people have been killed when a Hawker Hunter collided into the A27 during an airshow.

I am interested to know what happened here. Rather tragic. It does look as if the pilot left the loop too late, or for some reason had a lack of power.

The worst part is... all the traffic on that road. That has to be the worst possible place the aircraft could have come down.

[G0HZU]

It certainly is a tragedy, but I don't understand how (old?) people are allowed to fly old planes in a reckless manner like this over a busy public area. It's asking for trouble and you only have to look at the stats for airshow crashes to see that it's usually some old/grey ex pilot crashing an old ex military plane. I think the plane that crashed today was designed over 60 years ago.

[Mechanical Menace]

Another year, another bunch of deaths at airshows. This time the victims probably also had nothing to do with the airshow the perpetrator was participating in. If it doesn't lead to a manslaughter charge for the organisers and those who green flagged it I think it's about time we looked into changing some laws.

[Skimask]

And on CNN, they're calling it a 'stunt plane'.

Morons...

[orbiter]

It certainly is a tragedy, but I don't understand how (old?) people are allowed to fly old planes in a reckless manner like this over a busy public area. It's asking for trouble and you only have to look at the stats for airshow crashes to see that it's usually some old/grey ex pilot crashing an ex military plane.

The guy flying the Hawker Hunter was was an Ex RAF Harrier Jump-Jet pilot, so one would assume that he Is more than qualified to be flying here. There are
also suggestions that the aircraft lost power during the manoeuvre, which certainly would lessen any chances of flight recovery. 

[Mechanical Menace]

The guy flying the Hawker Hunter was was an Ex RAF Harrier Jump-Jet pilot, so one would assume that he Is more than qualified to be flying here. There are
also suggestions that the aircraft lost power during the manoeuvre, which certainly would lessen any chances of flight recovery.

The flight path shouldn't have gone anywhere off of the airfield. Those at the event have agreed that they may be involved in an accident like this. If the pilot hasn't died (and I so hope he hasn't and is banged up to hell and will live a long, extremely painful, miserable bedridden existence fully conscious but unable to communicate from now on) I hope his service record doesn't keep him out of prison. And whoever gave that flight path the green light should end up in there too. Self entitled c*nts should be allowed to put their own lives at risk for their hobbies, but the general public shouldn't be put at risk so they can get hard from showing off.

I feel for the victims and their families, I hope the murderers family feel ashamed of him.

[KJDS]

I'm saddened that the first people in the UK to be killed on the ground from an airshow crash since 1952 leads some to think that all rich people should be hung drawn and quartered.

We've no idea what the cause was. I do know that display flying is very very heavily regulated in the UK and that the AAIB will have a very thorough investigation into this.

[Mechanical Menace]

I'm saddened that the first people in the UK to be killed on the ground from an airshow

Those in the cars weren't at an airshow, the plane wasn't above the airfield, the only people who should have had a chance of dying should have been the crowd and staff and pilots.

crash since 1952 leads some to think that all rich people should be hung drawn and quartered.

No, I think the pilot if he survived, the organisers, and those who gave the event the go ahead and permission to fly anywhere else but over the airfield should have the book thrown at them. They should have their day in court, not be lynched.

We've no idea what the cause was. I do know that display flying is very very heavily regulated in the UK and that the AAIB will have a very thorough investigation into this.

We may not know the cause of the crash but we do know arrogance and bad planning was the cause of the dead non participants, if the route didn't leave the airfield only those who consented to the risk would have been exposed to it.

[electr_peter]

Sad thing to see, hope pilot and people on the ground are ok.

Most likely cause of crash - death loop type manoeuvre starting from the almost the ground level. That is far too low!!! Such manoeuvres almost always forces the plane to end up lower than the start position. Multiple air crashes related to such low flying are documented as well.
Probably a pilot error to start a loop from such a low level.

It is noteworthy that many of airplane crashes happen during airshows when performing aerobatic stunts (when compared to regular flying). Factors such as limited/restricted airspace, time limit, a desire to "show-off" skills, not 100% air worthy planes, flying too low/too slow, huge pressure on pilot to perform, possible pilot errors, etc. are all contributing to the fact that aerobatics manoeuvres during airshows are fundamentally very risky indeed.

[tom66]

There are reports that the pilot is in a "critical condition". I am shocked that he was not killed given the severity of the crash.

[G7PSK]

Would not surprise me if the cause was a flame out, the hunter was notorious for that and I don't think they ever completely cured the problem as it was something to do with the way the engines were set into the wings causing eddies.

[EEVblog]

Woah, someone captured this photo as it hit:

[EEVblog]

And this one skimming the tree tops:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shoreham-airshow-crash-after-fireball-6302887

and how did they get this shot?

[firewalker]

It seems like a frame of a video.

They should ban those events around people. And people around curves on car racing.

Alexander.

[Wytnucls]

Would not surprise me if the cause was a flame out, the hunter was notorious for that and I don't think they ever completely cured the problem as it was something to do with the way the engines were set into the wings causing eddies.

Never heard of a flame out on a Hunter. Link?
Judging by the shimmering behind the tailpipe on one of the pictures, the pilot had some thrust available.

[sleemanj]

Not the first time recovery from a low level loop at an airshow has ended badly - usually these things come down to pilot didn't reset altimeter before flight, or had it set to msl and but forgot and read it as field elevation.  Accidents happen, humans make mistakes.

That said, looks like really rather poor planning and too cramped area for an airshow with low level high speed aerobatics.

[kc3ase]

It's important to note that airshow acrobatics operate the aircrafts on the verge of stalls. If you are even 1% off there is going to be an accident. It looks as if the plane already stalled too much on the vertical ascent and with no altitude there's not much that could have been done. I don't think it was ever the pilot's intention to be over the motorway at any time during the show.

[cimmo]

and how did they get this shot?

This image clearly shows the engine producing high power (heat haze), the elevators fully or nearly fully deflected (nose up), and the flaps deployed.
I think this is consistent with the aircraft systems operating normally. It might be a very old aircraft (60 years old), but I think it was working fine, the problem was the chosen flight path. On the video one can see some wing rock shortly before impact, this is consistent with the pilot pulling maximum angle of attack in order to pull out of the dive. But by then, the laws of physics dictated that a ground impact was inevitable. Having said that, it could have been worse, just a bit more pull and the aircraft would have departed controlled flight and hit the ground much harder - and probably inverted.

I saw that exact thing happen at an airshow at Nowra a few decades ago - a Wirraway snap rolled (at about 100ft) pulling out of a modest dive and went in inverted. Without the (pilot induced?) aerodynamic stall/snap roll, the pilot of the Wirraway would have pulled out OK.

Regarding the engine failure idea - The RR Avon engined Hunters did experience compressor stalls during gun firing - the intakes sucked up the gun gasses and the Avons didn't like it (some Hunters had a completely different engine - the BS Sapphire - and it was immune to this). The solution was a 'fuel dipper' circuit that would temporarily reduce the fuel flow while the guns were being fired.
But that situation had nothing to do with this incident.

[TheElectricChicken]

People don't go to watch a biker jump 100 cars, they go to watch him crash. Same with airshows, people go there to see crashes more than just enjoying the noise while you wait. Beats dying of consumption anyday.

Oh I miss the Soviet days when there were spectacles to look at, like the largest ever plane and shuttle, both Soviet made, on show.

the thing never did crash, but you could fit a whole airshow inside it, maybe with lots of crashes 

Oh, those were the golden days of airshows. (sigh) even crashes don't cheer me up as much as they should nowdays... 

[IO390]

I'm reposting this from another forum:

I was on the flight line and saw the crash from several hundred yards away. I will not offer my thoughts on the direct cause of the crash (for obvious reasons, given the nature of the internet), however I will let you know what I saw.

He flew in from North Weald, and begun his display by making a pass along runway 02, before climbing, turning left and flying directly towards where I was (in the crowd near the A27). It had flaps down at this point, and was flying fairly slowly. He was flying on an easterly heading. He then turned left again, flying on a heading of around 050. Note that I may be wrong on this – he may have done some other manoeuvres beforehand but as one can imagine, the shock of seeing that happen didn’t help my memory.

Anyway, he climbed up to an altitude of, in my opinion, 1000-1500ft. What he was performing was clearly a half cuban 8, which is when one climbs up, then rolls inverted before completing a downwards half loop and continuing on (looks like half of the number 8 on its side). Anyway, after the climb he rolled inverted and began descending inverted. I could still see that his flaps were down and I assumed that he would roll into a turn and continue (as he did when he first arrived at the show, after the low pass). I saw him fly down, and by the time the aircraft was level, he was at about 100ft. However, he was descending very fast and at a very high angle of attack. At this point, the wings began to wobble and he was still pulling up – the nose was up about 10 degrees and the aircraft was still descending very fast, at a very high angle of attack. It then disappeared behind the trees and a massive fireball appeared. Even more unfortunately, “Magic Moments” by Perry Como was playing over the tannoy at the time, which was stopped immediately after the crash, and the commentator said “what a beautiful aircraft” a few seconds before impact.

I noticed myself, along with just about everyone else, staring in disbelief with my jaw dropped. I turned to the chap standing next to me and we exchanged looks of “what the f***”. I briefly discussed what I saw with a couple of other people (such as flaps down, etc) before returning to the hangars. I was hanging around at the college, and returned there for the rest of the day. I was there with my friend, whose father is a member of Raynet, which is a bunch of HAMs who help coordinate things. He had a good idea of what happened (police etc… were in the same room, and the meeting to decide what happened with the airshow took place there) and the last number he heard was 10 fatalities, not including pilot, and some people badly burned on the ground from the fuel.

The show is cancelled for tomorrow, and the airport is closed. The A27 is closed and there is apparently damage to the road surface. All in all, a pretty shit day and I’d probably have rather stayed in bed.

Edit: some additions added below.

No more flying took place after the crash. I think that had it crashed in a field and no one hurt, some more flying may have taken place later on (such as the Hurricane crash in 2007). But due to the fact that it killed a number of people on the ground, this obviously made it a little more serious.

[IO390]

In reply to Dave as to how they got that shot, I wondered the same thing. Either someone long-lensed it from the hill near the Shoreham flyover, or they were on a car on the flyover.

[IO390]

Not the first time recovery from a low level loop at an airshow has ended badly - usually these things come down to pilot didn't reset altimeter before flight, or had it set to msl and but forgot and read it as field elevation.  Accidents happen, humans make mistakes.

That said, looks like really rather poor planning and too cramped area for an airshow with low level high speed aerobatics.

As I said above, it's a reverse half cuban he was performing, and not a loop as was stated by many news outlets.

Altimeter settings are set to MSL, and are adjusted according to the air pressure which is told to pilots by ATC, and it's also recorded on the ATIS. Altimeters are only set away from MSL if one is flying in on airways at a flight level, at which point it is set to 1013mB or 29.92 inches. Shoreham is next to the coast and is about 10ft above sea level, if that.

[TheElectricChicken]

Somehow I'm thinking that the pilot was NOT flying on instruments, same way you don't read and do a floor routine at the olympics at the same time, like, usually. So altimeter calibration in my opinion had nothing to do with it.

[John Coloccia]

Not the first time recovery from a low level loop at an airshow has ended badly - usually these things come down to pilot didn't reset altimeter before flight, or had it set to msl and but forgot and read it as field elevation.  Accidents happen, humans make mistakes.

That said, looks like really rather poor planning and too cramped area for an airshow with low level high speed aerobatics.

As I said above, it's a reverse half cuban he was performing, and not a loop as was stated by many news outlets.

Altimeter settings are set to MSL, and are adjusted according to the air pressure which is told to pilots by ATC, and it's also recorded on the ATIS. Altimeters are only set away from MSL if one is flying in on airways at a flight level, at which point it is set to 1013mB or 29.92 inches. Shoreham is next to the coast and is about 10ft above sea level, if that.

It's not much of a reverse half cuban, to be honest.  Never even came close to finishing his roll.  I would have to think that whatever went wrong happened pretty early.

Somehow I'm thinking that the pilot was NOT flying on instruments, same way you don't read and do a floor routine at the olympics at the same time, like, usually. So altimeter calibration in my opinion had nothing to do with it.

Take it from someone who used to do aerobatic flying.  You worry a great deal about the altimeter if you're anywhere near the ground.

[IO390]

Not the first time recovery from a low level loop at an airshow has ended badly - usually these things come down to pilot didn't reset altimeter before flight, or had it set to msl and but forgot and read it as field elevation.  Accidents happen, humans make mistakes.

That said, looks like really rather poor planning and too cramped area for an airshow with low level high speed aerobatics.

As I said above, it's a reverse half cuban he was performing, and not a loop as was stated by many news outlets.


Altimeter settings are set to MSL, and are adjusted according to the air pressure which is told to pilots by ATC, and it's also recorded on the ATIS. Altimeters are only set away from MSL if one is flying in on airways at a flight level, at which point it is set to 1013mB or 29.92 inches. Shoreham is next to the coast and is about 10ft above sea level, if that.

It's not much of a reverse half cuban, to be honest.  Never even came close to finishing his roll.  I would have to think that whatever went wrong happened pretty early.

re: altimeter calibration
Take it from someone who used to do aerobatic flying.  You worry a great deal about the altimeter if you're anywhere near the ground.

Reverse half cuban. As I said above, he climbed up, rolled inverted before pulling down. He then didn't make it out of the downwards line. Ran out of energy and went into an accelerated stall.

Edit: picture added