Covid 19 virus

[maginnovision]

If you're in new york don't forget the mayor telling everyone in early-mid march to just go about their business. Also don't forget that even in January the Chinese health authorities said there was no evidence of human-human transmission. Maybe this affected response times. Remember all those people refusing to take the social distancing seriously spreading it as if it didn't matter. Hindsight is always 20/20 and literally no leaders on the entire planet responded to this as early as we now know they should have. Look forward, not back. It's much more useful. To pretend that anybody else would have done a different job is laughable.

[Bud]

No  good crisis should  go to waste.
Americans jumping on the bandwagon to sue China, no more no less.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/class-action-suit-against-china-coronavirus

[maginnovision]

I'm sure that lawsuit will go really well for everyone.

Edit: 

[nctnico]

My main point is that the 'experts' are now moving the goalposts so just "hide and watch" (as the saying goes) as their arguments will change regarding the use of face masks.

Well, the experts over here say masks are useless (do more harm than good) in the hands of the general public and people should also refrain from making masks themselves. IMHO you have to see this in the light of culture and how well people will adhere to lockdown and distancing rules. If people don't adhere to lockdown / distancing rules then wearing masks may be better than nothing. Also how and where the mask is worn matters. It is still cold in Europe so a mask will get wet in seconds when worn outside. In some places it seems they hand people masks when entering a shop and throw the mask away when exiting the shop.

[paulca]

US Confirmed: 174k
US Population: 327m
Percentage: 0.05%

World Confirmed: 826k
World Population: 7.53b
Percentage: 0.01%

For perspective.  Of course "Confirmed" doesn't = infected. 

Rest assured that the problems in the poorer parts of the world are much bigger. But governments don't pay too much attention to it to prevent mass panic. Recently I saw a video of a couple doing shopping in full hazmat suits in Indonesia. The shop manager got angry claiming that they made people afraid.

I'm hoping the real figure is closer to 1000 infected to 1 Confirmed.  With at least half of those asymptomatic.   

Once they have wide spread anti-body tests, they could be farming you for your blood!  Woohahahahaha!

Yea... I know... tumble weed.   Too soon.

[iMo]

..
When I walk into a grocery store (because I have to buy food sometimes), everyone should be wearing a mask, period. That we have been unable to produce a sufficient amount of PPE given the substantial lead up time is no excuse to debate whether wearing a face mask is helpful, or worse, pontificate extraordinary circumstances that would make it a liability. It is absurd.

Terrorists attacking groceries.. 

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/trending/coronavirus-woman-charged-with-contaminating-35k-worth-food-pennsylvania-grocery-store/GHN6VBJ24NEJPN4WZY5FP7FSAM/

Edit:

A woman charged with terroristic threats for allegedly coughing and spitting on produce, meat and other merchandise at a Pennsylvania grocery store earlier this week was arraigned Thursday in the back of a patrol car to curb the potential threat of spreading the coronavirus.

[Cerebus]

..
When I walk into a grocery store (because I have to buy food sometimes), everyone should be wearing a mask, period. That we have been unable to produce a sufficient amount of PPE given the substantial lead up time is no excuse to debate whether wearing a face mask is helpful, or worse, pontificate extraordinary circumstances that would make it a liability. It is absurd.

Terrorists attacking groceries.. 

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/trending/coronavirus-woman-charged-with-contaminating-35k-worth-food-pennsylvania-grocery-store/GHN6VBJ24NEJPN4WZY5FP7FSAM/

I do wish people would stop devaluing the word "terrorism" by using it in connection with things that are merely criminal/stupid/whatever. There's a big hint in the word, if the action being spoken about wasn't intended to cause capitulation by a government/group of people to some demand by inspiring fear or terror in the general populace then it's not terrorism. For something to be terrorism it has to have a political element and a "causing widespread fear" element, anything else is mere criminality. The phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" could not be applied to this stupid woman.

[maginnovision]

..
When I walk into a grocery store (because I have to buy food sometimes), everyone should be wearing a mask, period. That we have been unable to produce a sufficient amount of PPE given the substantial lead up time is no excuse to debate whether wearing a face mask is helpful, or worse, pontificate extraordinary circumstances that would make it a liability. It is absurd.

Terrorists attacking groceries.. 

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/trending/coronavirus-woman-charged-with-contaminating-35k-worth-food-pennsylvania-grocery-store/GHN6VBJ24NEJPN4WZY5FP7FSAM/

I do wish people would stop devaluing the word "terrorism" by using it in connection with things that are merely criminal/stupid/whatever. There's a big hint in the word, if the action being spoken about wasn't intended to cause capitulation by a government/group of people to some demand by inspiring fear or terror in the general populace then it's not terrorism. For something to be terrorism it has to have a political element and a "causing widespread fear" element, anything else is mere criminality. The phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" could not be applied to this stupid woman.

I'm not sure about the rest of the world but around here it so far seems to be terror type charges for corona people threatening and causing havoc. I don't know if they'll revise the charges if they find something that fits better or they're just trying to make examples out of people. So while I'd agree about overuse of terror(ist/ism) it's more of a legal thing in the US right now as far as these covid cases go.

[PlainName]

For perspective.  Of course "Confirmed" doesn't = infected.

For perspective, "confirmed" doesn't = survived. A number of those infected are going to die.

Actually, for perspective, it turns out that 50% of the intubated infected here in the UK won't make it out of ICU.

[Zero999]

..
When I walk into a grocery store (because I have to buy food sometimes), everyone should be wearing a mask, period. That we have been unable to produce a sufficient amount of PPE given the substantial lead up time is no excuse to debate whether wearing a face mask is helpful, or worse, pontificate extraordinary circumstances that would make it a liability. It is absurd.

Terrorists attacking groceries.. 

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/trending/coronavirus-woman-charged-with-contaminating-35k-worth-food-pennsylvania-grocery-store/GHN6VBJ24NEJPN4WZY5FP7FSAM/

I do wish people would stop devaluing the word "terrorism" by using it in connection with things that are merely criminal/stupid/whatever. There's a big hint in the word, if the action being spoken about wasn't intended to cause capitulation by a government/group of people to some demand by inspiring fear or terror in the general populace then it's not terrorism. For something to be terrorism it has to have a political element and a "causing widespread fear" element, anything else is mere criminality. The phrase "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" could not be applied to this stupid woman.

I'm not sure about the rest of the world but around here it so far seems to be terror type charges for corona people threatening and causing havoc. I don't know if they'll revise the charges if they find something that fits better or they're just trying to make examples out of people. So while I'd agree about overuse of terror(ist/ism) it's more of a legal thing in the US right now as far as these covid cases go.

I suppose it could be argued that people are terrified of Covid-19, so infecting food would it would cause fear and terror. At the very least she should be done for criminal damage, but making people believe they can catch a potentially deadly illness is more serious.

[Cerebus]

I suppose it could be argued that people are terrified of Covid-19, so infecting food would it would cause fear and terror. At the very least she should be done for criminal damage, but making people believe they can catch a potentially deadly illness is more serious.

You would be rightly terrified if I pointed a gun at you and threatened to kill you. Should I ever do so I'll be charged with "Assault with a firearm contrary to the Firearms Act 1968" and get five years for it, I won't be charged with a terrorist offence just because I made you and any onlookers terrified. But I'm not really talking about the tendency of prosecutors (especially US ones) to be as nasty as they can be to the accused by piling up the harshest charges they can twist to fit the case, but the tendency of everybody to misuse the word nowadays.

[AlfBaz]

In other news Mexico is now telling Trump to hurry up with the wall

[iMo]

A woman charged with terroristic threats for allegedly coughing and spitting on produce, meat and other merchandise at a Pennsylvania grocery store..
..She was booked into the Luzerne County Jail with bail set at $50,000.

If it was something really "terroristic" there wouldn't be such low cost bail set, imho..

[maginnovision]

This is sort of an interesting take on the whole coronavirus thing here in the US, just ignore the title.

[Electro Detective]

Well, the experts over here say masks are useless (do more harm than good) in the hands of the general public and people should also refrain from making masks themselves.

IMHO you have to see this in the light of culture and how well people will adhere to lockdown and distancing rules.
If people don't adhere to lockdown / distancing rules then wearing masks may be better than nothing.
Also how and where the mask is worn matters.
It is still cold in Europe so a mask will get wet in seconds when worn outside.
In some places it seems they hand people masks when entering a shop and throw the mask away when exiting the shop.

Corona Dumbassery FAQ:

1.  Those 'good luck' masks for 'better than nothing' painting and dust use, can quickly fog up glasses too,
so idiots will likely be walking or DRIVING a vehicle half blind, and have an accident that may take them out before any deadly sniffle comes along
or worse, causing a fatality event on others, and the idiot lives, to be stupid again.. 


2. Hoarding toilet paper,
future generations will belly laugh      after verifying that this generation were indeed gold standard imbeciles for priority #1 stocking up on such 'vital essentials'.
It may/should become a future military gaming favorite shoot up game  'Toilet Roll Call 11'    'WC Space Invaders'    'Frugal Bowling Alley'  and so on..   
There's probably some great standup comedy about it by now in venues.


3. to Infinity.  TBC... 

[vk6zgo]

One can drive from anywhere to anywhere in Germany in 8 hours or less, not to mention the 7 or 8 Schengen countries that have land borders. Australia only has sea or air borders, and driving times are often measured in days, not hours. Natural isolation, in other words.

True, but people in Australia do travel and it doesn't take much to spark an outbreak in the densely populated areas.

Not anymore, they don't!

Quite apart from closing the National borders, States have closed their own, with strict limits on what traffic is allowed to come through them.
More than that, Western Australia has closed off whole regions within the State, with the same strict controls over travel as with the State & National borders.

Australia has the advantage that the States are pretty much self-sufficient in fresh food supplies, which further reduces the necessity for transport to cross borders.

But I was going for something else, not for absolute numbers: Australia, like Germany, is more likely to exhibit the true fatality rate in reporting, since due to the massive testing they're likely to also detect the mild cases and add them to the statistic early.

[Someone]

Rest assured that the problems in the poorer parts of the world are much bigger. But governments don't pay too much attention to it to prevent mass panic. Recently I saw a video of a couple doing shopping in full hazmat suits in Indonesia. The shop manager got angry claiming that they made people afraid.

Nonsense, hazmat suits are heavily restricted objects/systems. At the extreme end they are single use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarization_Protective_Ensemble
Hazmat suits are generally both watertight and have breathing gas supplied:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazmat_suit
What the media calls "hazmat" is nothing more than common dustproof/spashproof coveralls:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanroom_suit

[Cerebus]

Nonsense, hazmat suits are heavily restricted objects/systems.

That's a faintly ridiculous thing to say, protective clothing and equipment is not the sort of thing that, in any sane country, falls into the category of "heavily restricted objects/systems".

[vk6zgo]

For perspective.  Of course "Confirmed" doesn't = infected.

For perspective, "confirmed" doesn't = survived. A number of those infected are going to die.l

Ultimately, they all will, but some may take 80 or more years to do so!

Actually, for perspective, it turns out that 50% of the intubated infected here in the UK won't make it out of ICU.

[vk6zgo]

This is sort of an interesting take on the whole coronavirus thing here in the US, just ignore the title.

The Republicans are the government---it's on them, no matter how they wriggle.

The Coalition  government in Australia, had a very slow response to the huge fires late last year, & weren't that fast this time, but  compared to the USA, their performance was stellar..

Once they set up a National Cabinet with the States, (of which many were of the other political persuasion),  things started to happen in a hurry.

From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

The argument that they were "distracted by impeachment" doesn't wash, either, as Bill Clinton was able to deal with important issues during his impeachment, & Richard Nixon did a lot of important diplomatic work, including the beginning of normalised relations with China, & the extrication of the USA from Vietnam, whilst under the shadow of possible impeachment.

Those of my generation grew up seeing the USA as the immensely practical "can do" country, who could take on any disaster properly, & prevail.

We saw that start to come apart with Hurricane Katrina, & it is worse with this crisis.
What the hell happened, USA?

[SkyMaster]

Rest assured that the problems in the poorer parts of the world are much bigger. But governments don't pay too much attention to it to prevent mass panic. Recently I saw a video of a couple doing shopping in full hazmat suits in Indonesia. The shop manager got angry claiming that they made people afraid.

Nonsense, hazmat suits are heavily restricted objects/systems. At the extreme end they are single use:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarization_Protective_Ensemble
Hazmat suits are generally both watertight and have breathing gas supplied:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazmat_suit
What the media calls "hazmat" is nothing more than common dustproof/spashproof coveralls:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanroom_suit

A DuPont Tychem 10,000 Level A Suit cost less than $2000 in Canada, a little bit expensive for Halloween, but available.

 

[not1xor1]

Those of my generation grew up seeing the USA as the immensely practical "can do" country, who could take on any disaster properly, & prevail.

We saw that start to come apart with Hurricane Katrina, & it is worse with this crisis.
What the hell happened, USA?

the same hell that happened all over the world
that is what happens when the freedom of the market comes before the freedom and the rights of real people

so global warming, depletion of resources, destruction of the last pieces of wild areas favor the transmission of new viral strains from animals to humans, while globalization makes the spread of those (and lots of crop pests) amazingly fast and effective
at the same time most of public resources, health systems, law enforcing, instruction and so on have been under-funded for years all over the world and so are much less effective even when there is no crisis

I even read that in the US, a couple of days ago, a 17 years old boy died of COVID-19 just  because he could not afford to pay the hospital while yesterday mr Trump promised to help Italy with health devices for a value of 100 millions of USD

that does make little sense given that even the US have a lack of those devices while the contagion in the most stricken parts of Italy is already decreasing and probably Spain might need them more than us now

in any case this thread was started just a bit longer than a month ago
in the meanwhile everything has changed so quickly that even what I wrote myself looks so strange now

BTW even that oddly low provisional death-rate of COVID-19 in Germany is now quickly increasing above 1%
I guess the contagion there is just later and they might have a chance to manage that better than us in Italy

[Someone]

Nonsense, hazmat suits are heavily restricted objects/systems.

That's a faintly ridiculous thing to say, protective clothing and equipment is not the sort of thing that, in any sane country, falls into the category of "heavily restricted objects/systems".

Respirators and suits providing significant protection against chemical and biological agents (actual hazmat suits) are dual use products.
https://dsgl.defence.gov.au/dsglcontent/Pages/1A004.aspx
Not something you can just stroll down to the local shops and buy.

A DuPont Tychem 10,000 Level A Suit cost less than $2000 in Canada, a little bit expensive for Halloween, but available.

A good example but have you tried buying one? Plenty of controlled products are advertised on online stores, but it doesn't mean they will sell to the general public. Also thats only the suit shell, still plenty of other components and procedures required.

Hazmat suit:

Disposable cleanroom suit:


Or is thing going to go the way of drones and industry will need to find some new term to actually differentiate any given industrial coverall from biological/chemical hazard protection?

[BravoV]

I even read that in the US, a couple of days ago, a 17 years old boy died of COVID-19 just  because he could not afford to pay the hospital while yesterday mr Trump promised to help Italy with health devices for a value of 100 millions of USD

that does make little sense given that even the US have a lack of those devices while the contagion in the most stricken parts of Italy is already decreasing and probably Spain might need them more than us now

Yep, quite strange, while the Trump also offered medical supplies for Iran for fighting this virus.   

Meanwhile ... (not seen covered in Western medias or news outlets, at least yet) 

-> Russian Covid-19 aid plane to US: Putin asked Trump if he needed help & he accepted, Kremlin spokesman says

-> WATCH Russian military plane with masks & other Covid-19 medical aid depart for US

[maginnovision]

The Republicans are the government---it's on them, no matter how they wriggle.

The Coalition  government in Australia, had a very slow response to the huge fires late last year, & weren't that fast this time, but  compared to the USA, their performance was stellar..

Once they set up a National Cabinet with the States, (of which many were of the other political persuasion),  things started to happen in a hurry.

From the start, the States pushed for hard restrictions, & some went so far as to unilaterally close State borders, so the Federal govt had to go along with the majority in the body they set up.
I'm really not sure if that would be legally possible in the USA-------It certainly wouldn't be, politically!

From a distance, what we mostly see is the POTUS scoring political points from arguing with State leaders from the other Party about how many ventilators are needed, with Don seemingly "picking a number off the top of his head".

The argument that they were "distracted by impeachment" doesn't wash, either, as Bill Clinton was able to deal with important issues during his impeachment, & Richard Nixon did a lot of important diplomatic work, including the beginning of normalised relations with China, & the extrication of the USA from Vietnam, whilst under the shadow of possible impeachment.

Those of my generation grew up seeing the USA as the immensely practical "can do" country, who could take on any disaster properly, & prevail.

We saw that start to come apart with Hurricane Katrina, & it is worse with this crisis.
What the hell happened, USA?

The timeline is accurate though. And the republicans are NOT the government. They have the white house and the senate but not the house. You need all 3, and some luck, to be able to do whatever you want. They stopped a budget from passing for months, they kept the stimulus bill from passing for days to add more money for special interests. I don't know exactly how australia works but here you need a super majority or some cooperation to do much. That's why Obama liked executive orders so much, it was the way around it and Republicans weren't interested in suing every time one was signed, unlike the Democrats.

His point with impeachment was that it was the only thing the Democrats were dealing with while calling the president a xenophobe for trying to lock our borders down from china. I'm not trying to defend his sort of reasoning behind why he thinks what he thinks, just thought it was an interesting video. Not too many people have been following this thing with as much focus as he has from what I can tell. It also probably helps explain some things going on here for non americans since we're now #1 in infections.