Are Cinemas_Theaters still Alive in your Area?

[Zero999]

I think you're underestimating the size of the "minority" based on the bubble you hang out with - you will tend to hang out with people who sympathise with your views - otherwise they would be less likely to be in your bubble. My sister is pretty into the "far left" of things (I consider myself left of centre but I've been told believing capitalism is a good thing puts me on the right wing so who knows.)  She's got a fairly large bubble of friends on social networks and in person and when they get talking about things it's clear a lot of people are more left wing than I thought I was.

That's what I used to think, but as per my previous comment, seeing the comments to news videos (BBC, Channel Four ITV, not Fox GBNews) has made me reconsider. It's possible people who post YouTube comments tend to be right-wing, but I don't see why that would be the case.

I woudn't say it's even accurate to say everything has shifed leftwards. Econmically, the media has shifted right, most likely down to the failure of planned ecconomies, where ever they've been tried. Socially speaking, there's been a definite leftward trend, which is apparent in cinima and is very much out of step with the public. If that wasn't the case, then films pushing socially progressive ideas wouldn't have been such huges flops.

I'm sure a huge amount of the comments on news websites, YouTube et al are bots - on both sides of the spectrum.  For the few that aren't bots, you have to realise that the people who take time to comment on things are the most 'outraged'.  The news websites also moderate comments on there, and moderators may well remove comments that don't align with the website's bias.  The centre which just doesn't really care (and for whom politicians target because they tend to swing one way or another) isn't the kind to debate politics online so you'll rarely hear from them; and you're unlikely to see a Just Stop Oil supporter posting on the Daily Mail's website.

Then one would think there would be an equal number of outraged people from both sides of the political spectrum. I doubt it's moderation, since it's YouTube and the comments are mostly arguing against the channel's perspective. It doesn't matter whether the video is complaining about, what they call a far-right party, or praising a unversity's mission to increase diversity in STEM subjects, the comments tend to reflect more right-wing views. It's not me, because I'm a little right of centre. I also know I've drifted further right in many areas, because I dissagree with many of my old posts and comments, as well as voting differently.

I don't know what the solution is to this really, if you want to get as little bias as possible in understanding what people think then take a look at surveys that cover the whole political spectrum, and websites that aggregate this and take predicting things accurately as part of their reputation.  For instance, for whatever you think of Nate Silver, his 538 polls model has usually been pretty close to being on the money for US election results (I believe they called the most recent senate election within a few percent, they predicted Biden and Trump's wins respectively, as well as Obama's 2012 run, with decent accuracy.)

It's easier to predict election results than to gauge public opinion on specific issues, such Brexit, which they failed to predict.

I don't know what the solution is to this really,

Read more than one source of news - but choose sources that aren't so far from your own viewpoint that they'll just make you angry.

I get my Left leaning news from the BBC, and my Right leaning news from the Telegraph.

Some things just get me angry, regardless of how they are reported. The Telegaph might criticise something which I see as bad and I still feel anger, just the same as I would if I read the Guardian's positive take on it.

[tom66]

It's easier to predict election results than to gauge public opinion on specific issues, such Brexit, which they failed to predict.

Dunno about "failed to predict".  Obviously the Cameron ministry thought they'd get away with it and kill off UKIP in the process with a solid Remain win, but pretty quickly the polling around the issue showed it was highly divisive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#/media/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg

In the end, it was a swing of a few percent - 48% to 52%.  Well within margin of error for the polls and you could see Leave gaining traction on the day towards the referendum as the big faces behind Leave pushed hard.  Remain floundered due to lack of cohesive vision and divisiveness in the major lefty party Labour, and the Tories were also divided quite badly.  This made it easier for Leave to gain the support of the electorate.   

Ironically, Farage said that if it went "Leave 48% and Remain 52%" it would be grounds for a second referendum, and then opposed one when it went near-exactly the other way in his favour (52% Leave 48% Remain).   

It's really going great, I try not to think about how stupid the whole situation has been.  Though admittedly, it could have gone worse - we've ended up with an outcome which hasn't been catastrophic, but it's hard to see any great benefits either.

Anyway, this is about cinemas, not so much politics.  Around here, they're still quite packed, and if it was truly as bad as some have claimed, there'd be no one there and  they'd be going out of business.  Some chains are struggling, but usually due to high debt racked up over COVID, rather than any lack of business (which is why Cineworld UK is trying to restructure rather than sell off.)

[coppice]

It's easier to predict election results than to gauge public opinion on specific issues, such Brexit, which they failed to predict.

I don't think its that hard to predict any of these things (unless they are actually super close), but you need to step outside your echo chamber to do it. A lot of people find that very hard to do, especially as societies are becoming more polarised.

[jonovid]

I suspect the future of movies is digital remastering of more then 30 Years of classics.
the same movie with the same story but now in 4K resolution with 4 channel sound, thanks to AI digital remastering.
as for all new movies,  its do or die for hollywood, gave the public that they want, gave the public Entertainment! Not political nonsense.

the strikes are like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  the AI genie is out of the bottle.

[mengfei]

Will AI save or destroy the Movie industry?
They say chatgpt5 would have feelings or emotion like humans & might have the senses we have, so it could create a story line that's both touching & full of emotions that can bring our inner thoughts back to life that was hidden somewhere in the folders of our brain add to that the visuals that would stimulate our outer brain.

With such tech, who needs Hollywood?

[SiliconWizard]

Who needs humans?

Who needs the universe?

Who is who?

[coppice]

the strikes are like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  the AI genie is out of the bottle.

Many strikes are by workers who no longer have any power, thrashing around in the dying embers of their industry.

[Zero999]

It's easier to predict election results than to gauge public opinion on specific issues, such Brexit, which they failed to predict.

Dunno about "failed to predict".  Obviously the Cameron ministry thought they'd get away with it and kill off UKIP in the process with a solid Remain win, but pretty quickly the polling around the issue showed it was highly divisive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum#/media/File:UK_EU_referendum_polling.svg

In the end, it was a swing of a few percent - 48% to 52%.  Well within margin of error for the polls and you could see Leave gaining traction on the day towards the referendum as the big faces behind Leave pushed hard.  Remain floundered due to lack of cohesive vision and divisiveness in the major lefty party Labour, and the Tories were also divided quite badly.  This made it easier for Leave to gain the support of the electorate.   

Ironically, Farage said that if it went "Leave 48% and Remain 52%" it would be grounds for a second referendum, and then opposed one when it went near-exactly the other way in his favour (52% Leave 48% Remain).   

The losing side will always want a second referendum. Heck, I was even in favour of it at the start, until I realised it was a silly idea.

It's really going great, I try not to think about how stupid the whole situation has been.  Though admittedly, it could have gone worse - we've ended up with an outcome which hasn't been catastrophic, but it's hard to see any great benefits either.

Our current problems are down to other factors, but it's off-topic and against the rules.

Anyway, this is about cinemas, not so much politics.  Around here, they're still quite packed, and if it was truly as bad as some have claimed, there'd be no one there and  they'd be going out of business.  Some chains are struggling, but usually due to high debt racked up over COVID, rather than any lack of business (which is why Cineworld UK is trying to restructure rather than sell off.)

It is political. Holywood have made it so, by pushing their political views on everyone. This appears to be a problem with the mainstream media in many countries. I only brought up Brexit, not to discuss it, but because it highlights the difference between the views of the mainstream media and general public.

I don't know how cinemas are doing where I live. It's just the fact that profits are down for Holywood. It might not have much to do with cinema theatres themselves, because there are other sources of revenue.

It's easier to predict election results than to gauge public opinion on specific issues, such Brexit, which they failed to predict.

I don't think its that hard to predict any of these things (unless they are actually super close), but you need to step outside your echo chamber to do it. A lot of people find that very hard to do, especially as societies are becoming more polarised.

I do step out of my echo chamber, hence why I read the Guardian and Sun, not just the Telegraph and Daily Mail. It's just my observation the comments on YouTube and MSN, tend to be a bit right-leaning. Again, I see this as a sign of the gulf between the MSM and ordinary person.

[tom66]

Anyway, this is about cinemas, not so much politics.  Around here, they're still quite packed, and if it was truly as bad as some have claimed, there'd be no one there and  they'd be going out of business.  Some chains are struggling, but usually due to high debt racked up over COVID, rather than any lack of business (which is why Cineworld UK is trying to restructure rather than sell off.)

It is political. Holywood have made it so, by pushing their political views on everyone. This appears to be a problem with the mainstream media in many countries. I only brought up Brexit, not to discuss it, but because it highlights the difference between the views of the mainstream media and general public.

I don't know how cinemas are doing where I live. It's just the fact that profits are down for Holywood. It might not have much to do with cinema theatres themselves, because there are other sources of revenue.

Your assessment is that people aren't going to cinemas as much because of politics, but the left-wing politics of Hollywood has been a thing for decades and box office sales, at least pre-pandemic, were never so high.   So this isn't borne out in the data.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/271856/global-box-office-revenue/

Avatar 2 broke $2.3 billion at the box office.  For a sequel to an epic, that's bloody amazing.  It's full of the stuff you love to hate, the series is based on the idea of endangered peoples and animals being extinguished by careless and malicious humans, if that's not political I don't know what is.  I personally went to see it.  Plot was meh, but the visuals were absolutely outstanding.

We'll need to wait till the end of 2023, as that is the first year where there were virtually no restrictions on any social activity in any country, and people felt generally comfortable in busy auditoriums again, to see for sure.  But projections suggest 2023 based on present results will have higher takings than 2019.

[coppice]

Avatar 2 broke $2.3 billion at the box office.  For a sequel to an epic, that's bloody amazing.

Sequels to popular movies almost always make considerably more than the original, even when the sequel is widely considered to suck.

[tom66]

Avatar 2 broke $2.3 billion at the box office.  For a sequel to an epic, that's bloody amazing.

Sequels to popular movies almost always make considerably more than the original, even when the sequel is widely considered to suck.

$2.3 billion was less than the original (that took in $2.9 billion), but it had a budget of $450 million.  Even if you assume the marketing cost another $1 billion (apparently the marketing budget for big films can often be as much as the original budget if not more) they have a licence to print money on a film like that.  I am sure Cameron will be able to afford a few more dives to the Titanic after his revenue cheque comes in... 

Point is, I don't think Hollywood is struggling.  Not yet.

[Zero999]

Anyway, this is about cinemas, not so much politics.  Around here, they're still quite packed, and if it was truly as bad as some have claimed, there'd be no one there and  they'd be going out of business.  Some chains are struggling, but usually due to high debt racked up over COVID, rather than any lack of business (which is why Cineworld UK is trying to restructure rather than sell off.)

It is political. Holywood have made it so, by pushing their political views on everyone. This appears to be a problem with the mainstream media in many countries. I only brought up Brexit, not to discuss it, but because it highlights the difference between the views of the mainstream media and general public.

I don't know how cinemas are doing where I live. It's just the fact that profits are down for Holywood. It might not have much to do with cinema theatres themselves, because there are other sources of revenue.

Your assessment is that people aren't going to cinemas as much because of politics, but the left-wing politics of Hollywood has been a thing for decades and box office sales, at least pre-pandemic, were never so high.   So this isn't borne out in the data.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/271856/global-box-office-revenue/

The pandemic has essentially been over for a year now, yet according to that graph, numbers don't appear to have recovered. It's possible it's a long term trend and nothing to do with politics, as people have moved on to other ways of watching films such as streaming. On the other hand, the political bias has only become blatant since the pandemic.

Avatar 2 broke $2.3 billion at the box office.  For a sequel to an epic, that's bloody amazing.  It's full of the stuff you love to hate, the series is based on the idea of endangered peoples and animals being extinguished by careless and malicious humans, if that's not political I don't know what is.  I personally went to see it.  Plot was meh, but the visuals were absolutely outstanding.

It's not politics which is a killer but the progressive variety. The Little Mermaid was a classic example.

I won't see that because it's not the kind of film which will interest me. I find visuals boring, without a decent story. One of the reasons why I don't watch films much is because many of them are needlessly padded with boring action scenes and CGI.

We'll need to wait till the end of 2023, as that is the first year where there were virtually no restrictions on any social activity in any country, and people felt generally comfortable in busy auditoriums again, to see for sure.  But projections suggest 2023 based on present results will have higher takings than 2019.

Well takings will need to be higher to match inflation, which has been very high recently. We'll see. Hopefully they'll learn. I think it's also possible conservatives complaining about wokeness might even have the reverse effect. Barbie is apparently doing better in Republican states, so perhaps they're hate watching it.

[tom66]

The pandemic has essentially been over for a year now, yet according to that graph, numbers don't appear to have recovered. It's possible it's a long term trend and nothing to do with politics, as people have moved on to other ways of watching films such as streaming. On the other hand, the political bias has only become blatant since the pandemic.

The UK still had pandemic restrictions as of Dec 2021, many of these drifted into 2022.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/2022-12/timeline-coronavirus-lockdown-december-2021.pdf

Rightly so studios did not want to release in 2022 until they were comfortable they would have good audiences.  Look at what happened to TENET in Sep 2020.  You still had to wear a mask then in UK cinemas.  So attendance was low.

It wasn't until mid May 2022 that all restrictions on socialisation were lifted in the UK, though advice still persisted for some time thereafter.  We lived through over two years of pandemic restrictions.  (I'm definitely not a fan of ever doing that ever again, but, politics.)

Many other European countries had restrictions too.  When I visited Barcelona in April 2022, you had to wear a mask on public transport, in cafes/bars/restaurants (except when eating) and other places.  I don't recall if cinemas were restricted, but it wouldn't surprise me if people were nervous or were "I don't want to go if I have to wear a mask" (can't blame them!)

[daqq]

but the left-wing politics of Hollywood has been a thing for decades and box office sales, at least pre-pandemic, were never so high.

Come now, it's the difference between having a small message in a decent story (Star-Trek for most of its existence) and bashing the audience over the head with a crude club made out of pandering while screaming political slogans, riding a barely coherent story that's pretending to be the continuation of a beloved IP. There was a time when a new Marvel movie was an exciting feature and there was a time when I'd have greeted a new Star Wars project with joy and excitement. Now I just groan.

If you need further proof of the decline of the art of story telling in Hollywood, look at Velma, She-Hulk, the awful remakes who's biggest marketing promotion is "Behold our diverse cast and revised message!" instead of "Recapturing the magic", the newer Star Trek stuff, Rings of Power, or any number of other series or movies spewed forth.

[Zero999]

but the left-wing politics of Hollywood has been a thing for decades and box office sales, at least pre-pandemic, were never so high.

Come now, it's the difference between having a small message in a decent story (Star-Trek for most of its existence) and bashing the audience over the head with a crude club made out of pandering while screaming political slogans, riding a barely coherent story that's pretending to be the continuation of a beloved IP. There was a time when a new Marvel movie was an exciting feature and there was a time when I'd have greeted a new Star Wars project with joy and excitement. Now I just groan.

If you need further proof of the decline of the art of story telling in Hollywood, look at Velma, She-Hulk, the awful remakes who's biggest marketing promotion is "Behold our diverse cast and revised message!" instead of "Recapturing the magic", the newer Star Trek stuff, Rings of Power, or any number of other series or movies spewed forth.

It's when they do silly things such as change the main character from a white man to a black woman, or make them gay, which has annoyed a lot of people, then they claim racism, misogyny, homophobia etc. when they get negative comments and it flops. Most people aren't bigoted. There have been successful films with non-white and non-straight main characters, but they were new and original, not a classic with the story changed to fit a progressive agenda and the actors chosen to tick boxes.

[tom66]

It's when they do silly things such as change the main character from a white man to a black woman, or make them gay, which has annoyed a lot of people, then they claim racism, misogyny, homophobia etc. when they get negative comments and it flops. Most people aren't bigoted. There have been successful films with non-white and non-straight main characters, but they were new and original, not a classic with the story changed to fit a progressive agenda and the actors chosen to tick boxes.

Agreed, those are shit.  For instance, the Ghostbusters film with all-female cast was critically panned, because it was badly written and leaned very heavily on the female cast being "unique" rather than having a good story.

But this is bad storytelling, and I don't agree that it is all that common.  Is it more common? It seems so, I wouldn't say no... but it's certainly far from normal to have a plot that's just been turned around to fit diverse characters in it and flopped as a result.  Hollywood isn't stupid and they want to make money from films (Ghostbusters 2016 lost money).   

I'd say the BBC are currently experimenting with a new Doctor in Dr Who, they tried Jodie Foster which I thought was a bit of a damp squib and unfortunately a letdown for a female Doctor.  She had terrible scripts, she's historically been a very good actor so it could have worked if the writing and direction was done properly.  I'm looking forward to seeing how Ncuti Gatwa plays the 15th, I will approach it with an open mind, as they have Russell T Davies back to run the show and he knows how to write a good Who.

For a film with a diverse cast that was very well received look at Black Panther, I think there are two main white characters in the whole film, Martin Freeman being one of them.  The sequel was okay too but not as good as the original, the villain was boring.

[coppice]

For instance, the Ghostbusters film with all-female cast was critically panned, because it was badly written and leaned very heavily on the female cast being "unique" rather than having a good story.

But this is bad storytelling, and I don't agree that it is all that common.  Is it more common? It seems so, I wouldn't say no... but it's certainly far from normal to have a plot that's just been turned around to fit diverse characters in it and flopped as a result.  Hollywood isn't stupid and they want to make money from films (Ghostbusters 2016 lost money).

If that were true the last 7 years wouldn't have been filled with Ghostbuster 2016 remakes, given various names but with the same basic premise, that a good script is unnecessary. The current writers strike was a real surprise. They still have script writers for Hollywood movies?

[mengfei]

one reason why others avoid the Cinema's

Life in plastic. It’s fantastic. ready the oppenhammer
https://www.ladbible.com/entertainment/film/fight-at-barbie-movie-835924-20230725

[Zero999]

I'd say the BBC are currently experimenting with a new Doctor in Dr Who, they tried Jodie Foster which I thought was a bit of a damp squib and unfortunately a letdown for a female Doctor.  She had terrible scripts, she's historically been a very good actor so it could have worked if the writing and direction was done properly.  I'm looking forward to seeing how Ncuti Gatwa plays the 15th, I will approach it with an open mind, as they have Russell T Davies back to run the show and he knows how to write a good Who.

Of they could have just kept Dr Who the same.

I don't watch TV now, as I don't have a licence, but I know the BBC have had programmes with a lead black actor (Luther) and a main female character (Silent Witness), which were both quite popular.

For a film with a diverse cast that was very well received look at Black Panther, I think there are two main white characters in the whole film, Martin Freeman being one of them.  The sequel was okay too but not as good as the original, the villain was boring.

If they're mostly black, then that's not very diverse.

[tom66]

Of they could have just kept Dr Who the same.

I don't watch TV now, as I don't have a licence, but I know the BBC have had programmes with a lead black actor (Luther) and a main female character (Silent Witness), which were both quite popular.

The Doctor frequently regenerates, it's a role that actors don't seem to want to do for long for whatever reason,  Matt Smith was reportedly bored of it so they cast a new actor.  One of the benefits of a sci-fi show where you can plot-wave you way out of changing what the main actor looks like.  There was no keeping it the same, each actor plays the Doctor differently (it's literally canon in the show that each Doctor has its own character and behaviour even if they "the same" individual) and it's up to the screenwriter to adapt the script to suit.

If they're mostly black, then that's not very diverse.

Well, now you're just playing with words.  There aren't many films like it where almost all of the actors are black, certainly none that achieved the box-office results it did.  Call it diverse or not, but it was unique.

[Zero999]

Of they could have just kept Dr Who the same.

I don't watch TV now, as I don't have a licence, but I know the BBC have had programmes with a lead black actor (Luther) and a main female character (Silent Witness), which were both quite popular.

The Doctor frequently regenerates, it's a role that actors don't seem to want to do for long for whatever reason,  Matt Smith was reportedly bored of it so they cast a new actor.  One of the benefits of a sci-fi show where you can plot-wave you way out of changing what the main actor looks like.  There was no keeping it the same, each actor plays the Doctor differently (it's literally canon in the show that each Doctor has its own character and behaviour even if they "the same" individual) and it's up to the screenwriter to adapt the script to suit.

I get that the doctor can in theory be anyone, but he had always been a white man, which worked well. It was blatantly obvious why they changed the sex of Doctor Who. I vaguely remember she said something about being better, when she emerged. That was enough to put many off, before even getting to the silly stories. I stopped watching after that.

If they're mostly black, then that's not very diverse.

Well, now you're just playing with words.  There aren't many films like it where almost all of the actors are black, certainly none that achieved the box-office results it did.  Call it diverse or not, but it was unique.

No, I'm using the word diverse, in its true sense. Nowadays it's all too often just code for more black and fewer white people, which is silly.

[tom66]

I get that the doctor can in theory be anyone, but he had always been a white man, which worked well. It was blatantly obvious why they changed the sex of Doctor Who. I vaguely remember she said something about being better, when she emerged. That was enough to put many off, before even getting to the silly stories. I stopped watching after that.

Well, I think it could have worked, Jodie is a good actor, but she was given trash scripts. There were one or two really good episodes, but they played it too like she was some kind of schoolteacher who just wanted all the kids to have fun on their adventures.  I didn't like that.  I hope they do better for Ncuti because, well, it does give people ammunition that these character choices are just bad and everyone should be the same as before, I don't think that's true at all.

There's nothing in Dr Who canon that the Doctor has to be a white man, it's just that he'd (she'd?) always been played by a white guy, there are and were female companions and female timelords appeared in the show.   Just because something has been done historically does not mean it has to remain that way forever.  Providing it is done well, of course.

[coppice]

Well, I think it could have worked, Jodie is a good actor, but she was given trash scripts.

Well, if she can't make a trash script work she isn't going to have much of a career in the present environment.

[Zero999]

Cinema Theatre audiences are falling and streaming subscriptions are also down.

It's probably just as much to do with the fall in living standards, as people are cutting back on luxuries, just as much as the lack of originality.

https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/streaming-fatigue-uk-subscriptions-dip/
https://www.obs.coe.int/en/web/observatoire/2023-press-releases/-/asset_publisher/0t9kVBabnI8V/content/a-long-road-to-recovery-eu-uk-cinema-attendance-up-by-63-in-2022-still-short-of-pre-pandemic-average

[coppice]

Cinema Theatre audiences are falling and streaming subscriptions are also down.

It's probably just as much to do with the fall in living standards, as people are cutting back on luxuries, just as much as the lack of originality.

https://www.cordbusters.co.uk/streaming-fatigue-uk-subscriptions-dip/
https://www.obs.coe.int/en/web/observatoire/2023-press-releases/-/asset_publisher/0t9kVBabnI8V/content/a-long-road-to-recovery-eu-uk-cinema-attendance-up-by-63-in-2022-still-short-of-pre-pandemic-average

Raised priced for things like Netflix. A substantially decreased catalogue, especially for Netflix. Even in a good economy, with some appealing new material. the fragmenting into numerous streaming services, each with their own small number of new and interesting series, would have hurt streaming subscriptions.