Covid 19 virus

[not1xor1]

As for feral and wild cats, it's better to stay away from them for a while.

I shall have to give up my cat-dominium business 

[Sredni]

I even read that in the US, a couple of days ago, a 17 years old boy died of COVID-19 just  because he could not afford to pay the hospital while yesterday mr Trump promised to help Italy with health devices for a value of 100 millions of USD

that does make little sense given that even the US have a lack of those devices while the contagion in the most stricken parts of Italy is already decreasing and probably Spain might need them more than us now
...

In the USA, law exist that an acute patient cannot be rejected by any hospital - even private hospitals.  The patient must be stabilized and under no immediate danger before they can let the patient leave.  Law is one thing, hospitals and emergency rooms are in practice a chaotic place.  I had to visit the emergency room on a couple of occasions - had the wait-time for the 2nd visit been as long as the 1st visit, my wife would probably have died waiting.  If you can wait, they will see you - insured or not.  Died while waiting - well, happens to the insured and uninsured.

That 17 year old who died may not be in the USA.  Besides being rejected by hospital which is hard to believe, according to CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR March 26 update (with corrections)^[1]), there is no confirmed deaths for anyone at or below 19 years old. 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/17-year-old-dies-of-coronavirus-was-turned-away-for-lacking-insurance/

A Los Angeles teen — who tested positive for the coronavirus — died of septic shock after being turned away from an urgent care facility because he didn’t have health insurance.

While the 17-year old’s positive COVID-19 test didn’t arrive until after his death, residents of the LA neighborhood of Lancaster are outraged.

Lancaster Mayor R. Rex Parris told the Daily Mail the teen was healthy and had no pre-existing conditions before his death. Parris said the boy was turned away from the urgent care facility despite having respiratory issues because he didn’t have insurance and was told to go to a public hospital instead.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-teenager-death-california-health-insurance-care-emergency-room-covid-19-a9429946.html

Updated: A 17-year-old whose death was initially linked to the novel coronavirus despite not having any previously reported health conditions was denied treatment at a California medical facility over his lack of insurance, according to the mayor.

R Rex Parris, the mayor of Lancaster, California, confirmed the teen’s death in a video posted to YouTube on Wednesday, in which he warned residents to take the global pandemic seriously and practice self-isolation and social distancing measures.

“The Friday before he died, he was healthy,” the mayor said about the teenager. “By Wednesday, he was dead.”

The mayor said the teen “didn’t have insurance, so they did not treat him” when he arrived at an urgent care facility in the area. The medical staff then told the child to go to a local public hospital.

That mayor may not be in the USA...

[not1xor1]

Austrian authorities are facing a class action lawsuit involving as many as 2,500 tourists over their handling of a coronavirus outbreak in the popular Austrian winter sports resort of Ischgl, in Tyrol province.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/austria-ski-resort-ischgl-coronavirus-intl/index.html

[maginnovision]

A private urgent care is not the same as a hospital. The sad fact is they probably wouldn't have been able to do anything except try to get him to a hospital anyway. As the story shows he didn't make it there. His family should have called 911. If you're EVER in doubt in the US call 911. It will not be cheap but they will do everything they can.

[vodka]

As for feral and wild cats, it's better to stay away from them for a while.

I shall have to give up my cat-dominium business 

We are lost the emergency ration, we have to hunt pigeon ,like last choice.   

[SkyMaster]

Respirators and suits providing significant protection against chemical and biological agents (actual hazmat suits) are dual use products.
https://dsgl.defence.gov.au/dsglcontent/Pages/1A004.aspx
Not something you can just stroll down to the local shops and buy.

A DuPont Tychem 10,000 Level A Suit cost less than $2000 in Canada, a little bit expensive for Halloween, but available.

A good example but have you tried buying one? Plenty of controlled products are advertised on online stores, but it doesn't mean they will sell to the general public. Also thats only the suit shell, still plenty of other components and procedures required.

Hazmat suit:
(Attachment Link)

Or is thing going to go the way of drones and industry will need to find some new term to actually differentiate any given industrial coverall from biological/chemical hazard protection?

The DuPont Tychem 10,000 Level A Suit looks just like the Hazmat image you posted.

The Canadian web site (Fisher Scientific) mentions "For Use:  industrial, HazMat and domestic preparedness applications". By domestic, they probably do not mean Military 

Maybe the rules in Canada are different from the rules in Australia.

Anyway, I am sure that in your home lab you have plenty of equipment that are typically not sold at the consumer level.

Also, when I buy automotive paint (to paint cars) the package always read something along the line of "Not to be sold to consumer". I guess in Canada auto part stores are not considered consumer level stores.

 

[Stray Electron]

From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

    I don't know where you get your information from but you need a new source! Nothing in this statement is true. NO state governor asked for "hard restrictions" and to date NO state border has been closed.  My son just drove from California to Florida and was never stopped once. That's across the entire United States from west to east.  Some states including Florida are just starting to set up checkpoints this past Monday where people are being checked for the virus but no one is being turned back. Anyone that is suspected of having the virus is being sent to the nearest hospital. Other states that surround virus hot spots of New York, New Jersey, Louisiana are taking similar measures.

   I doubt that "Don" is picking numbers off of his head. Most likely he's picking numbers that reflect the actual number of ventilators available and telling Cuomo and the other governors that they can't each have another 40,000 ventilators. (That is the number that Cuomo is demanding and he just got an additional 8,000 from the feds this past week.) It has nothing to do with political parties, I'll just point out that the two states that so far have gotten the lion shares of ventilators from the federal government are both staunch Democratic states (New York and California) with Democratic governors.  So far, Florida which is a strongly Republican state with a Republican governor has gotten none!  But in the last few weeks we have gotten an extra 200,000 New Yorkers that fled New York when a quarantine was imposed and flew to Florida. And now two international cruise ship full of exposed and infected crews and passengers are being landed in Florida.  Oh, and who got the two US Navy hospital ships? New York and California!

[Stray Electron]

Austrian authorities are facing a class action lawsuit involving as many as 2,500 tourists over their handling of a coronavirus outbreak in the popular Austrian winter sports resort of Ischgl, in Tyrol province.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/austria-ski-resort-ischgl-coronavirus-intl/index.html

   That statement sounds like it came from one of our US ambulance-chasing scum-bag lawyers.  They're announcing a possible class-action lawsuit involving as many as 2500 plaintiffs but the press release never says what it is that the resort is alleged to have done wrong.

[Cerebus]

From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

    I don't know where you get your information from but you need a new source! Nothing in this statement is true. NO state governor asked for "hard restrictions" and to date NO state border has been closed.  My son just drove from California to Florida and was never stopped once.

You're being a tad parochial and failing to realise that other federated countries exist and the federated entities within them are called states - in this case the states being referred to are the states of Australia. The big clue is in the second line of the comment you're quoting  that starts "The Coalition  government in Australia...".

[Someone]

Respirators and suits providing significant protection against chemical and biological agents (actual hazmat suits) are dual use products.
https://dsgl.defence.gov.au/dsglcontent/Pages/1A004.aspx
Not something you can just stroll down to the local shops and buy.

A DuPont Tychem 10,000 Level A Suit cost less than $2000 in Canada, a little bit expensive for Halloween, but available.

A good example but have you tried buying one? Plenty of controlled products are advertised on online stores, but it doesn't mean they will sell to the general public. Also thats only the suit shell, still plenty of other components and procedures required.

Hazmat suit:
(Attachment Link)

Or is thing going to go the way of drones and industry will need to find some new term to actually differentiate any given industrial coverall from biological/chemical hazard protection?

The DuPont Tychem 10,000 Level A Suit looks just like the Hazmat image you posted.

The Canadian web site (Fisher Scientific) mentions "For Use:  industrial, HazMat and domestic preparedness applications". By domestic, they probably do not mean Military 

Maybe the rules in Canada are different from the rules in Australia.

Anyway, I am sure that in your home lab you have plenty of equipment that are typically not sold at the consumer level.

Also, when I buy automotive paint (to paint cars) the package always read something along the line of "Not to be sold to consumer". I guess in Canada auto part stores are not considered consumer level stores.

 

Yes, that is a picture of that same hazmat suit you mention (so clearly you aren't actually familiar with the things you point to), its an example of an actual watertight hazmat suit but alone is still not very effective. Not being typically sold to consumers is very different from a product stocked but not sold to unlicensed/unregistered users. Thermal cameras used to be in that sort of category and high resolution and/or frame rate modes only recently became available to the general public. You keep coming back with nothing more than your thoughts, rather than actual examples or experiences. But the actual point....

So far all the "reports" of people wearing hazmat suits have turned out to be simple coveralls. Most of them were the absorbent dust suits as used in cleanrooms, which are completely ineffective and likely worse than regular clothing + hand hygiene.

[Someone]

Nonsense, hazmat suits are heavily restricted objects/systems.

That's a faintly ridiculous thing to say, protective clothing and equipment is not the sort of thing that, in any sane country, falls into the category of "heavily restricted objects/systems".

Respirators and suits providing significant protection against chemical and biological agents (actual hazmat suits) are dual use products.
https://dsgl.defence.gov.au/dsglcontent/Pages/1A004.aspx
Not something you can just stroll down to the local shops and buy.

Dual use = export controlled. People around here buy dual use things all the time, fast FPGAs, thermal cameras. A couple of weeks back I had to complete an end user certificate to import a very ordinary FPGA board from the US because it is classified as dual use. Buying similar things domestically  without importing them happens with no paper work at all. I note that the DSGL list you pointed to includes full face respirators in the same category - are you really trying to tell us that your government treats these as "highly restricted" and one could not wander down to the local supplier of equipment to car resprayers and just pick one off the shelf? You certainly could here, I have done.

Crossing borders is another level of complexity but as goods get higher and higher up the "dual usefulness" just buying them domestically requires paperwork/oversight to ensure they are not being resold/exported/used for their possible military applications. Thermal cameras used to be like that and were held under lock and key like firearms. Lots of really boring things are mysteriously hard/impossible to obtain, all under dual use controls.

And no, you can't walk down to the local respray shop and buy biological rated filters for a full face mask, you get filters that are effective against industrial solvents/particulates.

[Cerebus]

And no, you can't walk down to the local respray shop and buy biological rated filters for a full face mask, you get filters that are effective against industrial solvents/particulates.

I can actually hear the scrapping noise those goalposts are making as you move them with the strawman draped across them.

[Electro Detective]

I have good news and I have bad news.

It's April Fools day...  in the middle of a pandemic.

Friendly FYI: it's been AFD warming up for a few weeks now, going well,  and apparently getting a 6 month extension
or more till further notice   

But don't tell anyone, otherwise the joke will be a fail,
and the fun will end before everyone is bankrupt, unemployed and destitute,
and only then will they realize what an uber extended AFD job it was   

and enjoy a good laugh over it    

[Stray Electron]

From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

    I don't know where you get your information from but you need a new source! Nothing in this statement is true. NO state governor asked for "hard restrictions" and to date NO state border has been closed.  My son just drove from California to Florida and was never stopped once.

You're being a tad parochial and failing to realise that other federated countries exist and the federated entities within them are called states - in this case the states being referred to are the states of Australia. The big clue is in the second line of the comment you're quoting  that starts "The Coalition  government in Australia...".

  And you neglected to read the rest of his statement which specifically about the US. Here is the rest of of what you ignored, the last line in the first paragraph makes it clear that he was referring to the US and each of the three following paragraphs also refer specifically to the US. Go back and read his post again, the quote about "The Coalition Government of Australia" was a previous paragraph.

"From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

The argument that they were "distracted by impeachment" doesn't wash, either, as Bill Clinton was able to deal with important issues during his impeachment, & Richard Nixon did a lot of important diplomatic work, including the beginning of normalised relations with China, & the extrication of the USA from Vietnam, whilst under the shadow of possible impeachment.

Those of my generation grew up seeing the USA as the immensely practical "can do" country, who could take on any disaster properly, & prevail.

We saw that start to come apart with Hurricane Katrina, & it is worse with this crisis.
What the hell happened, USA?"

[vk6zgo]

From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

    I don't know where you get your information from but you need a new source! Nothing in this statement is true. NO state governor asked for "hard restrictions" and to date NO state border has been closed.  My son just drove from California to Florida and was never stopped once. That's across the entire United States from west to east.  Some states including Florida are just starting to set up checkpoints this past Monday where people are being checked for the virus but no one is being turned back. Anyone that is suspected of having the virus is being sent to the nearest hospital. Other states that surround virus hot spots of New York, New Jersey, Louisiana are taking similar measures.

   I doubt that "Don" is picking numbers off of his head. Most likely he's picking numbers that reflect the actual number of ventilators available and telling Cuomo and the other governors that they can't each have another 40,000 ventilators. (That is the number that Cuomo is demanding and he just got an additional 8,000 from the feds this past week.) It has nothing to do with political parties, I'll just point out that the two states that so far have gotten the lion shares of ventilators from the federal government are both staunch Democratic states (New York and California) with Democratic governors.  So far, Florida which is a strongly Republican state with a Republican governor has gotten none!  But in the last few weeks we have gotten an extra 200,000 New Yorkers that fled New York when a quarantine was imposed and flew to Florida. And now two international cruise ship full of exposed and infected crews and passengers are being landed in Florida.  Oh, and who got the two US Navy hospital ships? New York and California!

It would be nice if you read my post properly!

The States referred to are the Australian States.

There was a change of subject in the next sentence, where I wrote:-

"i'm not really sure if that would be legally possible in the USA---------it certainly wouldn't be, politically"

My point in that sentence was that Australian States may have greater autonomy under our Constitution, than you have under yours, & of course, you have many more States!

I apologise for not giving President Trump his full title, but it is common amongst Australians & others to use the shortened first name version, thus, the Australian PM is often referred to as "Scotty", the UK PM as "Boris", the Russian President as "Vlad", & so on.

[Cerebus]

From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

    I don't know where you get your information from but you need a new source! Nothing in this statement is true. NO state governor asked for "hard restrictions" and to date NO state border has been closed.  My son just drove from California to Florida and was never stopped once.

You're being a tad parochial and failing to realise that other federated countries exist and the federated entities within them are called states - in this case the states being referred to are the states of Australia. The big clue is in the second line of the comment you're quoting  that starts "The Coalition  government in Australia...".

  And you neglected to read the rest of his statement which specifically about the US. Here is the rest of of what you ignored, the last line in the first paragraph makes it clear that he was referring to the US and each of the three following paragraphs also refer specifically to the US. Go back and read his post again, the quote about "The Coalition Government of Australia" was a previous paragraph.

No, I read the whole thing, and understood it. It seems you failed to do either.

[Someone]

That's a faintly ridiculous thing to say, protective clothing and equipment is not the sort of thing that, in any sane country, falls into the category of "heavily restricted objects/systems".

Respirators and suits providing significant protection against chemical and biological agents (actual hazmat suits) are dual use products.
https://dsgl.defence.gov.au/dsglcontent/Pages/1A004.aspx
Not something you can just stroll down to the local shops and buy.

I note that the DSGL list you pointed to includes full face respirators in the same category - are you really trying to tell us that your government treats these as "highly restricted" and one could not wander down to the local supplier of equipment to car resprayers and just pick one off the shelf? You certainly could here, I have done.

And no, you can't walk down to the local respray shop and buy biological rated filters for a full face mask, you get filters that are effective against industrial solvents/particulates.

I can actually hear the scrapping noise those goalposts are making as you move them with the strawman draped across them.

It does appear you introduced buying full face mask respirators retail, yet failed to link them back to the dual use product classifications which separates out those which are controlled. Seems this thread is full of people who just look at things on a superficial level and equate them, when protective equipment is actually extremely nuanced and complicated.

[Bud]

Some time in March:



3 weeks later:

[Cerebus]

That's a faintly ridiculous thing to say, protective clothing and equipment is not the sort of thing that, in any sane country, falls into the category of "heavily restricted objects/systems".

Respirators and suits providing significant protection against chemical and biological agents (actual hazmat suits) are dual use products.
https://dsgl.defence.gov.au/dsglcontent/Pages/1A004.aspx
Not something you can just stroll down to the local shops and buy.

I note that the DSGL list you pointed to includes full face respirators in the same category - are you really trying to tell us that your government treats these as "highly restricted" and one could not wander down to the local supplier of equipment to car resprayers and just pick one off the shelf? You certainly could here, I have done.

And no, you can't walk down to the local respray shop and buy biological rated filters for a full face mask, you get filters that are effective against industrial solvents/particulates.

I can actually hear the scrapping noise those goalposts are making as you move them with the strawman draped across them.

It does appear you introduced buying full face mask respirators retail, yet failed to link them back to the dual use product classifications which separates out those which are controlled. Seems this thread is full of people who just look at things on a superficial level and equate them, when protective equipment is actually extremely nuanced and complicated.

Nuance you fail to appreciate, seeing as exactly the same elements that protect against solvents also protect against chemical warfare agents - yes those are on the DSGL list. (It's good old fashioned activated charcoal for the record). You're the one who threw in the 'biological rated filters' strawman. Biological rated filters, of course, are what we have spent countless fun hours discussing here in relation to Covid-19. There is very little special about filters that will exclude biological risks - military gas masks for this purpose are rated FFP3 just like the kind of masks we've been talking about for Covid-19. You bluster about "heavily restricted items" but seem to have very little actual knowledge of hazmat technology and I guess are hoping that the rest of don't either. Well, I do, and a casual glance at that list of restricted uses are all use cases for respirators that I've bought and owned with no official hoops to jump through, just money to pay to everyday trade suppliers.  Briitish Army standard issue NBC respirators are rated AB2EK-P3 and you can commercially buy similar rated filters here https://www.rapidonline.com/3m-6099-gas-combination-filter-abek1p3-2-pairs-49-5558 with no fuss, no muss. This stuff is used industrially by the bucketload every day. For the record, the respirators used by blokes spray painting cars are actually fully air supplied (the reason being isocyanates used in modern 2 pack paints are nasty from a respiratory point of view and  hard to trap adequately in filters), so are pretty much proof against anything and would therefore fall into all the DSGL restricted categories. And yet you can still just pick them up at a trade counter.

You've gone to surprising lengths to try and ridicule the OP who mentioned hazmat suits, gainsay me and one other poster who's called you out on hyperbole too, and you still haven't actually made your case. You have completely failed to demonstrate that hazmat suits are, in any fashion other then export control, "heavily restricted items", failed to demonstrate that there is any official "control" forbidding their sale in the normal course of business. You just keep doubling down on the same statement without actually providing any proof, yet conveniently exclude any evidence of them being on general industrial sale by just gainsaying it thus:

A DuPont Tychem 10,000 Level A Suit cost less than $2000 in Canada, a little bit expensive for Halloween, but available.

A good example but have you tried buying one? Plenty of controlled products are advertised on online stores, but it doesn't mean they will sell to the general public. Also thats only the suit shell, still plenty of other components and procedures required.

You're on a hiding to nothing but still persist. It beggars belief the lengths some people will go to to avoid saying "Perhaps I overstated the case".

This is my last word on the subject as I'm sure that I'm boring the rest of the world to tears, and they will have formed their own opinions on the reasonableness of your and my arguments a long time ago (If they were stupid enough to keep paying attention).

[Rick Law]

A private urgent care is not the same as a hospital. The sad fact is they probably wouldn't have been able to do anything except try to get him to a hospital anyway. As the story shows he didn't make it there. His family should have called 911. If you're EVER in doubt in the US call 911. It will not be cheap but they will do everything they can.

Yup - if ever in doubt, call 911 or go to the emergency room.

Emergency Room(s) has everything in terms of equipment, and not to forget, access to specialist.  I have been with the same doctor (in private practice) for over thirty years.  I took my wife to see our doctor.  She (the doctor) poke and feel and then said it would be best for us to get to the hospital emergency.  She went on to explain: if we ordered blood test, and as needed, x-ray, CAT scan, whatever, you could be dead before the results are back, and if not, you can wait for an appointment with a specialist.  She was right on.  That was my first visit to the emergency room.

The second time I took my wife to the emergency room directly in the middle of the night.  It was over my wife's objection because she wanted to wait till morning till the doctor's office opens.  At the emergency, after the initial vital check, she was taken to the "resuscitation room" to stabilize her.  She was (re)admitted to the hospital a few hours later.  I was told during the stabilization that "she wouldn't have last the night" the condition she was in.

So when in doubt, get to the Emergency Room if you can, or call 911.

I now own a blood pressure meter and a heart beat monitor.  They are not medical grade and need practice to get consistent readings.  But, they help me make better decisions.

Lastly, one thing we do not normally think about:  While Obama Care requires medical records to be electronic, it did not requires inter-connectivity between medical services/groups.  We were using a lab and medical imaging service in a group different from the ones used by our specialist-doctor and the hospital.  I know from discussing with the doctor about a prior scan but then learn that he never received the result for that scan.  So I started waiting for the results (and CD of images) to hand to the doctor directly.  Eventually I switched over to using the same lab/imaging service used by the specialist to avoid data lost and time lost.

So, if you have the need for specialist-doctor and your specialist-doctor use an imaging service differ than your GP-doctor, do put that into consideration.

I even read that in the US, a couple of days ago, a 17 years old boy died of COVID-19 just  because he could not afford to pay the hospital while yesterday mr Trump promised to help Italy with health devices for a value of 100 millions of USD

that does make little sense given that even the US have a lack of those devices while the contagion in the most stricken parts of Italy is already decreasing and probably Spain might need them more than us now
...

In the USA, law exist that an acute patient cannot be rejected by any hospital - even private hospitals.  The patient must be stabilized and under no immediate danger before they can let the patient leave.  Law is one thing, hospitals and emergency rooms are in practice a chaotic place.  I had to visit the emergency room on a couple of occasions - had the wait-time for the 2nd visit been as long as the 1st visit, my wife would probably have died waiting.  If you can wait, they will see you - insured or not.  Died while waiting - well, happens to the insured and uninsured.

That 17 year old who died may not be in the USA.  Besides being rejected by hospital which is hard to believe, according to CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR March 26 update (with corrections)^[1]), there is no confirmed deaths for anyone at or below 19 years old. 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/17-year-old-dies-of-coronavirus-was-turned-away-for-lacking-insurance/
...
...

The article pointed out that "LA County announced the boy had died from the coronavirus — health officials said there may be an “alternate explanation” and that his death would be further investigated" [Bold added].

I actually did saw the article and was going to point it out to my kid so she is more careful - but that last line there stopped me.  They are not yet sure and I wrote it off in my mind as virus-death consequently.

The linked article was dated March 28 but reference "by Wednesday he was dead" so it could be Wed March 25.  The CDC report I cited was updated March 26.  So as of March 26, CDC has not yet considered that case a virus-caused death.  May be CDC will do so once the "further investigation" is completed.

[maginnovision]

I've been to the ER many times for my asthma but last year was my first time having 911 called. Passed out and woke up in a puddle of sweat that didn't stop growing after I woke up. Couldn't catch my breath, had no energy. I didn't know what to do but couldn't stand up so my wife had to call 911 and I got my first ambulance ride ever. Luckily this last time I was able to make it to the ER myself(well, Wife drove me). Had CT scans, MRIs, X-rays, blood tests, the best pain meds. Luckily my insurance pays for ambulance if you're admitted so total cost was nothing but premiums. I also learned to go to the medical group associated with the hospital by my house. Definitely saves time as all the specialists, the hospital and my GP share records. Unless it's something minor don't waste money on an urgent care. I only visit them for my kids ear infections and similar things.

[not1xor1]

Austrian authorities are facing a class action lawsuit involving as many as 2,500 tourists over their handling of a coronavirus outbreak in the popular Austrian winter sports resort of Ischgl, in Tyrol province.

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/austria-ski-resort-ischgl-coronavirus-intl/index.html

   That statement sounds like it came from one of our US ambulance-chasing scum-bag lawyers.  They're announcing a possible class-action lawsuit involving as many as 2500 plaintiffs but the press release never says what it is that the resort is alleged to have done wrong.

It is my fault. I do not trust so much Italian newspapers (no longer) so made a quick search on the net, but due to haste did not read the article I linked  .
Italian newspapers wrote a while ago that the resort and local government knew about the COVID-19 and hid that to the tourists just to keep the cash flowing.
OK:

Despite an official warning from the Icelandic government on March 4 that a group of its nationals had contracted coronavirus in Ischgl, Austrian authorities allowed ski tourism -- and the partying that goes with it -- to continue for another nine days before fully quarantining the resort on March 13. Bars in Ischgl were closed on March 10.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/24/europe/austria-ski-resort-ischgl-coronavirus-intl/index.html

[not1xor1]

in order to realize how fast this thing gets out of control just take into account what is happening in Germany.
Such low (apparent and provisional) death rate looked so strange that lots of magazines and newspapers wrote that Italy had screwed up the statistics.

Well, in Germany just ten days ago deaths/know-cases rate was 0.38%
yesterday it had got up to 1.1%
this morning we already are at 1.2%
of course just 2 pieces of data are in no way enough to devise a trend, but if one thinks that all this depends on the fact that deaths come 1-2 weeks later after the first symptoms then one realizes that (unfortunately) that bloody rate will go up

now I wonder if those deaths figures in China are real

[maginnovision]

If you search with google "China Coronavirus lies" it'd appear a lot of people question China. That is a pretty biased search term though.

[Someone]

It does appear you introduced buying full face mask respirators retail, yet failed to link them back to the dual use product classifications which separates out those which are controlled. Seems this thread is full of people who just look at things on a superficial level and equate them, when protective equipment is actually extremely nuanced and complicated.

You've gone to surprising lengths to try and ridicule the OP who mentioned hazmat suits, gainsay me and one other poster who's called you out on hyperbole too, and you still haven't actually made your case. You have completely failed to demonstrate that hazmat suits are, in any fashion other then export control, "heavily restricted items", failed to demonstrate that there is any official "control" forbidding their sale in the normal course of business. You just keep doubling down on the same statement without actually providing any proof, yet conveniently exclude any evidence of them being on general industrial sale by just gainsaying it thus:

Proof? Which supplier would want to risk their supply permit by either sharing its details, or selling dual use products freely risking onward supply?

But back on the original point, seems there was at least one example of a shopper who went to the effort and used substantial biological controls.