An partial Goodbye .. could be .

[Kiriakos-GR]

Well Its known that Greece faces from the 2010 one severe economical instability ,
in short we call it as Crisis.

Well those problems in our economy, had become today an major issue,
and the internal economy are almost destroyed.

There is no income for the many,
and the whatever bills started to stack up  ( electrical - internet - banking - other ),
and the 70% of the population are unable to handle them).

I can not exclude my self, as I face the same problems,
and so I will have the "privilege" to be on-line for 4-5 days the most from today.

Some one will say who cares ?
Well , the very few who had the time to get in knowing me,
and called as friends , they must be informed some how.  

I will continue to visit the forum, from time to time.

I have stored all ready for off-line use , some important threads of the forum.
And few videos of Dave , the ones about the DMM that I favor most.

And so I am prepared for my partial Goodbye.

The financial recovery of Greece could take years,
at list as human and technician , I have got all ready all the items ( tools ) that I need so to work,
if work and pay , become an active task again.

Thanks for reading my message.   

[johnmx]

Here in Portugal we are facing the same reality, but in a lower level. My case is not so bad because I don’t have any credit to pay and my job is more or less stable. There is no guaranteed job on these days.
Let’s wait for better days and never give up.

[saturation]

Sorry to hear K, best of luck in getting things together in Greece and for you.

[EEVblog]

Wow, sorry to hear that Kiriakos, I knew Greece was in trouble, but had no idea it was that bad

Those big banker corporate overloads who created all this mess really piss me off 

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you, and Greece, and look forward to seeing you back.

Regards
Dave.

[EEVblog]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/21/businesspro-us-greece-emerging-restructu-idUSTRE73K4QV20110421

$400B debt?
Sounds like a lot, but didn't the US bail out it's big banker buddies for more than double that? with ZERO accountability, and almost ZERO of it going to the people?
The world is so screwed up 

Dave.

[Mechatrommer]

forget about the government, forget about the debt. thats the sin they have to deal with. below is my (more green'ier) place compared to highly packed population of Kiri's. things for certain is... everybody needs electricity, food, work etc, the basic stuff. so, good luck Kiri, pls do come back when you got something, dont say good bye. I love you...

[MrPlacid]

Kiriakos, good luck and hope that Greece's reconstructing plan works out.

As for having Dave's videos, I got them all downloaded too except for the last couple videos;D You'll never know when he decide to call it quits. Hope never.

Take care.

[alexwhittemore]

didn't the US bail out it's big banker buddies for more than double that? with ZERO accountability, and almost ZERO of it going to the people?

The worst part is that said companies were so apeshit irresponsible and yet controlled so much of the country's financial business that our government may well be right: NOT bailing them out might indeed have screwed us even MORE.

But don't get me started on how boned the US is. Well over half of our population is too politically ignorant to function, much less vote, and we all want free breakfast, lunch, and dinner without paying any taxes to cover it.

I swear, if things get much worse, I'm moving to Germany. At least there the 35% tax buys me the ability to injure myself without paying a dime or filling out paperwork. And even if I don't, at least I can still buy a Gossen there.

[EEVblog]

The worst part is that said companies were so apeshit irresponsible and yet controlled so much of the country's financial business that our government may well be right: NOT bailing them out might indeed have screwed us even MORE.

That I greatly doubt it, because that's exactly what they wanted everyone to think, therefore is more than likely complete bullshit.
The system is much more robust than everyone thinks.
The system was (and still is) built on fear and the ever lasting illusion that is capitalism.
Greatest blatant crime of the century, no doubt about it. My hats actually off to them for having the balls to do it and get away with it, scott free.

Dave.

[alexwhittemore]

I mean, if we're talking about the housing market, which is the big one here, the "system" was very much not robust, by willful irresponsibility. The point is that the perpetrators of the irresponsibility made gobtons of money and knew that when it all came crashing down, they wouldn't personally suffer any ill effects. But we can argue about it all day. The only possible outcome is that I get really, really angry thinking about it and waste lots of time.

[Mechatrommer]

The only possible outcome is that I get really, really angry thinking about it and waste lots of time.

thats why i dont care much about it (but a news or heads up like this is a good thing, for whoever that care). i only care on how to get my personal income more without being affected too much by this political and economical stuffs. online business anyone? think i can get rid of the goverment taxes by this

[scrat]

Sad to see you Kiriakos leave (for a while!)... Really, for you and for the many people like you.

The first thought is that there's a positive feedback (and we all know "positive" besides "feedback" is not a good thing): in Greece (but Italy could follow, soon) people won't have the possibility to use the internet, to buy instrumentation, to learn, ..., which will cause them to be less competitive, and so on.
I don't agree with the idea that the only responsibles are the banks, since the real economy (production) has been going down since a long time ago in EU, USA and Japan, and I think that's the real cause. Investors introduced a great disturbance in the system (speculating), which is making the transient harder (for the poorest people).

I hope in what the history tells: it's after the worst storms that comes the clearest sun. Europe's and, even more, Japan's economical growth after the WWII are some of the biggest examples. I hope this crisis (and what has still to come) will get us to roll up our sleeves and work harder (but in a different way, possibly), having lost the illusion that it's possible to give the minimum and get more than enough.

$400B debt?
Sounds like a lot, but didn't the US bail out it's big banker buddies for more than double that? with ZERO accountability, and almost ZERO of it going to the people?
The world is so screwed up 
Dave.

The worst problem is the public debt/GDP ratio, and the fact that the owners of the debt are stranger investors for very a large part...

[firewalker]

I am from Greece too. Things are really bad (for me personally too).

For example the price of gasoline (due to taxes) from 1.16 USD (2009) is 2.40 USD now per litre (0.26 US gallon). The salaries went 30~50 % down.

Our politician are a bunch of masturbating monkeys. They don't understand that by increasing the taxes (VAT for 18% to 23%) they collect less, because we can't afford buy anything. E.g. the price of fuel doubled since 2009. The state income of the fuel the first trimester of 2011 is 277 millions (USD) less than 2009. Why? Because we can't afford gas anymore and we don;t use our cars.

The bottom line is that they don;t want Greece ton be saved. They wan;t to  impoverish/"zombiefy" us in order to take the full control.

Greece took a huge amount of money from the European central bank. Right after that Germany and France forced Greece to buy weapons from them (submarines from Germany and ground-air missiles from France if am not mistaken). Half of the loan went to them.

How did they forced Greece to do that? Simple. They threatened to give a negative vote for the loan...

They are shutting down Schools too!

[Bored@Work]

$400B debt?
Sounds like a lot, but didn't the US bail out it's big banker buddies for more than double that? with ZERO accountability, and almost ZERO of it going to the people?
The world is so screwed up 

Greece, like Portugal, Ireland and others expect the Germans to bail them out. The thing is, the Germans aren't as stupid any more as they were in the past. While they pay something, they don't pay unlimited. Especially not when there are no concessions.

E.g., the Greek retirement age with full pension rights is 60 years (58 without full pension), while Germany is just moving the age to 67 years. It is hard to explain to German workers why they need to work seven more years to finance a number of corrupt foreign governments, banks and lazy workers.

Greece is also not making friends in Germany, because the Greek government is going after German journalists who called Greece what they are, connmen who falsified the financial reports given to the EU. It is not just the banks, it is the Greek government, supported by the Greek people, who lied and cheated like there was no tomorrow. Now prosecutor Ourania Stathea is wetting her pants, because a liar was called a liar.

[Zero999]

Shame to see you go and hope you get back on your feet.

I think the idiots who borrowed more than they could afford are just as much to blame as the bankers.

What should the government have done? Let the banks fail.

In the UK Labour borrowed too much money when the going was good. The trouble now is the government can't borrow any more and they want to make cuts which will harm the economy. What annoys me is they cut jobs to save money but it doesn't because the people who've lost their jobs just start claiming benefits. If there was a time to make cuts and increase taxes, it was years ago when the economy was booming, it's true it would've reduced the growth but the government would now have some money saved which the can spend to carry us through the lean period.

Anyone who says they only care about how this affects them deserves all they get and it's people like that who are the reason why we're in the mess we are at the moment. Selfish people who only vote for governments who give them what they want, not what's best for the country give rise to irresponsible governments.

[Mechatrommer]

Selfish people who only vote for governments who give them what they want, not what's best for the country give rise to irresponsible governments.

reminds me of the election season. $50 notes are flying everywhere hoping who get it will vote the sourcerer, ie current governor! poorly our old folks are less educative and just simply vote for them. but not anymore, for young generation, awareness arise to stop this madness.

[Kiriakos-GR]

Thanks for your positive comments people.
I love ya too.

All those chances that we had , so to debate or exchange ideas , or even help its other ,
gave to some of us the chance to build feelings for its other, and even to create an friendship,
that usually does not happen in the anonymous forums.

Dave you had made an true friend in Greece,
I just hope to have the chance in this life time, so to prove it to you.

Cheers to all.  





 

  

[Frangible]

Greece, like Portugal, Ireland and others expect the Germans to bail them out.

Apropos nothing, there was a time when people just expected the Germans to invade them.  My, how things have changed. 

[A Hellene]

Kiriakos, I am sorry to hear that you are in such a trouble as to downgrade your internet connection, since internet access is not considered to be a luxury --at least, not yet... I am really sorry, my fellow man, and I wish you the best.

Speaking of politicians, they are nothing else that theatrical actors! Theatrical actors of the worst kind, I might add, because people are unable to realise that what the politicians really are is company agents, in reality: They are payed to get elected in order to modify every country's legislation framework in favour of those who pay them; in favour of those who they really work for; in favour of those who actually pull the strings, safely hidden in anonymity.

I am sorry, but this is the ugly truth... To prove my assertion I will refer you to our recent municipal elections, where an incompatible person (Spiros Hatzaras) was simply deprived from his right to be elected, since he was becoming popular due to his stance against the banking cartel. They could not risk to have real opposition (someone they do not control) in power...

Anyway, this is a very long subject matter and a very difficult one to be understood by the everyday citizen, since those bits of reality are very well obfuscated from public opinion.
Tell me, please, what do you think you really know about Social Engineering? And, yes, that "A Hellene" who wrote the essay is me!

Debt! What does this term really mean? Well, I have recently attempted to draw the real picture of debt in another discussions board I participate in. So, allow me, please, to link you to these two short pieces I have written, back in May of 2010:
Debt, Part 1 and Debt, Part 2. Of course, I admit I am Giorgos_K from the AVRFreaks community!


Take care,
-George

[Kiriakos-GR]

since he was becoming popular due to his stance against the banking cartel.

Take care,
-George

Hi George , I really do not like to expand to this story ,
but this is the point.
Politicians that the get payed under the table , and they do not protect the interest of the simple voter.

I have an personal dept of few thousands Euro , it was under control, and if I had an true stable work,
I could eliminate it .
But not any more.

Everything turned upside down , dreams and future.

And the truth are that in order to turn the economy of any country upside down,
you need an well planed plan , and takes years.

Even now I promote the idea that the people should get involved with the political life of their countries,
so to monitor the actions of their politicians.
And to be active if they dislike something.

Its not an simple task , but with out monitoring of what your politicians do,
you could live the same surprise , that the Greek people faces today.

I blame the bankers too, local ones and foreigners ,
they are the specialists , and they played the game by looking exclusively their profits.

It would be an major joy to me, to see them all , to turn in to dust.
Like the dreams of thousands people worldwide.

All the experts are saying that the banking system is ready to collapse,
and needs one true reboot .
Well the idea is zero debt for all , and starting over.
Well I prefer that, than an new major War.

I do not expect that I will got any followers, to support my view,
I am just saying what I think as best.    
  

[updatelee]

We all have debt, at least most of us. I try and have as little as possible but its something we all struggle with. Times are tuff everywhere, I myself had to leave the high paying jobs of the oil fields because the stability was gone after the economic crash. Many of my relatives decided to stay and have had months and some over a year without work. Friends that told me they would never work out of town away from their families are now doing that and gone for months at a time.

I took a much lower paying job, but had great benefits, super job stability and I love the work. For me at least this economic crash has forced me to rethink how I want to live my life and that I didnt want money to be the centre of it all.

Proverbs 22:7 http://lds.org/scriptures/ot/prov/22?lang=eng

Keep tuffing it out, re evaluate what you need in your life and what you dont, keep working hard and things will with time get better. Good luck

[Kiriakos-GR]

I took a much lower paying job, but had great benefits, super job stability and I love the work. For me at least this economic crash has forced me to rethink how I want to live my life and that I didnt want money to be the centre of it all.

Yes I will agree , but can you say to the poor technician , who has only some good tools as property,
that from now and on, he must have less , or stop dreaming that he would be capable of making just an base income ?
Enough for starting a family and support it.

We are not millionaires , that our boats got crashed in a storm...

Any way , thanks for the positive spirit.
   

[A Hellene]

[...]
And the truth are that in order to turn the economy of any country upside down,
you need an well planed plan , and takes years.
[...]

I could not agree more with you, Kiriakos!

Have you seen the chart of our public debt?
Here it is, at the attachment below, showing how long this charade has been played on us.

Note that the period 1998-2004 is not depicted accurately: The debt was NOT reduced. This is the outcome of the "creative accounting" trick our PM Simitis pulled with the help of Goldman Sachs, to make Greece deceptively meet the requirements to join Eurozone.

Though money (meaning real money that can be redeemed instantly for something of value, like gold; not printed colour IOUs in the form of fiat currency) is the most useful tool for commercial transactions, debt is something very very different. The difference between debt and money is analogous to the difference between rape and love-making; they are entirely different things.

John Whipple, an American Lawyer, wrote in 1836 in his treatise called "The Importance of Usury Laws":

If 5 English pennies [...] had been [lent] at 5 per cent compound interest from the beginning of the Christian era until the present time, it would amount in gold of standard fineness to 32,366,648,157 spheres of gold each eight thousand miles in diameter, or as large as the earth.

A more recent recalculation was made by JAK Bank, in their Aug. 2007 report:

If someone had invested 1 (one) cent with 5% interest in a bank in the year 0 CE, and in 2000 CE asked back this one cent investment with the accumulated interest of the 5% of the agreement, the bank would owe this person more than 500 billion balls of gold, each one having the weight of the earth!

Such is the nature of compound interest. This kind of bad math shows the fraudulent character of those debt practices... And lots of archaeological artifacts (the Babylonian clay tablets, for example) are proofs that this deception is a few thousand years old, as I explain in the links at my previous message.


-George

[Kiriakos-GR]

Well its clear that something happened at 1980 .

And i can not believe that the Greeks got massively insane ..

It would be nice point of interest, if we had the same stats from Portugal . 

By the way, where do live George, city ?

[Mechatrommer]

our government seems to be in the same direction as yours (early stage). ie to corrupt all the people's money into their pocket, i dont know about the debt, thats not published clearly, or at least falsify to us. so i need a plan in advance to get rid of it all in case it happened, but i dont know, the plan maybe just a dream, but at least i need to try, and keep my brains working.

ps: sometime i think that the american invasion into some other countries is a reasonable thing for the government that stubborn enough to get the people to know the truth, and dont work hard enough to develop the country and avoid this madness. even our election, we cannot trust 100% anymore, government has some trick to make sure they win the election, even though more people were voting opposition.