Covid 19 virus

[BravoV]

of course that is also a form of propaganda, but medical staff exhaustion is over since days if not weeks as new cases have been lower and lower for a while
stop looking for evil plots

Since you are using Italian flag, just curious as these are not covered mostly by western news agencies.

Is it true China have sent medical teams and also medical supplies to Italy to help ? Or its just another lie ?

[flyte]

We have been told by doctors here masks worn by the public do nothing unless the wearer has the virus. I went shopping yesterday in a shopping centre, and except for one westerner the only people wearing marks were Chinese. Maybe we have been fed by our government too because they did not want a run on masks.

It's not going to hurt you either and it may prevent the occasional contamination when you stand close to a sneezing person, for example. However, you have to realize that a mask is just that: a mask. If you keep 1m-1.5m distances at all times and no contact, it won't change much. You can easily get contaminated by so many other direct sources: touching people, public or shared things you touch, ATMs, shoes, etc. if somehow contamination makes it to your face, mouth, eyes or nose. So the real risk is there. If masks are available, sure, why not, but don't let it give you a false sense of security. Isolation and hygiene/disinfection are as important, if not more.

The problem is that when the whole population buys masks, the people really at very high risk like the healthcare workers may run out of supplies. This is what happened in Belgium, aside from a political mistake with a masks order, and people were asked to bring all those masks to the hospitals and doctors. I've handed over 10 FFP3 which I've had left for technical purposes, to doctors, and they were very happy with it. But yes, it's sad they have to come and beg the population instead of prepare properly. As one doctor here said, the CoVid-19 is more of a big logistics problem than a medical one, even though pulmonary specialists said what they saw on medical images really worried them more and more. But due to failing logistics, the problem eventually becomes medical.

This is what an Italian doctor has written to media and colleagues. He also made a video on his IC unit, which I will not post here due to the graphic images it contains. I share pain with the Italian people. Italy has suffered more than 600 deaths in the last 24 hrs.

It’s a nightmare. It really feels like being in a war field. Just today 4 patients died in my unit. Patients are continuously transferred to the critical area of the crisis unit or to the intensive care unit.

Dozens of patients arrive from the ER and you put them in the empty beds that you’ve just cleared with the transfers, in the best option. The suspected COVID19 patients are allocated right away with the frankly positive patients because you don't really have the chance, resources or the time to run the test or wait for its result.

The patients that die are put in horrible black bags and brought immediately to the obituary. From the obituary they're sent right away to the crematorium. It all happens under the eyes of the other perfectly awake COVID19 patients who are still breathing with some respiratory support. These patients are forced to witness what might happen to them within few hours because there are no curtains to pull to avoid this psychological torture. COVID19 patients die alone and they see it coming with fierce rawness.

At the end of the shift you have to call the families and give them an update, too often it's a notice of where they might find the ashes of their beloved ones. It's excruciating.

I never thought I'd have to live through something like this. I feel lost, I'm terrified.

I hope this is enough for some to take this extremely seriously. Maybe not all reports make it to the other side of the globe, but this is real.

[Siwastaja]

This will be an interesting walk on the razors edge. If we suppress the spread too much, we'll likely have a second wave in autumn and winter again. I don't think we'll have a vaccine by that time...

I fail to see the problem here. If or when the second wave comes, the society has already learnt how to suppress it. People have had months of time to carefully build their own stock of food to reduce unnecessary shopping. People have already set up connections for remote work. Everything's set. Yes, it's uncomfortable, again, but less than before. Each new wave is easier than the previous ones. And what's best, each wave has its peak regulated not to severely exceed the capacity of ICUs.

There still isn't second wave in China. I fail to see how you could suppress the spread "too much"; fairly theoretical extreme. The opposite, suppressing too little seems to be an actual problem.

[Electro Detective]

Doctors practices and their receptionists EVERYWHERE here have been deluged and bombarded constantly by closet hypochondriac IDIOTS on the phone, and popping up in person without appointments,
thinking their usual ailments may have mutated into corona symptoms,
and DEMAND miracles, forcing overstressed staff to resort to sweet talk to get them out the door ASAP,
and back home in front of their satellite pumped TVs again, freaking out at the 24/7 internationale scare tactic news reports    

I'll bet these losers and their relatives are the majority of dunny paper hoarders too 

Selfish idiots like that can't leave this Earth soon enough.. 

[nctnico]

This will be an interesting walk on the razors edge. If we suppress the spread too much, we'll likely have a second wave in autumn and winter again. I don't think we'll have a vaccine by that time...

I fail to see the problem here. If or when the second wave comes, the society has already learnt how to suppress it. People have had months of time to carefully build their own stock of food to reduce unnecessary shopping. People have already set up connections for remote work. Everything's set. Yes, it's uncomfortable, again, but less than before. Each new wave is easier than the previous ones. And what's best, each wave has its peak regulated not to severely exceed the capacity of ICUs.

There still isn't second wave in China. I fail to see how you could suppress the spread "too much"; fairly theoretical extreme. The opposite, suppressing too little seems to be an actual problem.

I think we have to watch what happens in China and Korea (I trust the numbers from the latter most) to see what happens to the number of deaths. It seems Korea is moving towards a flattened curve but it will take another week before you can reach a solid conclusion.

[Kilrah]

Great video from Kurzgesagt as usual:

[Siwastaja]

First death in Finland (as of yesterday).

The attachment shows new identified infections (i.e., delta to the previous day). Guess when the limitations in testing started .

[GlennSprigg]

An Australian woman stuck in Italy, made this most apt comment!!!...
(Regarding the elderly in nursing homes etc)

Our elderly parents & grandparents went to war overseas in trenches, fighting for us.
All 'WE' have to do at the moment, is stay with our arses on the Lounge, to protect them!!

[drussell]

I fail to see the problem here. If or when the second wave comes, the society has already learnt how to suppress it. People have had months of time to carefully build their own stock of food to reduce unnecessary shopping. People have already set up connections for remote work. Everything's set. Yes, it's uncomfortable, again, but less than before. Each new wave is easier than the previous ones. And what's best, each wave has its peak regulated not to severely exceed the capacity of ICUs.

Except for follow-on effects, like everyone else that has jobs that you can't "do from home" is screwed again (or still) with many businesses simply unable to continue and closing permanently.  The carnage left in it's wake will be far, far worse than the virus itself causes health-wise.

There still isn't second wave in China. I fail to see how you could suppress the spread "too much"; fairly theoretical extreme. The opposite, suppressing too little seems to be an actual problem.

Indeed.

The reason China has the transmission down to 0 is they haven't really even started lifting most restrictions.  Most people in the most highly affected areas are still under total lockdown.

[drussell]

The problem is that when the whole population buys masks, the people really at very high risk like the healthcare workers may run out of supplies.

This!

I'm quite certain that if there were actually an abundant supply of masks, most public health officials would be advising that everyone wear one.  This is not so much for the wearer to prevent becoming infected, rather to help curtail the spread from those that may not even know they're spreading it.

Public health officials here are correct, in that we really all should be acting like we each already have the virus when interacting with others to help limit the spread from those without obvious symptoms.

I found it very striking that one of the first things that the Dr. from the Chinese Red Cross team that is in Italy now to help give guidance to the government said in his statement was basically, "You're doing this all wrong!  You're not restricting people nearly enough!  Your mass transit is still running!  Why is everyone not wearing masks?!"

Edit: Found the actual quote:

Chinese Red Cross Vice President Sun Shuopeng warned Italians that they were risking lives by not adhering to the novel coronavirus lockdown. He made the comments after visiting Milan in the hardest-hit region of Italy, which has recorded 41,035 cases and 3,405 deaths. “Here in Milan, the hardest-hit area by COVID-19, the lockdown measures are very lax,” the veteran of the Wuhan epidemic fight said Thursday. “I can see public transport is still running, people are still moving around, having gatherings in hotels and they are not wearing masks.” Sun warned that the resistance to the lockdown will prove deadly. “I don’t know what people here are thinking. We really have to stop our usual economic activities and our usual human interactions. We have to stay at home and make every effort to save lives. It is worth putting every cost we have into saving lives.”

[Cerebus]

The reason China has the transmission down to 0 is they haven't really even started lifting most restrictions.  Most people in the most highly affected areas are still under total lockdown.

I think, from blueskull's comments passim, that they aren't now under "total lockdown" but people's movements are still being tightly controlled and monitored. Going to work is happening where it can, but you aren't being allowed to do whatever the Chinese equivalent of "having a swift half after work^*" is.

^*For those not au fait with British drinking culture, a quick drink after work with one's colleagues which typically runs to more than the "half" pint of beer implied in the phrase but isn't intended to run to a "proper session".

[Zero999]

One intriguing point is the fact children seem not to be affected by this virus - or so lightly that it goes unnoticed.

And guys die 4 times more likely to it compared to women based on Italian data!
Smoking might explain part of it.

Some doctor said it might be related to that missing leg in the XY chromosomes.

that mainly affects life expectancy... it is also reversed in species where sex is determined by chromosomes difference in females

apart from smoke I read some think better survival rates depend on estrogen hormones

I think the higher smoking rate in Chinese men was probably most likely to blame for the higher death rate in males. I don't have any definite statistics but I believe the sex ratio of smokers in my age group in the UK is opposite: more females, than male smokers. If I cast my mind back to when I was 15, more of the girls at school smoked, than the boys. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the UK.

[SiliconWizard]

One intriguing point is the fact children seem not to be affected by this virus - or so lightly that it goes unnoticed.

They haven't had years of FEAR MONGERING pumped into them yet by TV, news, movies, poor education, 'end of the world' (again..?) gossip/rumors, generic ignorance etc

Give them time, they'll get there just like we did,

and like us they can choose whether to be civil and exercise concern and courtesy during a panic show,

or become low life 'look after #1' attitude dunny paper hoarders,
that only think about their own family's pampered rear ends
and kcuf everyone else

That's cute, but the point was a serious one. What's the reason?

Thinking of that, we already know that some viral diseases that are typically caught by kids can be a lot more dangerous when caught by adults, like chickenpox. Interestingly, chichenpox is also an airborne disease.

[not1xor1]

the Czech Republic has seized thousands of masks sent from China to Italy

"The official version with the first releases said at the beginning that it dealt with masks and respirators confiscated, talking about material stolen from Czech companies by unscrupulous criminals who wanted to sell them at higher cost on the international market, challenging the strict limits on medical exports imposed in Czechia as elsewhere by the emergency ". But then there appeared photos and videos shown by Cervinka and the democratic and pro-European NGOs, who made it clear the bad truth. On board of police trucks there were boxes with the Chinese and Italian flags, and written in Italian and Mandarin in which the Beijing authorities launched greetings, encouragement and desire for help to Italy.

they say: true friends are seen in times of need... it looks like that is true also for foes
it looks like we should kick a few countries off EU

EDIT
as imo made us notice it just was a misunderstanding

[not1xor1]

the Decathlon diving mask turns into a respirator

[nctnico]

Buses are modern and the passengers all have high end phones, taking photos of the benign scenery. New China TV is owned by the notorious government news agency Xinhua. The video is propaganda .

The first casualty of war is the truth.

Probably. One of my thoughts is: why would they build new hospitals in China when they could just as easely have emptied a hotel or office building? If you look at the construction videos you notice that the prefab buildings they erected are just office buildings. Something is not right.

Having been involved in building and electrical work in hospitals may years ago I know that a lot of specification goes on that you wouldn't see in commercial premises. Are surfaces easily sterilized, can electrical outlets be sterilized. Anything that can trap dust is a no no - there are brackets for electrical conduit know in the trade as 'hospital brackets' that stand proud enough from surfaces that the conduit can be cleaned all around. And so on, and so on.

For a permanent hospital those are obvious requirements. In case of emergency anything goes. I just read some news articles that hotels and dorm rooms are being converted into temporary hospitals. In the Netherlands they moved the maternity department of a hospital to a hotel.

[Siwastaja]

Probably. One of my thoughts is: why would they build new hospitals in China when they could just as easely have emptied a hotel or office building? If you look at the construction videos you notice that the prefab buildings they erected are just office buildings. Something is not right.

Having been involved in building and electrical work in hospitals may years ago I know that a lot of specification goes on that you wouldn't see in commercial premises. Are surfaces easily sterilized, can electrical outlets be sterilized. Anything that can trap dust is a no no - there are brackets for electrical conduit know in the trade as 'hospital brackets' that stand proud enough from surfaces that the conduit can be cleaned all around. And so on, and so on.

For a permanent hospital those are obvious requirements. In case of emergency anything goes. I just read some news articles that hotels and dorm rooms are being converted into temporary hospitals. In the Netherlands they moved the maternity department of a hospital to a hotel.

If I understood correctly, the idea was that the Chinese predicted when the peak demand in intensive care is going to be, and being prepared early, they could build something which is inbetween a really proper hospital, and a makeshift temporary hospital converted from something else. The details matter, and you can get many details right (even if not all) when you have a week to design and another to build. If you are super efficient, at least.

[SiliconWizard]

Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

What makes the West correct?

As I said in another post, this is indeed bullshit, mainly motivated by the fact we just don't have enough masks for everyone. The only true fact is that basic surgical masks are ineffective to protect oneself, and only effective to protect others. Which is already better than nothing if you have to get out, at least to protect others just in case (let's remind everyone that you may carry the virus with absolutely no symptom, which is the worst case as no one can guess)... But FFP2 masks are known to be effective (at least for 3 to 4 hours.)

That was what was also said in France until a couple days ago where officials were forced to admit that there was a very severe shortage of masks (due to a series of past decisions) and that we would do anything we can from now on to correct the situation. I appreciate they admitted it.

[mzzj]

I think the higher smoking rate in Chinese men was probably most likely to blame for the higher death rate in males. I don't have any definite statistics but I believe the sex ratio of smokers in my age group in the UK is opposite: more females, than male smokers. If I cast my mind back to when I was 15, more of the girls at school smoked, than the boys. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the UK.

Read somewhere that so far the muslim population in UK has been hit hardest. Like 10x infections  or something.
Extended families with grandparents living under the same roof and eating habits like sharing the same plate of food among family members.

[vodka]

the Czech Republic has seized thousands of masks sent from China to Italy

"The official version with the first releases said at the beginning that it dealt with masks and respirators confiscated, talking about material stolen from Czech companies by unscrupulous criminals who wanted to sell them at higher cost on the international market, challenging the strict limits on medical exports imposed in Czechia as elsewhere by the emergency ". But then there appeared photos and videos shown by Cervinka and the democratic and pro-European NGOs, who made it clear the bad truth. On board of police trucks there were boxes with the Chinese and Italian flags, and written in Italian and Mandarin in which the Beijing authorities launched greetings, encouragement and desire for help to Italy.

they say: true friends are seen in times of need... it looks like that is true also for foes
it looks like we should kick a few countries off EU

If the Czeck goverment turn themselves in "Red Gorilla" with the motto "Expropiese",worse for them. An advise,here, the "Front Popular goverment" are doing confiscations the masks and other medical items. Sellers and distribuitors don't want import any  medical item to Spain by fearing to confiscation.

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.elconfidencial.com%2Fmundo%2Feuropa%2F2020-03-18%2Fmascarillas-coronavirus-covid-19-china-espana_2503191%2F

https://translate.google.es/translate?hl=es&sl=es&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.diaridetarragona.com%2Feconomia%2FSuspenden-un-pedido-de-mascarillas-en-Alcover-a-causa-de-las-incautaciones-20200320-0002.html

"The capital is like a kid, if you scare him, this run away and hide himself"

[iMo]

the Czech Republic has seized thousands of masks sent from China to Italy

"The official version with the first releases said at the beginning that it dealt with masks and respirators confiscated, talking about material stolen from Czech companies by unscrupulous criminals who wanted to sell them at higher cost on the international market, challenging the strict limits on medical exports imposed in Czechia as elsewhere by the emergency ". But then there appeared photos and videos shown by Cervinka and the democratic and pro-European NGOs, who made it clear the bad truth. On board of police trucks there were boxes with the Chinese and Italian flags, and written in Italian and Mandarin in which the Beijing authorities launched greetings, encouragement and desire for help to Italy.

they say: true friends are seen in times of need... it looks like that is true also for foes
it looks like we should kick a few countries off EU

Few days back a seller offered masks to CZ Ministry of Health for an unusually high price, stocked in CZ. Ministry declined and informed police.

Police seized the complete stock of 680k masks according to the current "CZ law in state of emergency" and the Ministry paid the seller the usual price.

Police investigated the case and found out 101k masks from that stock were a donation from the Red Cross of Qingtian City of China's Zhejiang province to Chinese expatriates in Italy.

CZ and Zhejiang province is organizing the replacement.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/2020-03/21/content_75842056.htm

Edit: typos

[Cerebus]

I think the higher smoking rate in Chinese men was probably most likely to blame for the higher death rate in males. I don't have any definite statistics but I believe the sex ratio of smokers in my age group in the UK is opposite: more females, than male smokers. If I cast my mind back to when I was 15, more of the girls at school smoked, than the boys. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the UK.

Read somewhere that so far the muslim population in UK has been hit hardest. Like 10x infections  or something.
Extended families with grandparents living under the same roof and eating habits like sharing the same plate of food among family members.

Likely to be bullshit propaganda put out by some nut-job who wants to cast Muslims in a bad light.

I live in one of, if not the, the most Muslim boroughs in the country (32% of population) and there are, as of now, 42 officially confirmed cases (irrespective of religion etc. etc) out of 350,000 people in the borough (12/100,000), a comparable rate to other London boroughs. Our (less densely populated) neighbour Essex  has 2.92 cases/100,000 and 0.3% Muslims, the London borough of Kensington and Chelsea (richest, and probably the 'whitest' London borough - over 70% white) 42.2 cases/100,000. Based on that, it's clearly rich white folks who are the hotbed of disease.

[daqq]

Something not right here. Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

There is some conflicting information on this, but most sources I have read seem to agree that a  mask can help problematic stuff both ways.

While it's not complete protection, it's still better than nothing. Also, masks need not be of the highest type to help. See:

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/

[mzzj]

I think the higher smoking rate in Chinese men was probably most likely to blame for the higher death rate in males. I don't have any definite statistics but I believe the sex ratio of smokers in my age group in the UK is opposite: more females, than male smokers. If I cast my mind back to when I was 15, more of the girls at school smoked, than the boys. It will be interesting to see how it plays out in the UK.

Read somewhere that so far the muslim population in UK has been hit hardest. Like 10x infections  or something.
Extended families with grandparents living under the same roof and eating habits like sharing the same plate of food among family members.

Likely to be bullshit propaganda put out by some nut-job who wants to cast Muslims in a bad light.

I live in one of, if not the, the most Muslim boroughs in the country (32% of population) and there are, as of now, 42 officially confirmed cases (irrespective of religion etc. etc) out of 350,000 people in the borough (12/100,000), a comparable rate to other London boroughs. Our (less densely populated) neighbour Essex  has 2.92 cases/100,000 and 0.3% Muslims, the London borough of Kensington and Chelsea (richest, and probably the 'whitest' London borough - over 70% white) 42.2 cases/100,000. Based on that, it's clearly rich white folks who are the hotbed of disease.

Pretty sure I saw percents also mentioned somewhere but this is a concern even mids muslims themself, not just some white-chistian-nutjob
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-muslim-mosque-closure-prayer-nhs-a9411936.html

edit: https://twitter.com/HarasRafiq/status/1240749413745778693

(UK mortality numbers are still so low that it doesn't necessarily mean much yet, you can get that percent from single unlucky mosque. )

[vodka]

Western doctors are saying masks do nothing unless you are already infected. But these Chinese doctors all are wearing masks, most of them cheapo surgical masks, not P95's.

What makes the West correct?

To make like Spiriman: Jesus Candel.  When the threat was far, laught and  without giving importance because the covid is seemd to the "cold" (no flu) . When the plague arrived and Spiriman is in the 1st frontline.
The balls put him by tie. And he began to scream,cry,gasp by youtube and TV about of dangerousnes of the covid. Furthermore, he had info about their italian mates.

Here,this is the video  of the Joan Planas that teardown to hypocrit of Jesus Candel.

https://youtu.be/UxlwLaGHxQE