EEVblog #413 - Mailbag

[EEVblog]

Mailbag Monday
What's in Dave's mail?

http://jaanus.tech-thing.org/category/half-ohm/
http://atlanta-robotics.com/Home.html
http://mdiy.pl/atmega-fusebit-doctor-hvpp/?lang=en
http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate
http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Blaster
http://www.energymicro.com
http://cdn.energymicro.com/dl/an/pdf/an0048_efm32_energy_friendly_display.pdf
http://www.atollic.com/index.php/truestudio
http://www.sharpmemorylcd.com/

! Private video

Dave.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I did a vid a while ago on the memory LCDs - they are awesome, and ex-stock at Mouser.
Note you can get them a lot cheaper than Mouser's price - don't recall exactly but I think it was something close to 50% of Mouser's price for 100x from (I think) Future Electronics.

I used the larger 400x240 ones for this project .

I'm surprised nobody's already done an Arduino based OSHW watch with them.
 

[janekm]

It is a real shame that Sharp just seem to be so disinclined to actually sell them (unless you want a million, no doubt)... This particular model is already listed "EOL" on Mouser and everyone else seems to be out of stock already.
And the cost would be very expensive even at half of Mouser's price...

Now they are moving to the zebra strip versions it seems, but good luck getting hold of small volumes of zebra strips...
It's a bit ridiculous, for the money they charge they really could have included the zebra strip (it's not like those cost anything if you buy them in volume...).

[tinhead]

actually only the older models are EOL, the new models are listed as "new product".

[Andlier]

actually only the older models are EOL, the new models are listed as "new product".

And the display that Dave demonstrated isn't any of those on mouser either, it is the new 3.0 V version 128*128 pixels, LS013B7DH03.
http://www.sharpsme.com/press/2011/Sharp-Expands-Its-Line-Memory-LCDs
I believe the pebble watch amongst others are using this new 3.0 V display, shouldn't be EOL'ing that soon...

[mikeselectricstuff]

actually only the older models are EOL, the new models are listed as "new product".

And the display that Dave demonstrated isn't any of those on mouser either, it is the new 3.0 V version 128*128 pixels, LS013B7DH03.
http://www.sharpsme.com/press/2011/Sharp-Expands-Its-Line-Memory-LCDs
I believe the pebble watch amongst others are using this new 3.0 V display, shouldn't be EOL'ing that soon...

I thought the Pebble was e-ink, or have they changed it now?

One problem with the earlier Sharp ones was they were specced to run at 5V, although we found the 400x240 would just work at 3.3v , but not much lower, so coin-cells would have needed some voltage boosting.
Looks like they've updated them to be more 3V friendly.
For a watch, I though the Zebra version would be more suitable as the case wouldn't need to accommodate the (fragile) flex tail.

Cheap LCD watches, or pretty much any low-cost consumer LCD product are  good sources of small zebra strips.

[Andlier]

I was under the impression that the Pebble guys wanted to ride the e-ink craze and its low power advantages so they called it e-ink. Not many has heard of "memory lcd"... but everyone knows what the kindle is and know that it is low power. They would need a memory lcd for fast refresh rates I guess. Check out this video which demonstrates animations and refresh rate possible with the memory lcd. That firmware with capacitive touch should be available shortly in an application note:

Yes, they have changed the supply voltage for the latest line of displays, at least for the smaller ones. That is a huge benefit for the efm32, since the display can run from the same supply as the efm32.

I agree that the zebra strip type would be better for a watch assembly. We had some problems with the flex-connection breaking off from the glass substrate when we worked on this slim watch project: http://forum.energymicro.com/topic/462-the-slimwatch-a-super-slim-efm32-wristwatch/

Mike: Do you know of any good source for capacitive touch film with sliders/buttons in the size of a the memory lcd? I would guess the normal route is to contact a manufacturer and agree on a minimum order quantity and have it custom made... Not cheap when just prototyping stuff for fun...

-Anders (Energy Micro employee)

[mikeselectricstuff]

Mike: Do you know of any good source for capacitive touch film with sliders/buttons in the size of a the memory lcd? I would guess the normal route is to contact a manufacturer and agree on a minimum order quantity and have it custom made... Not cheap when just prototyping stuff for fun...

No but I have had some success etching breaks into sheets of solid ITO coated glass using high voltage to spark it off - not sure if it would work as well on plastic. http://electricstuff.co.uk/transparent.html

[ftransform]

Did you ever do any kind of projection experiments with it mike? That's the most interesting use of it for me.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Did you ever do any kind of projection experiments with it mike? That's the most interesting use of it for me.

The mirror displays look like thay may be good for projection, however in practice you get a lot of reflection off the glass surface, so the contrast ratio isn't nearly as much as you'd like.

[tom66]

SRXD displays (LCoS or liquid crystal on silicon) had similar issues, though, with contrast ratios.  Cheaper brother of DLP.

[John C]

I have a similar memory LCD out on the desk right now, while watching Dave's mailbag video (instead of working), so just shot this demo...



And yes, in case anyone is interested I will share my clunky Spin driver for the thing on the Parallax object exchange - just as soon as it's 'done'.   

I don't need the refresh any faster for my application, so can let a cog or two happily deal with the four LCDs I need while other cogs get on with other stuff.   However, I really should try to do at least the bitmap to pin twiddling bits in assembler, one day...

[nardev]

Dave, i'm sorry for name on post card.

Few days before i sent the postcard i watched very long Live show for #400 episode and i heard your opinions about religion etc.. I did it because i thought it would be funny.

Anyway. I apologies for mentioning that because although we are all different, in my opinion, our differences should not ever be an issue while we talk about electronics and respect each other.

Sarajevo is the city where in less than 300 meters away you can find Roman Catholics Church, Orthodox Church, Synagogue and Mosque. Sharing ans respecting builds community.

In my opinion, if any issue is going to rise tensions, that should be completely put away.

Greetings.

[Andlier]

Mike: Do you know of any good source for capacitive touch film with sliders/buttons in the size of a the memory lcd? I would guess the normal route is to contact a manufacturer and agree on a minimum order quantity and have it custom made... Not cheap when just prototyping stuff for fun...

No but I have had some success etching breaks into sheets of solid ITO coated glass using high voltage to spark it off - not sure if it would work as well on plastic. http://electricstuff.co.uk/transparent.html

Interesting, I'll have to try out that some time. I was thinking of just rubbing it off or scraping it off with a knife. Maybe one could do the toner transfer trick and etch unwanted ITO off as well...

[EEVblog]

In my opinion, if any issue is going to rise tensions, that should be completely put away.

Nope, I'm not going to stop speaking my mind because it might offend someone. If someone is offended by something I say, that's their fault, not mine for just speaking my mind 

Dave.

[Andlier]

Nope, I'm not going to stop speaking my mind because it might offend someone. If someone is offended by something I say, that's their fault, not mine for just speaking my mind 

Dave.

Totally agree! 

[NiHaoMike]

Mike: Do you know of any good source for capacitive touch film with sliders/buttons in the size of a the memory lcd? I would guess the normal route is to contact a manufacturer and agree on a minimum order quantity and have it custom made... Not cheap when just prototyping stuff for fun...

No but I have had some success etching breaks into sheets of solid ITO coated glass using high voltage to spark it off - not sure if it would work as well on plastic. http://electricstuff.co.uk/transparent.html

For something more controlled (better resolution) than a high voltage arc, low voltage EDM can be used.

[Alexei.Polkhanov]

For something more controlled (better resolution) than a high voltage arc, low voltage EDM can be used.

If I remember right production version of this technology called "electro erosion". It is when subject is submerged in liquid solution of salts and graphite electrode is used to erode metal off the surface. Results obtained this way look much sexier. I am not sure if ITO can be edged out this way because it is an oxide not metal after all.

BTW there is cheap ITO glass on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160950837028?var=460146246628&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 I guess I will have fun playing with it when it arrives :-) Also it is a "low resistance" kind - 10-12 ohm/m^2. I am puzzling on how to calculate resistance of 5x50mm strip given ohm/m^2.

[marshallh]

In my opinion, if any issue is going to rise tensions, that should be completely put away.

Nope, I'm not going to stop speaking my mind because it might offend someone. If someone is offended by something I say, that's their fault, not mine for just speaking my mind 

Dave.

And this is why I still watch you Dave

[nardev]

Nope, I'm not going to stop speaking my mind because it might offend someone. If someone is offended by something I say, that's their fault, not mine for just speaking my mind 

Dave.

Totally agree! 

People, that is very easy for you to think like that.

You never lived through a conflict based on national/religion issues so you have no idea where it can get you to. Fortunately, my experiences in past war is something you never had chance to see.

Sorry for off topic.

[NeoMorph]

In my opinion, if any issue is going to rise tensions, that should be completely put away.

Nope, I'm not going to stop speaking my mind because it might offend someone. If someone is offended by something I say, that's their fault, not mine for just speaking my mind 

Dave.

Nooo Dave... don't do it. Religion has caused more wars than any other reason in history.

I think the gods invented religion so they can sit back on high and laugh at the humans while they beat each other up... perhaps religion is the gods version of WWF? Hence why I'm an agnostic.

[perfect_disturbance]

I'm not offended by Dave's religious opinions and its his blog so he obviously has a right to share them. But I also generally don't come here for extended rants about guns, or religion.  I think Dave gets that. It seems like that's why he likes to lock down the hot of topic threads before they overcome the on topic ones. It seems like he knows that a conversation about religion and politics is OK but a lot is a distraction from they main reason people come here. Which is to learn and talk about electronics engineering.

[chickenHeadKnob]

For something more controlled (better resolution) than a high voltage arc, low voltage EDM can be used.

If I remember right production version of this technology called "electro erosion". It is when subject is submerged in liquid solution of salts and graphite electrode is used to erode metal off the surface. Results obtained this way look much sexier. I am not sure if ITO can be edged out this way because it is an oxide not metal after all.

BTW there is cheap ITO glass on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/160950837028?var=460146246628&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 I guess I will have fun playing with it when it arrives :-) Also it is a "low resistance" kind - 10-12 ohm/m^2. I am puzzling on how to calculate resistance of 5x50mm strip given ohm/m^2.

If you are oogle-googleing it the search phrase "electrochemical discharge machining" is what is normally used to refer to the process that employs salty water. It is similar to EDM but has some differences. The main one is that if you are milling /eroding a long bore the metal can be removed from walls as well as the active front face.

You guys have to stop coming up with new stuff to play with, now I have to add ITO glass to my list. Damm.

[EEVblog]

Nooo Dave... don't do it. Religion has caused more wars than any other reason in history.

All the more reason for those of reason to stand up against the silly, childish, and archaic mass delusion that is organised religious belief. 
If someone brings it up, I'll set'em straight, you're welcome in advance 
Just like if you believe a $5 meter is good value... %-B

Dave.

[SeanB]

Hey, I just bought a $3 meter........... No stock of the $5 ones.