Morally Bankrupt shenanigans

[targ2002]

Having seen multiple threads about engineers being morally bankrupt.

What ethical and moral standards do you think we as engineers should follow?

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[T3sl4co1l]

Absolute utilitarianism.

... 

Tim

[AF6LJ]

That's a hard question; but when faced with a hard question like that I fall back on
"Do Unto Others, As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

[Macbeth]

That's a hard question; but when faced with a hard question like that I fall back on
"Do Unto Others, As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

I know of some guys who are engineers and doctors. Not with us now, but they were under the delusion that they would be fucking 72 virgins right now...

[AF6LJ]

That's a hard question; but when faced with a hard question like that I fall back on
"Do Unto Others, As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

I know of some guys who are engineers and doctors. Not with us now, but they were under the delusion that they would be fucking 72 virgins right now...

I wish I could address that; but I would rather not drag this thread through the ordeal. 

[Macbeth]

That's a hard question; but when faced with a hard question like that I fall back on
"Do Unto Others, As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

I know of some guys who are engineers and doctors. Not with us now, but they were under the delusion that they would be fucking 72 virgins right now...

I wish I could address that; but I would rather not drag this thread through the ordeal. 

Yes. I also follow "The Golden Rule" in life. Unfortunately it seems some peoples morals are utterly different than others...

[retrolefty]

While this thread does have a high probability of flaming out there is a related topic of the ethics requirements of those engineers that hold 'professional accreditation' (have a 'stamp') in their domain. Perhaps if any engineers here hold such they could share what the legal/ethical requirements are. That might save this thread.

[Deathwish]

That's a hard question; but when faced with a hard question like that I fall back on
"Do Unto Others, As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

I love the idea of a bath with candles, chocolates, a glass of wine and me waterproof oscilloscope..........

[T3sl4co1l]

Relevant:
http://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html

Tim

[AF6LJ]

Relevant:
http://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html

Tim

Number 4 is tough for many, since the bribery comes in the form of a pay check, or a path to advancment.

[ConKbot]

Absolute utilitarianism.

... 

Tim

...heh...

[zapta]

Having seen multiple threads about engineers being morally bankrupt.

It's sensationalism to attract attention to the threads, don't fall for it.

[Galenbo]

What ethical and moral standards do you think we as engineers should follow?

That's everyone for himself.
I, personally, refuse to work on GPS person location spy devices and traffic speed detection devices.

[Delta]

That's a hard question; but when faced with a hard question like that I fall back on
"Do Unto Others, As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

I know of some guys who are engineers and doctors. Not with us now, but they were under the delusion that they would be fucking 72 virgins right now...

Why do they always want 72 virgins?  Surely 6 dirty MILFs would be much better... 😂

[Deathwish]

That's a hard question; but when faced with a hard question like that I fall back on
"Do Unto Others, As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

I know of some guys who are engineers and doctors. Not with us now, but they were under the delusion that they would be fucking 72 virgins right now...

Why do they always want 72 virgins?  Surely 6 dirty MILFs would be much better... 😂

they all got a copy ....

[BradC]

Why do they always want 72 virgins?  Surely 6 dirty MILFs would be much better... 😂

Nobody ever said the virgins were female.

[Macbeth]

Nobody ever said the virgins were female.

Well, actually there is mention of 28 young boys as well...

[G7PSK]

I go by the adage, don't crap on your own doorstep or piss into the wind also the customer is always right except when they are wrong to the point of delusional then I just wont work for them.

[Seekonk]

It is not such an easy question to answer.  I built an inspection machine that had to pass a test.  I knew if I did the test this way on a test sample it would pass, another way probably not.  They wrote the spec and it was not specific.  I did the test so it would pass.  Then we did a test on their actual product.  95% of their production failed to pass their own specification.  The inspection machine was spot on on the defects it reported. They figured everyone was happy with the product as it was so they opened the spec to ten times what it was before.   The inspection machine was later scrapped because they would not provide the technical people to support it.  Everyone was happy.

[Rupunzell]

Myopia, Greed and a deeper understanding of humanity...

Some decades ago the space shuttle Challenger was destroyed during launch. After this horrific event there was an investigation to try and figure out what happened. One of the most significant events during the presentation of findings to congress with this demo by Professor Richard Feynman, The O-rings cannot seal properly after being subjected to cold temperatures below their design specification. This resulted in a
leak growing into a fatal and deadly failure. Why was NASA so driven to launch under extremely questionable conditions that the engineers involved knew the O-rings have an extreme risk of failure? Management had their own agenda. At the time, NASA was driven to get an US Air Force contract to put stuff into orbit that was once Atlas Rocket payload. It was a political move to shift money from the US Air Force Atlas rocket (BTW, over 700 launched, ZERO failure) program to NASA's shuttle. This is the motive behind Reagan's speech of, "making space flight a routine monthly event."


Management and politicians making technical decisions based on their self motivated, self deceived agenda..


Space shuttle Columbia...
This one failed during entry-landing approach.

After the Challenger shuttle failure, changes to NASA management were made giving the engineering folks more authority over launch decisions in conjunction with management.

Columbia failed as the world watched on live broadcast, another horrific event.

The engineering folks could not believe the rear wing leading edge tiles made of carbon-carbon matrix (very hard stuff. Hard = Brittle) could be damaged by insulation foam from the main fuel cylinder hitting it.... Until the engineering folks did some testing. To their shock and amazement, the foam with enough velocity easily penetrated these carbon tiles making a hole that resulted in the loss of shuttle Columbia.



Engineers and related technical folks myopia and self deceived belief that they know all that can possibly happen with their creation.


Both are examples of a group-tribe's individual agenda, myopia and self deceived belief they are correct. Both have been subjected to human failings that is innate to being human. Nature has it's own way regardless of how human beings desire it to be and Nature is absolutely unforgiving in it's actions. The idea and doctrine of governance (this includes organized religion) is very much a human creation, created by an individual or group as their vision of how their world should be. More often than not, those who create, enforce and support human created laws, regulations, customs and such are not always congruent with the way's of Nature resulting in a host of conflicts and problems.

As for morality, consider what has been presented and what are the points of reference and motivation for the definition of, "morality."



Bernice

[AF6LJ]

Some learn from the errors of others, some learn that saving face or running the railroad ontime regardless of the cost is a loosing proposition. Others think they are above all that and have further to fall when it is their turn.

I remember seeing the debris trail in the sky from Colombia shortly after hearing about it on the news.

[zapta]

I remember seeing the debris trail in the sky from Colombia shortly after hearing about it on the news.

This must be a memory of a life time. Can you tell us more?

[AF6LJ]

I remember seeing the debris trail in the sky from Colombia shortly after hearing about it on the news.

This must be a memory of a life time. Can you tell us more?

I was going to work that morning I heard the news of the shuttle burning up on reentry.
I went out side and saw two streaks parallel in the sky starting in the north east about 25 or so degrees off the horizon heading in an east south-est direction. There was no commercial jet traffic in that part of the sky.
Before leaving I went back in and searched for articles that would display the actual path... None could be found.
I went on to work and at work our editor had the TV in his office on and was watching CNN, they had the path of reentry, that confirmed what I had seen. You could tell it wasn't a conventional con trail, it just hung in the sky. I couldn't judge the altitude since there were no clouds under it for a shadow to be cast on the cloud cover.

Accidents happen, the shuttles were still test craft, those piloting it were test pilots. A piece of rigid foam traveling at 300 plus miles per hour can do a lot of damage.