'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[magic]

I was waking along the street a few weeks ago and saw a group of black people walking towards me. I looked at them, then across the street and crossed the road, to avoid them. It would be perfectly understandable if they thought I was being raciest, especially as I'm white and was half-expecting a negative comment. In reality I was practising social distancing. I looked them to see if there was enough room to pass on the pavement, but it was too tight, then I looked at the road to check it was safe to cross and it was so I did. I would have done the same, had they been white, but admit I make more effort to socially distance from people of colour, because they're statistically more at risk at developing complications from COVID-19 and there's the small possibility I'm an a/presymptomatic carrier.

Hey man, I wanted to have mercy and give you a pass on that, but come on, not after this.

superficial differences such as skin colour don't matter

This is a textbook example of unconscious bias. Do you know why the police are more likely to stop and search (or kill in attempted self defense) certain ethnicities over others? Not because they are racist dickheads who read 4chan in their spare time, but precisely because some statistician somewhere had said that those races are more likely to commit crime. Or, dunno, ever heard of the concept of "white flight"? Pretty much what you have done, in different circumstances.

Truly liberal countries like Sweden at least made a good call and banned collection of any racial statistics whatsoever. If race doesn't exist than the risk of carrying corona can't be broken down by race. I can appreciate the honesty and integrity in that.

But this is exactly it. America is racist because they have created a system where common sense is racist and where racism is common sense. And you understand it, but you refuse to acknowledge it because you don't want to be called racist. So much for the solidarity and "intermixing" that your stated political program demands from others. Remember that you don't have a monopoly on selfishness.

edit
Sorry, I misremembered your post and quoted it without re-reading the entirety of it
Yes, you get a pass. But even if you aren't selfish, others are. The whole idea that racists care about nothing more than superficial factors like skin color is a strawman. Another part of "showing it to those racists" by ridiculing them, meh.

[bd139]

Yes that. You’re more likely to be arrested here if you’re black. Same as you’re more likely to be arrested if you are male.

I’m not in the street demanding that we arrest more women or stop arresting men.  I’m busy not committing crimes.

Statistics are important as it allows people to look at causality. And causality is roughly defined as a combination of poverty, poor education and some defective cultures in the U.K. All applies to all races as well for reference. A lot of people are given opportunities galore but do not take them and choose self destruction. What can we do? Carry on arresting them when they kick in a 75 year old in bulwell (check bbc news)

But this is getting too political now I suspect.

[G7PSK]

I was waking along the street a few weeks ago and saw a group of black people walking towards me. I looked at them, then across the street and crossed the road, to avoid them. It would be perfectly understandable if they thought I was being raciest, especially as I'm white and was half-expecting a negative comment. In reality I was practising social distancing. I looked them to see if there was enough room to pass on the pavement, but it was too tight, then I looked at the road to check it was safe to cross and it was so I did. I would have done the same, had they been white, but admit I make more effort to socially distance from people of colour, because they're statistically more at risk at developing complications from COVID-19 and there's the small possibility I'm an a/presymptomatic carrier.

Hey man, I wanted to have mercy and give you a pass on that, but come on, not after this.

superficial differences such as skin colour don't matter

This is a textbook example of unconscious bias. Do you know why the police are more likely to stop and search (or kill in attempted self defense) certain ethnicities over others? Not because they are racist dickheads who read 4chan in their spare time, but precisely because some statistician somewhere had said that those races are more likely to commit crime. Or, dunno, ever heard of the concept of "white flight"? Pretty much what you have done, in different circumstances.

Truly liberal countries like Sweden at least made a good call and banned collection of any racial statistics whatsoever. If race doesn't exist than the risk of carrying corona can't be broken down by race. I can appreciate the honesty and integrity in that.

But this is exactly it. America is racist because they have created a system where common sense is racist and where racism is common sense. And you understand it, but you refuse to acknowledge it because you don't want to be called racist. So much for the solidarity and "intermixing" that your stated political program demands from others. Remember that you don't have a monopoly on selfishness.

There are areas in the UK where a single whit man would not dare to tread, parts of Luton come to mind alongside some estates in London,Manchester and Birmingham as well as many more towns. Because if they did so they would be attacked and beaten or the very least expelled from what is considered an all black or muslim area. No one dares to speak about this in the media anymore or in the Government but the police only go there in groups.

[bd139]

Correct. This is the cultural issue I mention above.

This is not racist either. You’ll find people of the same race equally disgusted about the situation. It’s cultural isolation. But if you criticise it you are branded a racist. That stifles debate and improvement and it escalated into places where people just don’t go.

[Siwastaja]

or at least consider it not a bad idea because it placates people.

It's a good point. They think this way, but they are wrong.

I'm sure most of the people seemingly agreeing with the violent groups or terrorists, as we are currently seeing, are doing this as they think showing "understanding" or even better, "agreement", leads to the radical groups becoming less radical; or if anything, at least they don't attack us if we show we are on their side. This is an unsurprising mechanism of self-preservation, and caused by fear, even if the people do not consciously see it. It's not the same, but somewhat similar to Stockholm syndrome.

The only problem is, this does not work. It won't work because "they" obviously see through it.

A recent example to show the point. In Finland, we have obviously seen the violent black supremacy borderline terrorist movement take action, as well, on a very small scale (and mostly ran by white people, actually the ones who just jump for every bandwagon that allows them to riot; this is nothing new), though. Here, the police proactively took an official stance that they support this violent movement; participated the demonstrations with signs showing the symbols of said violent movement, on work-time, wearing police uniforms. (As as side note, this is obviously against law; police is not allowed to take sides on demonstrations, even peaceful ones; even less are they allowed to promote violent movements. This incident resulted absolutely zero media discussion here, unsurprisingly, especially given the new media control implemented during the COVID.)

Now, I think the reason the police decided to officially promote such anti-police violent movement, is to try to make them less violent against police; to show "we are on the same side": "do not attack us!" This is understandable and if it was an idea of the individual officers (we don't know yet), I don't blame them.

The problem is, the violent movement also understands this. This was really well demonstrated, just a week after, as we saw a riot where the police, handling a routine case, were completely surrounded and attacked by a large mob of said violent anti-police group, and shot at using fireworks. As a result, some police officers were injured from the fireworks. Now, there is nothing surprising here, because the same is happening everywhere in the "West", but the comment a citizen journalist got from those (white) who fired the shots, right after the incident, was extremely revealing: "We must fight against crooked cops. Black lives matter."

And I agree with them. Police saying that they support said violent anti-police movement, and waving their flags and symbols, is just crooked. The police is obviously just playing games. Hence, taking sides with terrorists does not protect the police; likely, the opposite happens: they will be only taken advantage of, then betrayed. "Kill the cops" won't go anywhere.

Needless to say, here the police is notorious for very rarely using deadly force.

[tom66]

It seems to me the far right and the far left share the same trait of having their "eyes wide shut".  People somewhere in the middle, trying to make things work, are rarely the problem.

The problem with "enlightened centrism" is it fails to get anything worthwhile done.
You need a bit of a  radical twinge to make the changes that are necessary to society.

[Simon]

Adafruit are replacing Master/Slave and other terms in all their documentation:
https://www.adafruit.com/blacklivesmatter

(Attachment Link)

Another jumpjack that can't break away

And why does Adafruit need a certificate valid until end of June 2025 that is "woman owned"? 
https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/06/17/adafruit-is-a-certified-minority-and-woman-owned-business-enterprise-m-wbe/
Is her mirror broken? What happens July 1st  2025?
Wasn't it "woman owned last year too ?
So many questions....

Well I guess I will never shop with adafruit and will avoid their products from other distributors. A business that has to shout about it's female ownership is just being sexist.

[Simon]

It seems to me the far right and the far left share the same trait of having their "eyes wide shut".  People somewhere in the middle, trying to make things work, are rarely the problem.

The problem with "enlightened centrism" is it fails to get anything worthwhile done.
You need a bit of a  radical twinge to make the changes that are necessary to society.

Not really, you just need a bent to do something, the right and left spend all of their time on special interest issues that are of special interest to their cult followers. They make decisions to please the sort of people that elected them so that they get even more votes next time. Simply sitting in the middle doing what is right and what needs to be done makes sense logically but does not pander to one sect or the other of voters so reelection is not guaranteed.

I would abolish political parties, make everyone stand as independent, sure they will have their bents and they may form unofficial groupings but they should not be allowed to conspire and joint fund campaigns.

[wilfred]

I read this today. It might have relevance to some interested in this thread. For those willing to engage in some self discovery there is a link in there to some tests you can do to reveal your own implicit biases. You will find you're not special after all. And I don't mean "special".

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/making-people-aware-of-their-implicit-biases-doesnt-usually-change-minds-but-heres-what-does-work

[bd139]

Adafruit are replacing Master/Slave and other terms in all their documentation:
https://www.adafruit.com/blacklivesmatter

(Attachment Link)

Another jumpjack that can't break away

And why does Adafruit need a certificate valid until end of June 2025 that is "woman owned"? 
https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/06/17/adafruit-is-a-certified-minority-and-woman-owned-business-enterprise-m-wbe/
Is her mirror broken? What happens July 1st  2025?
Wasn't it "woman owned last year too ?
So many questions....

Well I guess I will never shop with adafruit and will avoid their products from other distributors. A business that has to shout about it's female ownership is just being sexist.

Totally agree with this.  I’ve said this for years. Equality I am a strong proponent of. I have fought for people’s promotion against gender inequality before. But anything past equality is inequality and that should be kicked the fuck back where it belongs.

Not only that most of the products are overpriced, crap or useless marketoid shit which is quite frankly embarrassing and cringeworthy to look at which is really built on a mountain of cheap foreign labour but that’s another thread. 

On the original point, you need to be careful of a lot of people demanding equality because they are not. They are demanding special treatment because of one of their inconsequential attributes such as race, gender or sexual orientation. And that’s just as fucked up as the 1800’s were. I don’t have an audience for those people. Nor the idiotic ideology cults which are supersets of inequality pushers under the guise of equality (like the radical feminist weirdos)

[Simon]

Well this is my point. Positive discrimination is still discrimination. I rarely fill in the race box on a form unless it's medical. If you want equality or to make sure you treat people equal then what better than not knowing their race!

[G7PSK]

The whole race and equality thing is fueled by hypocrisy, stupidity and lack of education as is BLM and the anti slavery thing, the people protesting all of this are using equipment made using modern slavery containing minerals mind using child slaves and are being egged on by the likes of Louis Hamilton.

[Simon]

No we will just ignore that history.

[SparkyFX]

Adafruit are replacing Master/Slave and other terms in all their documentation:
https://www.adafruit.com/blacklivesmatter

Their documentation derives from/uses terminology from datasheets that contain these very words and are quite old, which might introduce a small potential for error/misunderstanding. I guess rewriting old datasheets - or literature in general - will not be feasible (practically, economically or just because of copyrights) and those are the ones you'd have to read to understand the function. So people learning about the subject will face it anyway. I guess back in the day there were better ways to express such a system, otoh the parts do not possess conscience, it can only be offending to the person reading it and unilaterally changing context.

Changing online documentation and using different terminology in newly created documentation shouldn't be a big problem - all in all it is the readers task to understand the concept and then keep working on.

It probably is important to have such a discussion, but obnoxious people usually come up with ways to make harmless language sound confrontational anyway. The thing is, a euphemism treadmill in general does not work as it should (solve the problem), otherwise it would not be a treadmill. Not when it is the underlying intention which is the problem as well as asserting an intention to authors.

The term "idiot" is a good example, i bet its in the ppm range an actual idiot (context: medical definition of IQ < 70, but even they changed it to mental retardation) is called an idiot, which means by a blurry, usage based definition of language a language-defining entity either decides it is wrong usage (is idiotic) or a redefinition is needed. According to wikipedia the word originated from "a private citizen" - so by that most of us are idiots, you just need to go back in time long enough. It can only be the intention that counts.

[Simon]

i have come across SPI stuff that uses DI and DO and it confused the hell out of me. I don't think it was written like that because of sensitivities but poor English and understanding of SPI along with the fact that the screen never returns data to the master.

[madires]

Adafruit are replacing Master/Slave and other terms in all their documentation:

(Attachment Link)

SPI RAM isn't a sensor. Neither is an SPI I/O expander. Classic disimprovement!

[SparkyFX]

have even thought about running as an independent myself so I can vote for myself 

As "Crazy Aussie Bloke"?

Now, I think the reason the police decided to officially promote such anti-police violent movement, is to try to make them less violent against police; to show "we are on the same side": "do not attack us!" This is understandable and if it was an idea of the individual officers (we don't know yet), I don't blame them.

Lots of speculation, as well as the assumption that the police is one entity - it is a job after all.

Racism is as good as congratulating someone to the successful decision of being born to parents of a certain race - pointless. If you leave that away, it consists of divisive language alone and that never needed a reason and at its core it always runs down to who has power or who abuses power. Slavery is not an exclusively race specific issue, it existed in the form of serfdom in the Middle Ages in Europe as well.

[EEVblog]

have even thought about running as an independent myself so I can vote for myself 

I'd hate for someone like me getting real political power; they'd be a straight up dick-tator. 

When there was talk about us becoming a republic, one of the names put forward for president was Dick Smith. He famously said he'd only do it if he could be a dictator, as it's the only way to get things done!

[madires]

Well I guess I will never shop with adafruit and will avoid their products from other distributors. A business that has to shout about it's female ownership is just being sexist.

Nothing wrong with being proud of something. Bus yes, sexism can go in all directions.

[magic]

I'm not into that "maker" subculture so I always judged Adafruit by the first three letters of their name alone and didn't even care to know anything more.
I'm starting to feel like I have some prophetic powers

Actually, come to think of it, on every depiction I've seen black and brown are on top, and white is on the bottom. So I guess that's 

White is higher value

Now, I think the reason the police decided to officially promote such anti-police violent movement, is to try to make them less violent against police; to show "we are on the same side": "do not attack us!" This is understandable and if it was an idea of the individual officers (we don't know yet), I don't blame them.

You haven't been watching TV, they promote a mostly peaceful anti-racism demonstration.
Modern politics is all "frame control" - it doesn't matter what happens, only how it is being talked about.
Police presence gives them an appearance of legitimacy.

[tom66]

The lack of master and slave on UART has caused numerous problems for me.  It's never clear whether TX on a schematic is the *transmit out*,  or *transmit signal in*.  I know most engineers use the former, but it's not consistent.

Edit: grammar/syntax

[SilverSolder]

It seems to me the far right and the far left share the same trait of having their "eyes wide shut".  People somewhere in the middle, trying to make things work, are rarely the problem.

The problem with "enlightened centrism" is it fails to get anything worthwhile done.
You need a bit of a  radical twinge to make the changes that are necessary to society.

The problem is that "radical twinges" often makes bad changes...  because they tend not to have broad based support.

Perhaps the best systems just provide a framework to let people do their own thing...

[Siwastaja]

The lack of master and slave on UART has caused numerous problems for me.  It's never clear whether TX on a schematic is the *transmit out*,  or *transmit signal in*.  I know most engineers use the former, but it's not consistent.

TX is always output, RX is always input. Using name "TX" as "transmit signal in" sounds like an error, unless it's just a signal between the transmitting device and the physical interface driver chip.

With two communicating devices, another's TX is connected to another's RX, so netnames for the parties involved, as well as labels on the connectors are easy: TX for the output, RX for the input. Low-level communication, what comes to "uart" without flow control as is most usual today, is bidirectional and completely equal, there is no master or slave.

In many cases though, one party clearly initiates things while another responds, but this is on a higher (application) level than the UART communication, so it doesn't matter in schematics or even UART peripheral configuration.

The only thing that requires more consideration, is how to name the signals in the cable between the parties. Because other end is TX, and other is RX, this can't be called either RX or TX. If the cable is a "dumb" crossover cable, naming does not matter at all, but for application specific harnesses - including the case this "cable" is just a PCB trace between two devices on the same PCB and needs a netname - you need to come up with something like "cpu_to_modem" and "modem_to_cpu", or "master_to_slave", if you think that describes the higher-level use the best.

Then, it's obvious that cpu tx is an output driving net cpu_to_modem, and modem rx is an input pin reading that net.

[SilverSolder]

The lack of master and slave on UART has caused numerous problems for me.  It's never clear whether TX on a schematic is the *transmit out*,  or *transmit signal in*.  I know most engineers use the former, but it's not consistent.

TX is always output, RX is always input. Using name "TX" as "transmit signal in" sounds like an error, unless it's just a signal between the transmitting device and the physical interface driver chip.
[...]

You know that, and I know that, but it seems many developers/designers in the Far East have not been let in on the secret, judging by the number of USB to Serial converter boards I have seen that confuses the two!

[Simon]

Yes confusion is a problem, and yes once half the language has been banned everything will just be called "thing", then we will all know exactly what we are talking about.