Moderation reports

[Simon]

Hello good poeple, I type this with my moderator top hat on 

I (as Dave will be as well) am receiving a lot of reports lately on posts. That is not to say that I (we) are overwelmed but many of these are along the lines of: "I didn't like what he said", or that "he's offending so and so" when no one was specifically mentioned and a range of reports that frankly I can't do anything about unless you want me to delete half the forum just because  maybe I don't like what was said either and you wouldn't agree either.

Now I know that Dave has decided that there is to be stricter control/moderation of the forum and rightly so but please don't go overboard lets try to get some perspective here, please do report any of the following:

Spam
posts that are vulgar or otherwise inappropriate
anything you deem to be illegal or for ill intent (but don't go jumping over the mere mention of something like a possible harmless prank)
Direct attacks on members (naming people)
attempts to otherwise upset the relatively educated and polite environment we all enjoy and turn threads into senseless arguments by diverting the subject elsewhre.

If you don't like someone or how they phrase things or your part of the politically correct brigade that must not see anyone brought to account or anything bad said particularly when it may well be true please save it, because you will probably be the next person someone else reports for the same reasons or you may be whittling if I have to apply you own logic to you one day.

I don't want this to be seen as a provoking post but I don't want people to feel that we are not taking note of reports, I'm a moderator, not a policeman.

Moderator hat off

Thank you all for understanding !

[Simon]

thank you for your comments, you make good points. Obviously case by case judgement will be applied. I am just getting tired with people pointing fingers at each other just because they disagree. there is disagreeing and there is being offensive, please don't mix them. This is not a school playground.

[Simon]

It is not a problem at the moment but I am seeing a tendency in reoports that are purely to say they don't like something. I am afraid this is a place of free speech, save for the conditions i put above I can't do a lot.

That does not mean to say that I need to see a history of bad posts before banning a person, if someone posts something that bad they will just get banned regardless of history. Unfortunately we cannot stay on top of every thread as there are too many.

[Simon]

when you report 1 post, in order to be fair and understand the situation we have to read the whole thread ! so if I get loads of silly reports that means i have no time to deal with them as some threads are so long. so I'll either have to ignore it or make a poor judgement on dealing with it because i have so many to get through.

Obviously if the report is a valid one please make it, as i said we are not your dinner ladies in the school playground.

[GeoffS]

As (one of) the other moderators I agree with what Simon has said.
It's easy to delete spam and spammers but no so easy to make the decision about banning regular users based on what they are posting. What's offensive to one may not be offensive to another (the same goes for humour  )

I must admit that I tend to leave the hard decision making to Dave but based on his recent post about the sheer number of posts/threads, this may need to change.

In banning a user, which should be a last option, there are various levels of banishment. Perhaps being banned from posting for a period of time, but still being able to read the forums, would give some people time to reconsider their approach.

[Simon]

There is indeed an option for a temporary ban which is why I'd not hesitate to ban someone temporarily for an offensive post regardless of history.

I probably was not clear enough in my original post but i get the impression that we might be heading for a "reporting war". Because it is now clear that trouble makers will be dealt with, I predict a tendency for people to start reporting each other as a way of getting at each other instead of bad posts that they will get banned for.

When this forum started it was more civil as there were fewer of us and there was unofficial moderation. I politely put a certain person no longer with us in his place before i was a mod, and it all worked well. now that we are no longer small and neighborly like a village but big and selfish like a town things get more complicated.

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--I think Admin does a fine job of moderating this forum, and using as light a hand as possible. But lets try to help them out. If you must report a post or poster be very, very specific about what your complaint is, and provide a direct quote in your notification.

--I read nearly everything on the forum, and in my opinion there are only a very few hinky posters, and even they, do not offend very often, so there should not be a lot of reporting of offensive posts. Defend yourselves, just be civil about it.


"I have had my results for a long time: but I do not yet now how I am to arrive at them."
Carl Friedrich Gauss 1777 1855
 
Best Regards
Clear Ether

[EEVblog]

Yes, I have to agree with Simon too.
Whilst the volume of reports hasn't been large, I see them and with most I think "why bother complaining?, storm in a tea-cup" so I simply close the report, and it seems that Simon and Geoff think the same way too.
Whilst I can certainly understand that some people may have got their heckles up by something someone said (we all have our own expected and tolerable levels of behaviour and language), it's simply not possible to reliably and consistently moderate this on a forum.
If we did start trying to moderate people's "character", or tone of voice, or personality, then there won't be much of a forum left. The forum would eventually be dumbed down to a Queens English Q&A without much personal enthusiasm or character that I think is what makes a community forum compelling to read and contribute too.

I want people to lead by example on this forum, and I think it's working quite well.
With over 87,000 posts, we've only had to ban a couple of genuine contributors, and moderate/delete maybe a few dozen posts.
The main rule is no personal attacks, and this is the one rule I've become stricter over, as I think that's where all the problems start and degenerate into chaos. So if it's a genuine direct personal attack, then please report it and one the moderators will check it out and take action as they deem appropriate.

But otherwise, try and let things slide, and get on with talking electronics. If you don't like the tone of a thread or the way it's going, you have the power to change it yourself and show how it should be done...

Dave.

[saturation]

As a 10+ year mod on another board, I filter only personal attacks post were complaints are made, and then put that account in moderation mode for 1 week, allowing the flame to cool down.  It allows that account to view the board, but not post unless you approve it.  If the same account did that 3x I may ban them or put them in permanent moderation or view only.  Very little work on your part.

FWIW, some persons banned from eevblog have a history of doing the same for at least 5+ years in other boards; so the need for such action is fairly rare.  No mention of names, but you can find the same person from this 2007 list from anantech just 'find' you know who:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=61029

[Simon]

sounds like a sensible approach. Yes I found we know who in that list - no surprise there, we were very patient over here and i remonstrated with said user more than once and put him in his place before we had moderation on here. At that time we were a smaller forum and there was more respect for each other and a general membership (or posters to the thread in question) consensus on a topic going bad was enough to bring it back in line.

[djsb]

I have on occasion deleted a couple of my own topics because there has been no response at all. Pity we can't delete our own posts if we feel that we have said something we regret. It would mean less work for moderators as well. Thats just me though maybe not everyone is as good at self censorship.

David.

[Simon]

I have on occasion deleted a couple of my own topics because there has been no response at all. Pity we can't delete our own posts if we feel that we have said something we regret. It would mean less work for moderators as well. Thats just me though maybe not everyone is as good at self censorship.

David.

you can delete your own posts, or at least edit them and remove the text, this is often better as it helps the topic make sense as posts just disapearing from the middle cause confusion.

[vk6zgo]

As I said,on another occasion,it is frighteningly easy to make mortal enemies on this (or any) forum.
People have a lot of self-esteem bound up with their opinions,so maybe if I'm getting them really upset,I should back off.
The trouble is,it is quite enjoyable to take part in a vigorous debate,so sometimes the warning signs are not heeded.

What we have to be careful of is the "You're all fools!" attitude,which some people adopt,where they refuse to consider anyone else's comments .
Many people on this forum possess quite formidable intellects,but that does not make them infallible.
Sometimes,us "lesser beings" know stuff they don't,because we have had to learn it for our jobs,or just through life experience.

[Simon]

and we/i sometime refer to china/chinese, thats racist! but thats fact we all know that (cloning, bad quality manufacturing etc), but we also know not all chinese like that, i know some good chinese members here (from their tone and signature) and i have many good chinese friends here local, but be careful when you talk in a forum, it can make the next world war cheers.

I'm afraid that most chinese mass manufactured are junk, and that is just a fact, nothing offensive. As a quality inspector I have to deal with this on a daily basis.

Yes people are opinionated and I'm one of them, I try to think before posting but we are not all perfect. providing people are not offensive to members there is nothing wrong with them being wrong if they genuinely beleive it. No doubt someone else will correct them, this is the great thing about forums, your getting a wide base of opinions not one persons version of the facts

[vk6zgo]

It is a trap,though,as sometimes you make comment based on a well known fact about Electronics,& are amazed that not only do others not know it,but will challenge it as though it is just a matter of '"opinion".

Do you try to set them right,or just forget it & not follow it up?

Or someone quite knowledgeable,will phrase something strangely,& when you try to clear it up for an OP who may be a beginner,they get upset,& reply in an aggressive manner.
OK,we all probably do this sometimes,but a few people make a habit of it.
Then there are the people who are just "grumpy",& are quite entertaining with it!

The question remains:-
When do you back away & leave them to it?

[gregariz]

With regard to Chinese stuff being junk - alot of it is, but I find for most common electronics it seems to do the job as long as you are not rough with it.

With regard to the idea of 'facts'. I try simply to not come into the forum any longer to comment on things like multimeters and oscilloscopes. The trend I found was that people were getting all bent up over specifications. And that left me scratching my head over who needed to measure most of them. Over the last 20 years I have found I can probably do the vast majority of tasks using the commonly spec'ed base instruments. People are/were giving advice to beginners and hobbyists to buy higher end test gear. So I find their reality or 'facts' are not mine so its simply not a conversation worth having.

[Simon]

People are/were giving advice to beginners and hobbyists to buy higher end test gear. So I find their reality or 'facts' are not mine so its simply not a conversation worth having.

so that is your politically correct mind saying. different people with different need. you should visit metrologycal and/or calibration and measurement dept sometime and how they will insist on... well, not high end gear, but... super super super high end gear. and some people live by it, pay for it, and get more money from it. just to let you know, i have the same reality as yours (normal gears work for me) but the other rationale is, if you have better gear, you will have better result (usually) thats why people try to give better advice, i also learnt this from experience with my other tools, esp tools like hammer, jigsaw etc not ee related.

he makes a valid point, there are some people who think they are showing off by suggesting to someone clearly asking advice on basic gear to go get the latest top end bit of kit. This is partly taking the micky because they don't like begginers because they think they are part of the elite and that is all they want to meet here and partly just not being in the real world. The hope is that other more "normal" members offer more sensible suggestions.

[Simon]

It is a trap,though,as sometimes you make comment based on a well known fact about Electronics,& are amazed that not only do others not know it,but will challenge it as though it is just a matter of '"opinion".

Do you try to set them right,or just forget it & not follow it up?

Or someone quite knowledgeable,will phrase something strangely,& when you try to clear it up for an OP who may be a beginner,they get upset,& reply in an aggressive manner.
OK,we all probably do this sometimes,but a few people make a habit of it.
Then there are the people who are just "grumpy",& are quite entertaining with it!

The question remains:-
When do you back away & leave them to it?

usually politely putting people right works or a general consensus of replies will clear the matter up. Usually stating things politely and not arrogantly will keep things at the right level. The problem is when people who know what they are talking about present facts arrogantly because this is what someone who does not know what they are talking about would do to give the impression they are right, again hopefully people can be reasonable and yes we have a few arrogant members and they can be entertaining if you sit back and let them get on with it without taking it to heart.

[BBQdChips]

but the other rationale is, if you have better gear, you will have better result (usually) thats why people try to give better advice, i also learnt this from experience with my other tools, esp tools like hammer, jigsaw etc not ee related.

Since when is a hammer not EE Kit?

[r90s]

but the other rationale is, if you have better gear, you will have better result (usually) thats why people try to give better advice, i also learnt this from experience with my other tools, esp tools like hammer, jigsaw etc not ee related.

Since when is a hammer not EE Kit?

Yep,  You gotta whack those electrons to keep them in line........

[T4P]

A special red toolbox (In the words of free_electron) labelled "Widlarization toolkit"  That's essential 

[SeanB]

It also must include a 14lb sledge hammer as well, to do it properly. A steam anvil works for anything that fits in the jaws, but is a little non portable.

[rpress]

I've been lurking around here for a while, checking things out, deciding if I should get involved.  I see a few repeat offenders who are just plain rude and it makes me wonder.  You all know who I'm talking about.  I guess it's the same everywhere. 

These rude people often have valuable opinions, however my feeling is that the atmosphere they create is far more negative than the positive they might create.  It seems to me it would be easy enough to put these people on moderation, and any rude postings could just be deleted.  This would cause them to change their ways or just go away, and the burden would not be so great because it's likely less than a half dozen that are like this.

Anyway just wanted to clear the air, I think I'll go back to lurking for a bit longer.

[Simon]

yes there are a few "difficult" people and you are welcome to highlight any problem posts you see. A number of posts have been removed in the past. The object of this thread was to explain that anything other than abuse cannot be removed as otherwise we'd end up deleting alot of the forum and I created this thread because I was getting a lot of petty reports after we cracked down on abusive posts because when people realized we were taking stronger views they started reporting anything and everything just because they did't like it personally.

The troublesome people have not posted too many directly abusive posts and they will dealt with swiftly if reported, we don't have the time to moderate people on a post by post basis.

I've seen forums go wrong before when on a "certain other forum" that I left because it was the moderators that were running their own little regimes and are the villains. On here that will not happen, I am no expert and won't be using my moderator status to shove my view on how electronics works I was made a moderator because I took a fair view and tried to see both sides not for any technical expertise, and I'm sure the same goes for other moderators.

[GeoffS]

SPAM of course is the other reason to remove a post. We get surprisingly little of this considering.
I agree with simon, there are a lot of annoying people posting here butas long as they are within the rules Dave sets, they're post are acceptable.