EEVblog #933 - Keysight U1272A EMC Issue

[Zbig]

@Keysight Technologies Rep, could you please clarify whether, as a current owner of U1273A, I would get an U1282A specifically should I opt for an exchange for U1280 series? I use the low pass filter and I wouldn't like the AC bandwidth downgrade, either.

[Berni]

@Keysight Technologies Rep, could you please clarify whether, as a current owner of U1273A, I would get an U1282A specifically should I opt for an exchange for U1280 series? I use the low pass filter and I wouldn't like the AC bandwidth downgrade, either.

I also have a U1273A that is clearly also affected by the same issue. What options do we have?

[saturation]

This is wonderful news.  I look forward to examining an upgrade and applaud Keysights move.

Reviewing the entire model line on the website, I remain concerned about bugs I see in other models fixed in future firmware revisions, as well as the bench meters.  For example, on the 1253B.  Currently the firmware online is 2016-09-05 3.04.  That's a 3 yr difference.   Bugs seem to be ever present in many models in the line.



<sub>Firmware revision updates:-


version 3.04 fixed issues present in the previous release.
-   Keysight rebranding, change identity to Keysight and Keysight Logo
-   Fix incorrect temperature dual display in fahrenheit
-   Fix incorrect analog bargraph indication
-   Fix incorrect ACuA level compensation at 20 kHZ and above
-   Fix incorrect MAXMIN display, when changing from AC to DC mode, or vice versa
-   Fix incorrect MAXMIN display, when changing from LOCK range to AUTO range, or vice versa
-   Fix incorrect AUTO HOLD display at HZ measurement
-   Fix incorrect range changes in AUTO HOLD
-   Fix for MAXMIN feature to restart, when changing from LOCK range to AUTO range, or vice versa
-   Fix display update rate
-   Fix incorrect LOG view in setup mode setting
-   Fix incorrect APO mode when PEAK HOLD is enabled
-   Fix incorrect LOG view range display in PERCmA
-   Fix incorrect OL flag check for mS, add variable pulse width range and one duty range 


2013-08-05

Version 2.26 fixed an issue present in the previous release.
-    Fix incorrect reading when the battery level is at = 4.7V. Wrong reading on the display may mislead users about the measurement made.
-    Fix datalogging memory retrieval problem. When log memory is full, it will not be able to retrieve previously logged data.
-    Fix inaccurate DC measurement when mixed signal (AC+DC) present. The factory default option is set to DC Filter ON during DC measurement. The DC Filter function attenuates AC signals to help you read the correct DC measurement from a mixed signal.

Version 2.13
-    Initial release</sub>


On the 1282a, so far firmware releases show bugs are minor:

<sub>Firmware revision updates:-


Version 1.02
-    Initial release

Version 1.03 fixes several issues present in the previous release.
-   Change microcontroller sampling period from 25ms to 12.5ms.
-    Bug fix for CAP+NULL+AUTO wrong range.
-   Faster LED response for continuity.

Version 1.04 fixes several issues present in the previous release.
-   Change Ampere calibration limits from 70% to 80% to solve       production calibration fallout.
-   Improve Autozero limitation by recalculating Autozero and not       loading Autozero default value when inputs are OL.
-   Reset OP1 & AD1 before reading Autozero.
-   Zero Timer change from 4.2 seconds to 6.2 seconds.</sub>

What a great response from Keysight.
Thank you.

Is it confirmed that the U1280 does not have this problem or other problems?


I have requested a
" -- A higher performance U1280 series handheld digital multimeter"

[/sub]

[Lockon Stratos]

@Keysight Technologies Rep, could you please clarify whether, as a current owner of U1273A, I would get an U1282A specifically should I opt for an exchange for U1280 series? I use the low pass filter and I wouldn't like the AC bandwidth downgrade, either.

I just contacted the local reseller to ask the same question, they said thet they didnt heard about this...  They said that they have to contact with keysight and they will call me back tomorrow.

[TheAmmoniacal]

@Keysight Technologies Rep, could you please clarify whether, as a current owner of U1273A, I would get an U1282A specifically should I opt for an exchange for U1280 series? I use the low pass filter and I wouldn't like the AC bandwidth downgrade, either.

I just contacted the local reseller to ask the same question, they said thet they didnt heard about this...  They said that they have to contact with keysight and they will call me back tomorrow.

I would be surprised if news travels that fast within Keysight! This is clearly organized internally, I'm sure sales don't know much about it (yet).

[HighVoltage]

Since I have an U1272, I also would expect a U1282 in exchange, to have all other features available.

Again a big thank you to Keysight for taking care of this issue in such a great way.
 

[Zbig]

Since I have an U1272, I also would expect a U1282 in exchange, to have all other features available.

Again a big thank you to Keysight for taking care of this issue in such a great way.

On a second thought, I'll opt for a revised U1273A (and a USB cable) when they're ready. I really, really like the OLED display; don't want to give up on this. I hate the setup menus trying to display actual words using illegible, broken, mixed-case characters on a 7-segment display. Plus, I like the form factor of the U1270 series and the way it fits in your hand when you carry it. U1280 just seems too huge for benchtop use to me. Plus, it lacks the U1270's smart Ohms, smart diode and LowZ.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Since I have an U1272, I also would expect a U1282 in exchange, to have all other features available.

Again a big thank you to Keysight for taking care of this issue in such a great way.

On a second thought, I'll opt for a revised U1273A (and a USB cable) when they're ready. I really, really like the OLED display; don't want to give up on this. I hate the setup menus trying to display actual words using illegible, broken, mixed-case characters on a 7-segment display. Plus, I like the form factor of the U1270 series and the way it fits in your hand when you carry it. U1280 just seems too huge for benchtop use to me. Plus, it lacks the U1270's smart Ohms, smart diode and LowZ.

I assume you don't have to send them your old meter for a /replacement/? You'll just get a new one at no cost?

[Zbig]

I assume you don't have to send them your old meter for a /replacement/? You'll just get a new one at no cost?

I would assume you have to send yours back to them, although I haven't filled out the form yet (I don't have mine's serial number on me)

[TheAmmoniacal]

I assume you don't have to send them your old meter for a /replacement/? You'll just get a new one at no cost?

I would assume you have to send yours back to them, although I haven't filled the form yet (I don't have mine's serial number on me)

Me neither, anyone filled out the form etc? If I have to give my U1272A back it makes the choice a lot more difficult!

[Lockon Stratos]

@Keysight Technologies Rep, could you please clarify whether, as a current owner of U1273A, I would get an U1282A specifically should I opt for an exchange for U1280 series? I use the low pass filter and I wouldn't like the AC bandwidth downgrade, either.

I just contacted the local reseller to ask the same question, they said thet they didnt heard about this...  They said that they have to contact with keysight and they will call me back tomorrow.

I would be surprised if news travels that fast within Keysight! This is clearly organized internally, I'm sure sales don't know much about it (yet).

I assume we have to send back the "old" ones when we get the new so its easier for me to do this through them... (hopefully it can be done...)

[TheAmmoniacal]

I guess we just have to trust them on the logistics

[Tom45]

I just filled out the form and selected the updated U1272 option. I would miss the U1272's smart Ohms, smart diode and LowZ features. I can wait until February. In the comments I mentioned that I already have the IR-USB cable. Will have to see if they still send me another one.

After clicking submit it says a Keysight representative will contact me.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I just filled out the form and selected the updated U1272 option. I would miss the U1272's smart Ohms, smart diode and LowZ features. I can wait until February. In the comments I mentioned that I already have the IR-USB cable. Will have to see if they still send me another one.

After clicking submit it says a Keysight representative will contact me.

Keep us updated! No hints of having to return yours?

[Barny]

@Tom45:
I haven't read a word about exchange.
All they wrote indicates that they send an aditional one.
As far I knew, exchange is more expensive then sending a aditional DMM
Because the have to rework them all, check them and give a new warrenty.
And that all for a used meter, that sells at an lower price.

And nearly every sold used meter is one new meter sold less.
There are manny companies which are buying all available used machines and equipment to force potential customer to buy new machines / equipment.


Thums up  for this action of Keysight.
But they should have been a little more clear about what and how the whole process get handled.

Because of the lack of information, i'm still  undecided which option I should choose.

[TheAmmoniacal]

@Tom45:
I haven't read a word about exchange.
All they wrote indicates that they send an aditional one.
As far I knew, exchange is more expensive then sending a aditional DMM, because the have to rework them all, check them and give a new warrenty.
And tat all for a used meter, that sells at an lower price.
An nearly every sold used meter is one new meter sold less.
There are manny companies which are buying all available used machines and equipment to force potential customer to buy new machines / equipment.


Thums up for the this action of Keysight.
But they should have been a little more clear about what and how the whole process get handled.

This is why I assumed they didn't want it back, they have no use for it - except throwing them away and pretending it never happened.

There's no way it can be economical to rework the units, recalibrate, clean them and sell them as used?

Or resell them as used with different specs? (and EMC claims)

[Tom45]

Haven't heard anything yet from Keysight.

As for returning the old one, mine isn't a Keysight meter. So they would have to replace the Agilent case with one saying Keysight besides whatever else they might do. I agree that refurbishing them would be unlikely.

[eliocor]

The right action should be: EXCHANGE the unit and DESTROY the one returned.
But I'd prefer they leave the old unit to the owner: I would keep my two U1272A multimeters as "field/expandable" units just to keep them in my car trunk or the "heavy" tools bag.

[TheAmmoniacal]

The right action should be: EXCHANGE the unit and DESTROY the one returned.
But I'd prefer they leave the old unit to the owner: I would keep my two U1272A multimeters as "field/expandable" units just to keep them in my car trunk or the "heavy" tools bag.

I would most likely have to pay out of my ass for the VAT just to receive the new one, so I'd like to keep the old one!

[eliocor]

email received from keysight:Quote

Hi Elio
 
Thank you for your response and for choosing the option to receive a higher performance U1280 handheld digital multi-meter. We will process your request base on the information you provided as listed below.
 
Your name: XXXXXXX
Your mailing address: YYYYYY
Your phone number: ZZZZZZ
Product Model: U1272A
Serial Number: KKKKKKK
 
A Keysight representative will contact you for the delivery arrangement in two weeks. The delivery time may vary depending on the destination country. Please contac

t hh_promo@keysight.com if you have any questions.
Thanks!

Thanks and regards,

Exxxxxn Cxxxk
Business Process Coordinator
Keysight Technologies

[H.O]

One reason for requesting them back, if only to scrap them, could be to simply get them off the possible second hand market.

Soon people having received a brand new replacement meter will stick their old one on EBAY. The next user will (possibly) discover it has an issue, (maby) do some research and then (perhaps) try to request a replacement from Keygilent who obviously can't (and shouldn't) supply a second replacement meter only to find the saga repeat itself yet again.

Even if it's not really Keysights problem/fault that the second hand buyer has a faulty meter it certainly can't be good for them.

[TheAmmoniacal]

One reason for requesting them back, if only to scrap them, could be to simply get them off the possible second hand market.

Soon people having received a brand new replacement meter will stick their old one on EBAY. The next user will (possibly) discover it has an issue, (maby) do some research and then (perhaps) try to request a replacement from Keygilent who obviously can't (and shouldn't) supply a second replacement meter only to find the saga repeat itself yet again.

Even if it's not really Keysights problem/fault that the second hand buyer has a faulty meter it certainly can't be good for them.

That is a very good point, it would suck if people did that. Even if Keysight denies duplicates when registering serial numbers for their DMMs, people could still be cheated if not informed before purchasing a secondhand unit.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if Keysight keeps low about this recall, restricting it to larger communities like this one to get good faith makes sense (I'm okay with that). It's a big and expensive recall otherwise, I'm sure the U1272As sold alright.

[WackyGerman]

That s a really nice touch of Keysight  . Would be great if they do the same or comparable step for the user of the 1240 series which has the same issue 

[anfang]

re: U1281A/U1282A susceptibilty: current datasheet (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5992-0847EN.pdf) has the following paragraph:

Influence of radiated immunity: In RF electromagnetic fields of 3 V/M
DC voltage measurement accuracy:
 60 mV, 600 mV ; ± 0.25% of range
 6 V, 60 V, 600 V & 1000 V range; ± 0.1% of range
DC current measurement accuracy:
 600 uA & 6 mA range; ± 6.3% of range
 60 mA & 600 mA range; ± 1.9% of range
 6 A range; ± 0.7% of range
 10 A range; ± 1.4% of range

I.e. it's now your responsibility to ensure that field around the meter is <3 V/m to get ±6.3% accurate current measurements and if the field is stronger (which is quite easy to do as seen in the video), you'll not even get that

So, apparently, unless they already have a new revision of U1280 ready to ship, people opting for U1280-series replacement will receive meters still affected by this problem in a way similar to one shown in Dave's video

[TheAmmoniacal]

Filled out the form now so we'll see what happens! But I'm not going to send mine back, not unless Keysight can work magic with the Customs and courier.