More eBay fraud

[MikeK]

I'm calling this fraud.  It's definitely a deceptive practice.  Items listed as shipping from a US state, but are actually coming from China and then re-shipped.  This isn't the same as vendors who buy stock from China and then resell it from the US.  This is fraud in my book, because the item doesn't actually exist in the US.  This is really annoying, because what should only be a couple days after purchase takes weeks or never arrives.  *And*  they're getting the higher price for a US-shipped item.  That is, I could pay far less money by ordering from sellers who say it ships from China.  I'm assuming others in the US have experienced this?

[vk6zgo]

I'm calling this fraud.  It's definitely a deceptive practice.  Items listed as shipping from a US state, but are actually coming from China and then re-shipped.  This isn't the same as vendors who buy stock from China and then resell it from the US.  This is fraud in my book, because the item doesn't actually exist in the US.  This is really annoying, because what should only be a couple days after purchase takes weeks or never arrives.  *And*  they're getting the higher price for a US-shipped item.  That is, I could pay far less money by ordering from sellers who say it ships from China.  I'm assuming others in the US have experienced this?

The same thing happens in Australia.
They say they "have them in stock", but the delivery time is exactly the same as the next ad down which admits the thing is in China.
The only advantage they have is there is someone to complain to in this country, rather than someone unknown in the PRC.

[jmelson]

Yup, I've been caught by this one, too.  Very clever and deceptive.
Jon

[MikeK]

What compounds it is that eBay doesn't immediately issue a refund when the item doesn't arrive by the expected delivery date.  No, they give the seller almost a week to respond...and *then* eBay will get involved.  Which means an even longer delivery window, so no real punishment for failing to meet the delivery expectation.

[pcprogrammer]

This is called dropshipping on Aliexpress.

Quite a while back there was something in the Dutch TV news about this. Local website shops selling the exact same stuff as you can get on Aliexpress for tripple the price or even more, and then still have to wait for it to arrive from China.

The middle men being almost useless in the whole process and earning but loads of money of naive suckers that don't find Aliexpress them selves or are scared to buy from China directly.

[HwAoRrDk]

I find it usually pretty easy to spot drop-shipping listings like this. They'll have some overly-generic ships-from location like "London", and an upper bound on the expected shipping time of something like 2 or 3 weeks, even if the lower bound is only 3 days.

[Rick Law]

I'm calling this fraud.  It's definitely a deceptive practice.  Items listed as shipping from a US state, but are actually coming from China and then re-shipped.  This isn't the same as vendors who buy stock from China and then resell it from the US.  This is fraud in my book, because the item doesn't actually exist in the US.  This is really annoying, because what should only be a couple days after purchase takes weeks or never arrives.  *And*  they're getting the higher price for a US-shipped item.  That is, I could pay far less money by ordering from sellers who say it ships from China.  I'm assuming others in the US have experienced this?

I'm not sure calling it a fraud is fair unless their "ship from the USA" item cost vs "ship from China" item cost delta is much bigger than the dual-shipping cost this seller would be incurring -- shipping from the USA to USA is not cheap.  I've received item like that a few times.  In my case, they were within a day of promised delivery.  One time it even arrived a day early which surprised me as they were cross ocean then cross USA from west coast to east coast.

For me, real question is: "Did they meet the delivery date commitment?"  If the item arrived on time (and undamaged), how and where it was shipped really doesn't matter.

This is called dropshipping on Aliexpress.
...

In the USA, drop-shipping means the seller takes the order and pass fulfillment to the wholesaler or manufacturer to ship directly to you.  If they called it that, they would be wrong for the USA market.

Reference:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drop-ship

[voltsandjolts]

Yeh, this is very common on eBay. Tough competition pushing sellers to be more cheeky perhaps.
e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175195795988
Claims to ship from London but look at the business address (bottom of the listing page) and its China.

Surely eBay could easily weed these out, they are so obvious...but eBay cares about shareholders not customers

[magic]

They care about seller fees.

Fraudulent sales increase the total volume of sales.
As long as buyers aren't pissed off enough to return the item or abandon the platform, metrics go up and all is good.

[jpanhalt]

I don't see it as fulfilling the specifications of "fraud."

fraud. n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right.

How were you harmed?  You agreed to the delivery date in the listing, and if you got it by that that date (within reason), you have no conceivable damages.  What are the conditions for return?  If you meet those, then return it  if you want and reorder the same item from an American stocker.

Of course, if it was a week late, then you can probably return it.

[HwAoRrDk]

Claims to ship from London but look at the business address (bottom of the listing page) and its China.

That's not necessarily a sign. I've ordered from eBay sellers that had business addresses in HK or China, but the item was despatched from the UK.

[MikeK]

I don't see it as fulfilling the specifications of "fraud."

fraud. n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right.

How were you harmed?  You agreed to the delivery date in the listing, and if you got it by that that date (within reason), you have no conceivable damages.  What are the conditions for return?  If you meet those, then return it  if you want and reorder the same item from an American stocker.

Of course, if it was a week late, then you can probably return it.

I didn't get it by the delivery date.  This is my complaint.  It is listed as shipping from a US state, in this case NY, and I live in PA.  Would be hard pressed to take more than 2 days to go from NY to PA.  I purchased, as I'm sure others have, with the understanding that the item IS ACTUALLY IN STOCK ONE STATE OVER and that the higher price offsets the ability to get it sooner...i.e. not waiting from China.  That's the deception...That it isn't actually in stock.  I placed the order and THEN it got shipped from China.  Really no point in listing the location as NY if it's coming from China, other than to deceive.  The total price is 3X higher than the same item shipping directly from China.  Had I known it was shipping from China I would simply have paid the LOWER price.  I have no desire to pay more money for the SAME delivery time.  THAT'S the deception.  And, yes, it IS fraud...The item is NOT in stock at the location listed.

[thm_w]

Yeh, this is very common on eBay. Tough competition pushing sellers to be more cheeky perhaps.
e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175195795988
Claims to ship from London but look at the business address (bottom of the listing page) and its China.

Surely eBay could easily weed these out, they are so obvious...but eBay cares about shareholders not customers

They say in the description: "It takes about 1-5 working days to UK; about 2-8 working days to other countries. Transit time may be a little delayed because of the bad weather and customs inspection. If you do not receive your item within 15 working days since payment finished, please contact us immediately for further assistance."

And the reviews are mostly good and some mention fast shipping times. Might actually be in UK.

[Tomorokoshi]

There is so much fraud with counterfeit products, re-directed listings, and duplicate bogus listings that Ebay already doesn't care about for this to get much attention.

[jpanhalt]

In the US, shipping times from international sellers can vary a lot.  Common carriers, such as DHL and FedEX, clear a whole container at a time.  Individual shipments (e.g., by USPS or Parcel Force in the UK) may take a lot longer.  I wouldn't make a fuss about a few days.  A few weeks or never does make a difference.  Heck, I ordered an item from an American seller from an American business (HON) for a product made in the USA.  It was supposed to be delivered "next business day,"  which was last Thursday.  Delayed delivery dates of Friday, Monday, and Tuesday were promised and missed.  The newest delivery is now Wednesday.  Aggravating? Yes.  Will I take any other actions?  No, not unless the delivery of an undamaged product is delayed a lot more.

[Halcyon]

There seems to be two issues here. The first is that the seller seems to be lying about the origin of the product, probably to get around buyers who filter out results from China, or to make their product appear more reputable and of higher quality. It's fairly common practice, but it's against ebay's policy.

With respect to shipping, always take ETAs with a grain of salt, especially during holiday periods. I consider a "reasonable" shipping time to be at least double what they claim. If it's being shipped by sea, expect to wait months. At the end of the day, aside from the method of shipping and class of service, the seller has no control over delays once the product leaves their hands. It would be unreasonable to expect compensation if the delay was due to the carrier. Very few shipping services come with a guarantee of delivery within a certain time frame (and you almost always pay a premium for it). If it's delayed, you can potentially make a claim against the carrier for a refund to the cost of shipping only.

[MikeK]

It would be unreasonable to expect compensation if the delay was due to the carrier.

If the item I'm talking about was actually in stock at the location in the eBay listing then the carrier would be USPS, and it would already be here.  And I'm not interested in hearing about people who have had things lost by USPS.  The tracking info shows that USPS is STILL waiting for the item...i.e. it's still on the boat from China.

[jpanhalt]

eBay policy (https://export.ebay.com/en/customer-service/transactions/order-cancellation-policy/ ):

A seller won't be able to cancel an order if:
The buyer has reported that the item hasn't arrived
The buyer has opened a return request

If the item is marked as "shipped," which I presume is the case, and has not been received within the published window, then open a return request and get it from another vendor.  NB: Once a seller marks an item as shipped, you cannot cancel the order per se.

[SmallCog]

I've seen a similar thing here in Australia.

Generally, the way it works is that the item will have a generic location (eg Sydney) and very quickly after I place the order I'll get an Australia Post tracking number and a notification from Australia Post to say the shipment has been created (or whatever the exact wording Australia Post use is)

Then about 2 weeks later I'll get my item, with the tracking only showing the item moving for the last few days of the 2 weeks.

I believe what's happening is that the seller is generating a shipment immediatly via Australia Posts online services to give the illusion that the goods are local and shift blame for the wait onto Australia Post. What's actually happening is that my order is coming over from China consolidated in a box with a stack of other orders via some reasonably fast (and split across lots of items) economical shipping method. When that order arrives they whack the label they generated a week or so ago onto my envelope and it arrives a few days later.

These items tend to arrive far quicker than an item bought direct from China, but there's always a big delay between getting the tracking number and the item starting to move through the postage network. They also arrive in the ubiquitous thin grey plastic bag that shipments direct from China arrive in.

I can usually spot these listings by having a slightly longer estimated shipping time.

I wish eBay had a sort option that included delivery times

[Bicurico]

This happens in EU as well and there is a reason for it to exist:

If I buy such an item, it will be despatched to my address from a EU address and effectively I don't pay any customs fees.

The fraud is not to the end user but to the EU: the whole container enters the EU in some corrupt harbour and passes customs without any tax. Then all items are shipped within the EU to the final customer.

The alternative, for me, would be to purchase directly from China, have the item arrive in Portuguese customs, where it sits for up to three months, only to produce a handling and customs fee, which may be more expensive than the item itself.

This also explains why Chinese are investing in shares of EU harbours like the recent purchase of a German harbour.

[jpanhalt]

Not in answer to fraud per se, but relevant to some eBay sellers profiting from the arbitrage with Amazon prices.
 
Namely, I have bought from an eBay seller and received a "gift" from that seller shipped by Amazon and obviously sold by Amazon to the eBay seller.  Thus, I always check the Amazon price on new items that are also listed on eBay.