Author Topic: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?  (Read 50912 times)

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Offline ptricks

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2012, 12:17:48 am »
A lot of misconceptions here. The US health care system was pretty good before obamacare. All the 'people are dying because they can't get insurance' was typical political BS. In my 40 years of living in the US,  I  have never heard of anyone being denied medical care. Even when it was several million dollars for a homeless person, the hospitals performed the necessary procedures.  Obama care for me did nothing but harm. I lost my primary doctor, he wasn't willing to accept what the government wants him to be paid. My medication cost doubled and now I may be forced to take an insurance plan I do not want. 

The role of the government needs to be what the founders of the country wanted it to be, as little government as possible. The nanny state is killing the USA, people whining left and right about how they are entitled to something and the government should provide it. Get off your asses and do something besides sitting on the couch and complaining, and no , voting for a president isn't going to do a single thing. People vote , say they have done their part now it is the politicians that will do everything else. News flash.....They will lie, conceal, deceive, pay off whomever they have to to get in office, once elected they can do whatever the hell they please and there is nothing anyone can do about it for 4 years.  It is truly a screwed up system , one where the corporations and bankers are in control and the president sits on his throne and moves his lips so that the USA can appear to have a leader and all the sheep that are the american public will follow right along, all the way to off the cliff.

If you want to know why medical coverage is outrageously high look back to the 1930's and creation of insurance plans. Originally doctors made no more money than the local tailor. One company who wanted to stand out decided to offer a plan where the company would pay for the medical cost, healthy employees are hard working employees was the mindset. The downside is that some doctors saw this as a way to collect more money so they raised their prices just a small amount, after all they were not dealing with a person now, they were working for a corporation with lots of money.  Bankers liked the idea of insurance, something people pay money for , but may never use, they created their own insurance companies. To compete one insurance company offered more services than another, this included getting hospitals to make deals where the hospital would get paid more from one company than another. To cover the cost insurance companies raised prices on premiums. Premiums increased, insurance companies grew larger and the hospitals and doctors started to think that they should be paid even more. The doctors increased their rates, and the insurance companies paid more to keep their customers, and in turn raised their premiums. Before long the whole thing was a self sustaining profit machine.  Doctors didn't worry any more about whether one patient could pay, they had the insurance company they could bill.

You end up with a cycle of increasing medical cost, increasing pay outs from insurance , increasing premiums. It would be like someone charging you $500 to change the oil in your car. You can't afford that amount of money, but there is an insurance plan that covers it, you pay them just $400 to get what shouldn't have cost $500 in the first place. Insurance companies should be called something else, organized crime,  because that is what they really are, they are no different than paying off the local mobster to have access to something you should be allowed to access already without them . You pay one thing to get something else that shouldn't cost that much to begin with, but does because the insurance company exist, the medical establishment knows they exist, and each one feeds the other.

How do you fix it, well you really can't in a free society. The free market can charge what it wants, but the consumer can choose NOT to pay it. If everyone refused to pay the high cost of healthcare, companies would be forced to reduce prices, just like every other good or service sold. It is only worth what people are willing to pay.



 

Offline poptones

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2012, 12:27:21 am »
The US health care system was pretty good before obamacare.

You're clearly insane. Where the hell do you get your news? FOX?

Obamacare hasn't even gone into effect yet save for a tiny part. Most of it doesn't go into effect until 2014.

Yes, people are dying because they cannot get insurance and cannot afford care. Just google it you'll find real life examples.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 12:34:19 am by poptones »
 

Offline twbranch

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2012, 12:37:13 am »
The US health care system was pretty good before obamacare.

You're clearly insane. Where the hell do you get your news? FOX?

Obamacare hasn't even gone into effect yet save for a tiny part. Most of it doesn't go into effect until 2014.

Yes, people are dying because they cannot get insurance and cannot afford care. Just google it you'll find real life examples.

actually the effect of it has been my insurance premiums tripling, my deductibles going up, prescriptions going up or going over the counter so insurance won't pay for it, and YOU ARE RIGHT is hasn't gone into effect yet. So tell me, how bad do you think its goin to be when it does take affect? By then my taxes are so high I can't put food on the table or afford to put gas in the truck to get to work.

Do some research and you will find out government health care will destroy this country.

Who are you watching? NBC? The only thing they do right is hockey!

BYW...I do not want to pay for someone else to get health care because they are too damn lazy to get off the sofa and work. I work two jobs to supply my family with what I can to keep them safe and feed them and still living on reserve. Why should I support a lazy sack of shit too?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 12:41:44 am by twbranch »
 

Online tom66

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2012, 12:45:24 am »
Umm, no-one dying without healthcare?

First the study with 45,000 dying because they are without insurance - http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

Secondly, there are cases like this: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171#.UHi4hIqPWcE

The role of the government should be (imo) to manage the services required by citizens. I can see it being small being a good thing, so keep healthcare separate, like we do in the UK. NHS is not run by the government - just paid for by it. Funded directly through taxation.

Some people can't genuinely afford healthcare as it is. Many people are unemployed, like the man in the ABC news article. Unemployment is 7.8% I think in the US, it hits even the best, it is hard to get a job nowadays. But the NHS would pay for the healthcare of that person in the UK, even if they aren't contributing to the healthcare fund. Thing is, you find pretty quickly you'll run out of money without doing work, so healthcare is usually the first to go. After all, you feel good now, and think that might continue forever (or until you can get a job again.) These people are not simply lazy, they are a result of financial turmoil.
 

Offline poptones

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2012, 12:50:24 am »
Insurance companies are trying the oldest trick in the book - make a last minute grasp at the golden nugget before it ends. Doctors are required to take less money from medicaied patients and many will stop taking them - so what? There are other doctors. Insurance will have limits on it, insurance companies are now trying to jack it up before regulations go into effect. Don't blame obamacare for that, it had to get through the house and senate. Guess who doesn't like regulation?

Democrat reforms involve higher insurance rates. Republican reforms involve higher insurance rates. So get rid of the insurance companies... good luck. The houses won't pass a single payer plan because the insurance companies pay everyone off to brainwash the public that single payer is "socialism" and anti american.

 

Offline twbranch

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2012, 01:03:52 am »
governments job is to protect the citizens not mother them. I agree healthcare needs to be available to all but for people to pay for others healthcare is absurd. Here in the US the government always passes laws that require people to do things that they should do anyway. what do think  people did before insurance?
 

Online tom66

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2012, 01:05:12 am »
governments job is to protect the citizens not mother them. I agree healthcare needs to be available to all but for people to pay for others healthcare is absurd. Here in the US the government always passes laws that require people to do things that they should do anyway. what do think  people did before insurance?

Died because modern medicine didn't exist?
 

Offline ptricks

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2012, 01:05:45 am »
The US health care system was pretty good before obamacare.

You're clearly insane. Where the hell do you get your news? FOX?

I don't pay attention to what media says, they are all political shills.

Quote
Obamacare hasn't even gone into effect yet save for a tiny part. Most of it doesn't go into effect until 2014.

It has gone into effect with lots of insurance companies, they can't just magically switch to a new policy on the day it starts, it takes time to make the transition and some companies are faster than others and have started to make changes now so they can be ready.

Quote
Yes, people are dying because they cannot get insurance and cannot afford care. Just google it you'll find real life examples.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171

"Willis couldn't afford both, so he chose the pain medications."
That man died for one simple reason, he  did like most people , oh it is just antibiotics I can do without those. When he started feeling worse did he return to the ER ? Nope, he chose not to thinking he would be okay. If he had gone back to the ER and they saw it had gotten worse do you think they would have told him, sorry your dying, get out ?  The main cause from illness isn't lack of money, it is lack of people willing to care for themselves, to be willing to go get help rather than ignoring symptoms, to take personal responsibility rather than doing the poor me routine.

The doctors even said so "
"People don't realize that dental disease can cause serious illness," said Dr. Irvin Silverstein, a dentist at the University of California at San Diego. "The problems are not just cosmetic. Many people die from dental disease.""

I have seen many people come back to an ER when they couldn't afford the medicine and after speaking with the staff arrangements can be made, they have samples and funds to cover necessary treatment, they just don't offer it to everyone because everyone will take it because it is free.  Do you really think any doctor is going to go ' well your going to die without the medicine, sorry you can't get it, now go home and die ?" . Get real, people need to quit blaming everyone else and take personal responsibility for their lives and not complain to the government every time something doesn't go their way.  It would be great if everything were free and everyone had everything they ever wanted, but that isn't reality, someone has to pay for all this stuff and that is something people don't want to admit, they rather demonize people that have more than they do , it is easier to complain than to act.


It wouldn't matter if everyone had 100% health coverage because the problem isn't they can't afford health care so they are dying from diabetes or heart problems, the problem is they don't and are not willing to take care of themselves. I know probably 10 people who know smoking is unhealthy, they know it causes cancer, but they don't give a damn now because they are healthy now, those  people are not going to get check ups no matter how free the care is.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 01:09:00 am by ptricks »
 

Offline poptones

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2012, 01:08:43 am »
It has gone into effect with lots of insurance companies, they can't just magically switch to a new policy on the day it starts

Bullshit. You really must be a fox viewer.

Payers are ALREADY paying for other's health care. How can you not understand this? It's no differnt than buying something at wal mart: the more shoplifters there are, the more shit costs. This is so increidbly simple how can people be so blinded by "I am not gonna pay for everyone else?"

YOU ALREADY DO
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 01:11:04 am by poptones »
 

Offline ptricks

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2012, 01:11:29 am »
It has gone into effect with lots of insurance companies, they can't just magically switch to a new policy on the day it starts

Bullshit. You really must be a fox viewer.

I don't get cable or satellite tv so it is physically impossible.  Insults, the last resort of the uneducated.

 

Offline poptones

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2012, 01:13:08 am »
Well, at least you are smart enough to realize watching FOX news is an insult.

I don't have cable por satellite either. In fact, I don't have a TV. So what? FOX doesn't have a website?
 

Offline ptricks

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2012, 01:28:01 am »
Well, at least you are smart enough to realize watching FOX news is an insult.

I don't have cable por satellite either. In fact, I don't have a TV. So what? FOX doesn't have a website?

Did you even read the Harvard study to see how they determined the numbers ?  They interviewed people 1 time and if that person died in the next 14 years they assumed it was from lack of health insurance, that is poor work, but not surprising when you see who funded the work,  http://www.pnhp.org/about/about-pnhp

Don't just read something off the net and assume it is the honest truth, always look at the source.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2012, 05:27:46 am »
My dentist is not contracted to my medical aid, so I pay cash. Works out a lot cheaper, and good for both me and him, price wise. Good work, and he has small hands, and a great chairside manner. It would be expensive if I needed specialised dentistry, but an annual checkup will catch problems before they become big, and when the treatment is both low cost and effective.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2012, 06:24:22 am »
I personally  have a lot of American friends , from the Radio Amateur world, some of which come and visit us & stay a while, I care very much what happens to them, not so keen to visit them in the US, as imigration think every human being is a terroist, and in my experience treat any visitor like bits of crap, and I'm white English born and bred, but that's another thread.

Trust me, you should make lots of friends with those damn chinese in china, for sure they don't grope your kids or grannies at the immigration checkpoints.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 06:28:06 am by BravoV »
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2012, 06:56:38 am »
Greetings EEVBees:

--Poptones has said to Ptricks "You're clearly insane. Where the hell do you get your news? FOX?"

--Ah, yes another Trollhouse Cookie from the latest foul mouthed hater. Why not just make the argument, why the need to insult and curse. Does he not know that unrestrained hatred and hostility, does him more harm than the people he disagrees with. Why does he always make it personal. Thank your lucky stars that if you do not have to work for someone with this kind of respect for others. Just imagine what a living hell it would be to have to work for someone that decided to hate your immortal guts, just because you took the wrong side of a single issue. Yep, he is long on hostility, hatred, cursing, and making it personal, but short on direct answers to challenges, and links to sources.

"When people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together."
Isaac Asimov 1920 - 1992
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #90 on: October 13, 2012, 07:59:01 am »
..yadda...yadda..... but short on direct answers to challenges, and links to sources.
Since you asked for it, here you go ...

http://www.cbp.gov/custoday/mar2000/bodyscan.htm , pick you choice between body scan or groping err.. I mean pat down. :D

If you opted for body scan ....

-> http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2010/11/16/leaked-images-body-scanners-hit-web/  :P

or this -> http://bodyscannertruth.com/?p=1596

Something to spark the imagination -> Donna D'Errico in stars and stripes  :P


If you choose to get the groping (damn.. blame it on my keyboard ;D) , pat down ...

-> http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/24/2910413/immigration-agent-pleads-guilty.html


Geezz Sarge, where you've been all this time ? Living in the cave ?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 08:10:31 am by BravoV »
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2012, 08:26:06 am »
Dear BravoV:

--The quote you attribute to me is only partially accurate. I am familiar with all the sources you posted, and I do not disagree with the thrust of your argument. You are responding to a post I made in criticism of of hostility, cursing, and making things personal, to which your answer seems to me to be a complete non sequitur. Please post an accurate quote of what I said that you disagree with, so I can respond appropriately. Or are you going to post some more links that no one disputes, and make every one guess just what it is you are disputing.

--And, by the way, I do not think Poptones would approve of you citing the hated Fox News.

"Happy for you to desoldering, please."
Wun Hung Lo 1948 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 08:28:39 am by SgtRock »
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2012, 08:31:32 am »
The insurance company's are going the same way here in the UK but then so are their customers, after the recent flooding in some parts the insurance company's are either refusing to insure some people due to the fact that they are a greater risk and others are raising premiums across the board, the increased premiums is making some people and the media shout about it being unfair they are not in a flood area but their insurance is going up.

The whole idea of insurance is that the many pay for the misfortunes of the few, a form of early socialism if you like.
It is not you pay a pittance to some company that in the event of some personal disaster must magic up the money to pay for it and neither is a system where the fat cat share holders and bosses of the insurance company charge a huge fee to its customers in order to get massively rich while only paying out a token to the unfortunate one who have to make a claim or even denying the claim on fatuous grounds.
The first insurance company's were of course the friendly societies and were run for the benefit of the members but they have been gobbled up by the banks and hedge funds now.
I am not one for big government per see but the likes of the banks and hedge funds need bringing down and it takes regulation to do so regulation which over the past 30 years has been relentlessly striped away.   
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2012, 12:52:05 am »
FWIT one of the things I don't like about our universal health care, is that everyone pretty much pays tho same, and there is no (financial) incentive to actually live a healthy lifestyle.
I like paying for medicare of course, because that's how the system works. But I'm (who lives a healthy livestyle) paying the same as a morbidly obese chain smoker with preventable diabetes etc
It doesn't seem right. But I don't think there is an easy solution for this.

Dave.

Because it's a slippery slope.  Penalize someone for being fat?  Then penalize someone for being a slow learner and needing more remedial education.  It should be based on income.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 12:54:54 am by MikeK »
 

Offline bullet308

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2012, 01:20:48 am »
Want to know what a slimy, covered-in-pig-fat slippery slope looks like?

Its the one you are standing at the head of when you don't have insurance and its a race between getting a job and loosing everything because you get sick.

And dont think it cant happen to you. Because it can.
>>>BULLET>>>
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2012, 01:27:24 am »
Because it's a slippery slope.  Penalize someone for being fat? 

Not exactly, but you could reward people for living a healthy lifestyle in some way. I know that sounds just like a wording difference, but the fact is that people who deliberately make poor health lifestyle choices do cost the economy (and the health system) a lot of money.
So there is a very valid argument for (financially) encouraging people to live a healthy lifestyle, as then everyone wins.
We (in Oz) currently heavily tax smoking for example, and also have no GST on fresh food. So it's already happening.

Dave.
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2012, 01:44:49 am »
you could reward people for living a healthy lifestyle in some way. I know that sounds just like a wording difference, but the fact is that people who deliberately make poor health lifestyle choices do cost the economy (and the health system) a lot of money.
So there is a very valid argument for (financially) encouraging people to live a healthy lifestyle, as then everyone wins.
We (in Oz) currently heavily tax smoking for example, and also have no GST on fresh food. So it's already happening.

Dave.

I don't disagree.  But one could argue that you already benefit from a healthy lifestyle.  You're healthier.  The fat guy pays X dollars and winds up with all sorts of health problems.  You pay X dollars and have a much healthier body.  Sounds like you have the better deal to me.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2012, 01:54:56 am »
I don't disagree.  But one could argue that you already benefit from a healthy lifestyle.  You're healthier.  The fat guy pays X dollars and winds up with all sorts of health problems.  You pay X dollars and have a much healthier body.  Sounds like you have the better deal to me.

Sure, that's the personal aspect to it.
The other part of the personal aspect is that it still doesn't feel right when I pay the same medicare levy as the 150kg chain smoker. I already get a discount on my car for having no accidents for example, but the samei s not true for living a healthy lifestyle and never having to go to the doctor.
But yes, I'm ultimately the winner either way.

Then there is the more important community aspect of it where we all not only pay more, but also have our health system overloaded with these people who make poor lifestyle health choices. Health system capacity that would be better utilised for the unfortunately sick, the way it should be.
I of course support everyone's right to make those choices if they so want, but when their choices impact impact me and my family (both financially, and possibly medically due to lack of resources), I think that makes the argument valid.

Dave.
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2012, 01:56:59 am »
Want to know what a slimy, covered-in-pig-fat slippery slope looks like?

Its the one you are standing at the head of when you don't have insurance and its a race between getting a job and loosing everything because you get sick.

And dont think it cant happen to you. Because it can.

Umm, okay?  My words may have come out the wrong way.  A slippery slope refers to a possibly poor decision with possibly good intentions that, by its precedence, causes bigger problems than intended.  A.k.a. "the thin edge of the wedge."

I actually went through a period of a few years without health insurance.  It sucks.  I'm pro-universal-healthcare.  People without health insurance insanely pay more for the same services than the insured.

And what most Americans aren't aware of...Hospitals not only charge the uninsured more, but they then SUE them for not being able to pay.  Yep, that's right.  Happens all the time.  Hospitals used to just accept it as part of their service, but not anymore.  It's insane.
 

Offline bullet308

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Re: Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?
« Reply #99 on: October 15, 2012, 02:03:10 am »
My apologies. I have no idea what in the hell I thought I was responding to.

Its been a rough week.  :-/

>>>BULLET>>>
 


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