EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope

[EEVblog]

Competition document attached.

[ataradov]

Competition document attached.

Even this document contains a lot of different fonts. They should really hire someone to check this. The situation is so bad that it would be a full-time position

[mrpackethead]

Recomended prices from Rigol - https://www.rigol.eu/products/digital-oscilloscopes/MSO5000/

809 Euros for the baseline model. They're going to make many millions after the hack appears. 

(we just need somebody to dump the ROM and everybody who knows the chip to look and find the license check algorithm)

In deed, i likely would buy 4 of them,  they woudl be a great 'bench' scope to put on peoples work areas for general work.. ( I have old DS1102E's for that, but they are getting a bit tired. ).. 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Competition document attached.

Even this document contains a lot of different fonts. They should really hire someone to check this. The situation is so bad that it would be a full-time position

Maybe check the English while they're at it. WTF is a "burr signal"

[2N3055]

Competition document attached.

Even this document contains a lot of different fonts. They should really hire someone to check this. The situation is so bad that it would be a full-time position

Maybe check the English while they're at it. WTF is a "burr signal"

Lots of factual errors too. Lots of text was copy/paste from DS7000 material.. Like references to 3000 series Teks and Keysight...

[thm_w]

https://rigolcanada.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/mso5000/
$1,173 CAD for the base model, if that is true its even cheaper than the USD price. $886 USD. Were there any china test gear tariffs?

One note in the datasheet, they state: "Unique online version upgrade". Hopefully that just means you can upgrade over ethernet if you want to, I doubt they would force anything. But worst case could run it with ethernet unplugged.

[TK]

https://rigolcanada.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/mso5000/
$1,173 CAD for the base model, if that is true its even cheaper than the USD price. $886 USD. Were there any china test gear tariffs?

I think US is applying 10% tariff for China Made Products, and scopes fall into this category.  (25% for Spectrum Analyzers) Rigol DS1054Z is now $375 (up from $345) and Keysight 1000X (Made in China) series prices are up as well.

[Hydrawerk]

Competition document attached.

Even this document contains a lot of different fonts. They should really hire someone to check this. The situation is so bad that it would be a full-time position

Wow, this document looks like it was unfinished or something...

[0xdeadbeef]

If you are supposed to know thousands of characters, the finer details of western typesets might become blurry.

[ataradov]

If you are supposed to know thousands of characters, the finer details of western typesets might become blurry.

That's why you hire an industrial designer. Spelling errors in the UI and horrible fonts are OK if you are providing excellent value. But when you want to play with big guys, you need to be on the level at least in the industrial design, arguably the simplest metric to achieve.

[bitseeker]

Then again, it's become Rigol's "style." Hopefully, no one else decides it's a good idea and copies the poor practices.

[TK]

Seriously... if you are a hobbyist, why would you pay $909 for a scope that is similar to the DS1054Z?  Except for higher sample memory, is there any new feature on the MSO5000 that a hobbyist can take advantage of vs the 1054Z?

[bitseeker]

There's higher sampling rate, too. But, no, for general use the DS1054Z, SDS1104X-E, etc. are just fine. I'm not replacing mine.

[alexkiritz]

Seriously... if you are a hobbyist, why would you pay $909 for a scope that is similar to the DS1054Z?  Except for higher sample memory, is there any new feature on the MSO5000 that a hobbyist can take advantage of vs the 1054Z?

9 inch 1024 x 600 screen vs 7 inch 800 X 480 screen. I'm sure that's enough reason for a lot of people.

[LapTop006]

9 inch 1024 x 600 screen vs 7 inch 800 X 480 screen. I'm sure that's enough reason for a lot of people.

Yep, non-teensy screen is one of the key reasons I bought the scope I did, sure you can plug in external screens, but you intend to move a scope around that's just more of a pain.

The Tek MSO5 is great for this, hopefully better screens keep trickling down to more affordable scopes.

[Fungus]

Seriously... if you are a hobbyist, why would you pay $909 for a scope that is similar to the DS1054Z?  Except for higher sample memory, is there any new feature on the MSO5000 that a hobbyist can take advantage of vs the 1054Z?

Touch screen, web interface, HDMI output, better FFT...

[Muttley Snickers]

It also has a clock.    

[Fungus]

Seriously... if you are a hobbyist, why would you pay $909 for a scope that is similar to the DS1054Z?  Except for higher sample memory, is there any new feature on the MSO5000 that a hobbyist can take advantage of vs the 1054Z?

Bigger screen, per-channel controls, touch screen, HDMI output, web interface, better FFT?

OTOH the $909 model only has two channels and no serial decoding, so... 

The success/fail of this will depend entirely on the hacking, IMHO. I don't see why anybody would buy the $909 model instead of the much cheaper 2-channel Siglent (is a fancy screen and separate controls worth $400 plus loss of bandwidth and serial decoders? I don't think so)

No hacks=no sales. Rigol must know that. I can't believe they'll throw away all the R&D effort for their new chipset by trying to sell it at the official prices, it would be suicide.

They have the option of offering "free" options, sure, it wouldn't surprise me if you get free serial decoders this Xmas, but they'll probably make far more money in the long term by just letting people hack it.

Hacking this would completely kill their DS2000X range though and I bet there's an idiot boss at Rigol who's worried about that.

I'm sure the hack will happen, the only question is whether you need JTAG or just a keygen.

There's higher sampling rate, too.

Not in the $909 model. 

[iMo]

Any idea what is the Spartan6 doing there?

[TK]

There's higher sampling rate, too.

Not in the $909 model. 

MSO5072 ($909) has 8GSa/s

[Gromitt]

Recomended prices from Rigol - https://www.rigol.eu/products/digital-oscilloscopes/MSO5000/
Simone (Batterly) offer the best price for now .

No, Batterfly has the same price as Batronix, and Batronix offers free postage in EU.

[Old Printer]

Odd that in the US Tequipment's site makes no mention of the new MSO5000 yet Saelig has a big splash on it???

[tequipment]

Search see tequipment we have it up

[julianhigginson]

I think it's safe to assume that the MSO5000 isn't particularly aimed at hobbyists.  Yeah there's configurations that are under the famous "big hobby expenditure bump" at $3k, but  it doesn't seem to be aimed at the people doing the same kind of things as DS1000z customers.

Lets see how the hack situation goes, but really I'm expecting they will plug that gap after having to give away so much functionality on the 1000z.

Also, all this talk about the 2 channel 70MHz version is a bit funny.

You guys realise that option is there as a price anchor for the versions they actually expect to sell?

The concept of having a scope at the level of the MSO5000, but only having 70MHz bandwidth and 2 channels (barbaric! who would have a scope with only 2 channels in this day and age?!??!) is just too depressing to consider.. If you only need 2 channels and 70MHz, well you really don't need 8GS/s and 500k captures/sec either, so just get the DS1000z.

If you're buying a MSO5000 for general professional embedded work, you're going to be looking at the 4 channel 200MHz version and the app bundle... US$3400ish. (plus maybe the logic analyser cable bundle for anther $400, but most can live without having an LA in their scope these days)  And assuming the implementation of the firmware is basically functional and the scope is easy to use and accurate and reliable, well that would be a great bargain looking at equivalent low/mid tek and keysight models.

[chickenHeadKnob]

The smallest fonts on the screen look to be equal in size to the smallest font on the DS2072a. Is that the case? I find them to be inscrutable. It would be a shame if that is still a problem, but at least you can hook up an external monitor so maybe not such a big deal.