Shenzhen: The Silicon Valley of Hardware - WIRED Documentary

[Rick Law]

This kind of thing really worrys me in terms of china & the future.

I'm 20, beginning to get into electronics design more seriously as a job... am I barking up the wrong tree? Am I about to have no viable future career / healthy pay-check because the next Generation of ultra-performing chinese students will take every oppertunity I can get my hands on?

What can I do about it or am I going to have no job options in 20 years when I'm 40?

20 year career is a long time.  It is a tall order to have a "safe career" for 20 years.  Even if China doesn't exist, disruptive technology can destroy your career just as well.

Is China an impending thread?  The answer is: "it doesn't matter!"

If it is not China, it could be India or anywhere else.  So assume the industry will have someone upending it - more than once in that 20 years.  While enjoying the fruit of success today, don't overlook getting ready to deal with disruption that will occur tomorrow.  Assume it will happen, from someone, somewhere.

Read the job ads monthly or quarterly.  It will show you the next best thing.  Side benefit, it may also tell you about the danger you may be in.  (I saw an ad from a company my friend worked for.  They were looking for someone with experience along the line of what my friend did, with specific language skills and one who doesn't mind travel "staying in XXXX for extended period..."  I told him good likelihood his job is being outsourced...  he didn't believe me, but less than a year later...)

Easy to say, hard to do:  Knowing that any specific valuable career will have a life time shorter than desire.  Stay with the times - make sure that you are up-to-date with your knowledge constantly, and watch the market constantly.  Re-engineer yourself as needed.

Even harder to do:  Don't hang-on too long.  Sometimes, by getting better, one can stay on longer (be the last to be laid-off/let go).  Instead, find your next job before your current job's expiration becomes imminent.  When you still have a paying job, you have value to an employer.  When you don't, you don't.  Things get at lot harder when the rug is already out from under you.

The book "Competing for the Future" talks about how a corporation should deal with it.  The same strategies apply to individuals.  (Re) developing core competency and discern changes before it hits you.  Good book to read.

[Marco]

How does lack of ethnic diversity relates to (or results in) a less comprehensive education?

It results in a poorer fit for a comprehensive curriculum because of the generally wider IQ distribution.

[Cerebus]

How does lack of ethnic diversity relates to (or results in) a less comprehensive education?

It results in a poorer fit for a comprehensive curriculum because of the generally wider IQ distribution.

If you're implying that a more ethnically diverse population implies a wider IQ distribution then that sounds like racist bullshit to me.

[helius]

"Comprehensive" refers to graduating everybody, and the precept that "everyone can learn". It isn't about the breadth of the curriculum, but much to the contrary. [Look up "comprehensive school" in your dictionary and note how different its meaning from the root word.]

Several comments have centered around the perceived narrowness of Eastern culture and education, and their lack of creativity. Can they quantify that? How would you start?
I would make a different comparison. The US has 4.0 practicing lawyers per 1,000 population, one of the highest in the world. In China, the best data I could find puts the corresponding prevalence at 0.09. Which country do you think has a more dynamic economy?

[Marco]

If you're implying that a more ethnically diverse population implies a wider IQ distribution then that sounds like racist bullshit to me.

No, it's the simple truth. No matter how small the influence of race on IQ, there being none is close to impossible. So it will widen it.

If it makes you feel better, I'm perfectly willing to admit that the more homogeneous cultural attitude towards education in the families of the kids helps and it might be the overriding factor (although I don't believe it is in the US). But don't ask me to believe in systemic racism.

[Rick Law]

Almost every reader on this forum will agree that if a German was adopted by Chinese parent and grew up in Shenzhen: he would study like the Chinese, and grown up to do exactly the same thing the other Chinese are doing.  So in general we believe culture is far more important than race.

Another evidence is the Chinese immigrants in the USA, on average, the first generation almost universally do well in school.  The second generation less so.  By the third generation, they are like everyone else in terms of academics.

Silicon Valley used to have a certain culture.   The magic there exceeded my ability to describe them, but I do know it whenever I was in Silicon Valley.  My fear is not what the Chinese are doing, but instead, what are WE doing.  It seems that the Silicon Valley magic is gone.  Like what was a forest is now a large field with just a few California Red Wood (giant) trees.  And these "giant trees" are increasing rely on something called H1B or out sourced altogether.

How are WE fostering our next innovation?  Do we even have an ecosystem to support innovation?  Otherwise, it is not going to be fun for the developed nations.

[CraigHB]

I've read that H1B is kind of dead anymore.  For anyone that doesn't know what that is, it's the importation of labor from overseas.  I know companies are still doing it, but not to the point they once were.  Evidently the cultural barrier causes problems not justified by the cost savings in labor.

As far as competing with China industrially it can't be done product for product.  It takes the creation of new products to stay ahead.  Still production often goes to China right away, but engineering and management remain domestic until a product becomes mature.  That provides at least some creation of local revenue and jobs.

[dannyf]

It seems that the Silicon Valley magic is gone. 

they are busy adopting AA to employment.

How are WE fostering our next innovation?  Do we even have an ecosystem to support innovation?  Otherwise, it is not going to be fun for the developed nations.

a great question. Something you will never hear the politicians debating about. they are busy trying to figure out who's a man and who's a woman and which bathroom the confused should use.

[zapta]

I've read that H1B is kind of dead anymore.

The demand exceeds the quota.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/12/technology/h1b-cap-visa-fy-2017/

[dannyf]

"What can I do about it or am I going to have no job options in 20 years when I'm 40?"

That's a very difficult and personal question for anyone to answer.

First of all, if the Chinese are good, be better. That means finding something that you care about or enjoy doing.

There are always things that needs to be done locally: management, marketing, most services jobs, politics, etc. They cannot be done efficiently from far away.

Then there is relativism: you don't need to outrun the Chinese to survive. You just need to outrun the slowest of your fellow countrymen to survive.

Those are just some examples and I'm sure you can think up a few more. No need to worry about something so far out, as long as you position yourself well today.

[tggzzz]

The anti-intellectualism in the west bothers me very much too. I think it originated in the US, and largely driven by the way their media works (especially tv, when that was the dominant medium). Everything needs to be bite-sized, easy to understand, and spectacular.

It worries me too. However, it didn't originate in the US; it is more widespread. TV isn't the dominant factor, although it certainly reflects and amplifies the attitude.

[dannyf]

"The anti-intellectualism in the west bothers me very much too"

There are two kinds of anti intellectualism.

1. Anti common sense: where people reject status quo for the sake of anti status quo, or going against the norm. That's what you see in the videos.

2. Anti elitism: where people refuse to take what's being jammed down their throats by the ruling elite and the media. People refuse to stop thinking and be governed . you see that in brexit, in Columbia, across most of Europe and in the us as well.

Anti elitism is democracy at its best. If 50 years of failures aren't enough to wake up voters, what else will?

[Cerebus]

If you're implying that a more ethnically diverse population implies a wider IQ distribution then that sounds like racist bullshit to me.

No, it's the simple truth. No matter how small the influence of race on IQ, there being none is close to impossible. So it will widen it.

If it makes you feel better, I'm perfectly willing to admit that the more homogeneous cultural attitude towards education in the families of the kids helps and it might be the overriding factor (although I don't believe it is in the US). But don't ask me to believe in systemic racism.

There is *no* evidence that race has an effect on IQ. To suggest otherwise is good old fashioned dyed-in-the-wool racism.

[Cerebus]

It is very illustrative that India was able to do a Mars mission that costs less than an American movie about space travel.

[chuckle] [Fx: voice of Raj from the Big Bang Theory] "And you know what? It tasted better too."

[Marco]

There is *no* evidence that race has an effect on IQ. To suggest otherwise is good old fashioned dyed-in-the-wool racism.

There is the simple crude brain volume, that can be construed as evidence. Also brain surface area, but if you try hard enough you can find some statistics which you can construe as evidence to support the theory that it's caused by nurture instead of nature.

That's the nature of evidence, it only implies and it can also mislead. Unfortunately in the real world proof is impossible. So we butt heads about the strength of the evidence. To imply there is simply no evidence on my side is simply insanity. The insane don't butt heads, they chop heads. In the bleeding heart liberal's case with the metaphorical sword of the word "racist".

[Cerebus]

If you're implying that a more ethnically diverse population implies a wider IQ distribution then that sounds like racist bullshit to me.

No, it's the simple truth. No matter how small the influence of race on IQ, there being none is close to impossible. So it will widen it.

If it makes you feel better, I'm perfectly willing to admit that the more homogeneous cultural attitude towards education in the families of the kids helps and it might be the overriding factor (although I don't believe it is in the US). But don't ask me to believe in systemic racism.

There is *no* evidence that race has an effect on IQ. To suggest otherwise is good old fashioned dyed-in-the-wool racism.

There is certainly a correlation for racial groups in the US, see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WAIS-IV_FSIQ_Scores_by_Race_and_Ethnicity.png
I'm just wondering if the cause is genetical, cultural or situational (with that I mean that lower scoring groups could have had access to education).

There's a correlation for being American, Black and being shot by the police - that does not imply anything about being Black per se. No matter how you try to frame it as reasonable sounding any implication that some racial group is innately intellectually inferior or superior is false and no reputable, peer reviewed, research has ever supported the idea.

[CraigHB]

The difference is cultural, not that some race is inherently smarter than another.  Culture in the US tends to promote a level of self-entitlement which opposes intellectual achievement. Other cultures promote a more dedicated and goal oriented attitude which is why you see better performance. 

No matter the anti-intellectualism, there's still plenty of very smart Americans doing groundbreaking things in science and engineering.  When someone has a love of science or engineering cultural attitude is not going to stop them from doing what they are interested in doing.   American culture does not reward intellectual achievement the way it does other non-intellectual pursuits.  Though it would certainly be better if society rewarded it.

[Rick Law]

The anti-intellectualism in the west bothers me very much too. I think it originated in the US, and largely driven by the way their media works (especially tv, when that was the dominant medium). Everything needs to be bite-sized, easy to understand, and spectacular.

It worries me too. However, it didn't originate in the US; it is more widespread. TV isn't the dominant factor, although it certainly reflects and amplifies the attitude.

I agree with the degeneration of the "bite size" problem.

I think was Modern Technology, Social Media and Texting.    As "smart phone" usage increased, more and more are "typing" by using the small touch screen.  A short essay (say 100 words) would exceed the patience of most.   Last I check is 80 character for text message.  The MMS allows more but is limiting.   As short attention span spread, complex ideas become rare.

I have a suspicion.  I think if one is to compare attention span between areas of "good cell-phone coverage" vs "bad to no coverage", you would see a polarization of views.  Further, I think "no cell area" would have people with longer attention span and thus more capable of dealing with complex ideas.

[raptor1956]

Short attention span is a widespread problem that didn't begin yesterday but has gotten worse year-over-year.  In another forum I follow that deals with video it's real common to get folks respond with criticism if a video last more than a few minutes no matter the content or quality.  I saw a video someone posted that cut from scene to scene more than once per second and continued that way and after about 25 seconds, as I was about to get motion sickness, I had to quit watching it.

There no way this isn't wiring our brains. 


Brian

[Sal Ammoniac]

Short attention span is a widespread problem that didn't begin yesterday but has gotten worse year-over-year.

Short attention spans are not a problem--they're merely the rantings of the psychological profession attempting to

[dannyf]

"There is *no* evidence that race has an effect on IQ."

Equating absence of evidence to evidence of absence is probably not logically sound.

I tend to think that different ethnicities took different routes to evolution , and that would suggest that our biologic evolution may have adanved differently.

Unless there is evidence to the contrary, I would think that there is likely differences in human biology for different groups of people.

To me, that is science (more precisely, scientific conjecture) to recognize our differences than to mask them off for fear of being labeled a racist.

We are different. That doesn't make one more superior or inferior to another.

[tronde]

The anti-intellectualism in the west bothers me very much too. I think it originated in the US, and largely driven by the way their media works (especially tv, when that was the dominant medium). Everything needs to be bite-sized, easy to understand, and spectacular.

It worries me too. However, it didn't originate in the US; it is more widespread. TV isn't the dominant factor, although it certainly reflects and amplifies the attitude.

I agree with the degeneration of the "bite size" problem.

I think was Modern Technology, Social Media and Texting.    As "smart phone" usage increased, more and more are "typing" by using the small touch screen.  A short essay (say 100 words) would exceed the patience of most.   Last I check is 80 character for text message.  The MMS allows more but is limiting.   As short attention span spread, complex ideas become rare.

I have a suspicion.  I think if one is to compare attention span between areas of "good cell-phone coverage" vs "bad to no coverage", you would see a polarization of views.  Further, I think "no cell area" would have people with longer attention span and thus more capable of dealing with complex ideas.

This is not new. Jane M. Healy described it in "Endangered Minds: Why Children Don't Think And What We Can Do About It" first published in 1991.

https://www.amazon.com/Endangered-Minds-Children-Think-About/dp/0684856204

[zapta]

Short attention span is a widespread problem that didn't begin yesterday but has gotten worse year-over-year.  In another forum I follow that deals with video it's real common to get folks respond with criticism if a video last more than a few minutes no matter the content or quality.  I saw a video someone posted that cut from scene to scene more than once per second and continued that way and after about 25 seconds, as I was about to get motion sickness, I had to quit watching it.

There no way this isn't wiring our brains. 

Brian

tl;dr

[tggzzz]

The (very-)left-wing political environment that is coming up in the west scares me a bit really.

You are confusing your left with your right.

[dannyf]

"you're quickly labelled as a racist or nazi. "

Brcause thats exactly whst the nazis do: assasibate the chartacter of thr messenger.

" In the end, I think it is Trump making a fool out of himself which has driven most voters away from him."

Trump has many faults and is far from being the perfect candidate.

But he is not corrupt, and wants to reform DC and return the power to the people. On that alone, he needs to be empowered.

The ruling elitists don't understand trump because they don't understand the people. They are in DC strictly to line up their pockets. They cannot care less about ordinary peoples struggle. Wikileaks laid that Barr for all willing to see.

Herr is an example: Obamas mother in law is getting paid involuntarily by the taxpayers for a 160k usd per year pension until her death (then with survival benefits) for having babysitter his two kids over the last 8 years, for traveling all over the global in style on taxpayer dimes, for being served gourmet meals any time of the day, for being protected by the secrete service 24x7, ...

Ask yourself which part of that sounds like a "public servant"?