what an oscilloscope recommended for a woman passionate about electronics?

[StillTrying]

"the saved file has no timestamp."

I add the date to the PNG folder name when the memory stick arrives at the PC,  PNG2020-06-28,  that way the latest screen captures are easy to find because they're in the new PNG folder with no date stamp, there might be a better way.

[ArthurDent]

performed the probe compensation test with the right 10x settings 

while with 1x they seemed ok, with 10x they are not, and they must be compensated, this is how the channel 1 probe was

(Attachment Link)

And here are the two probes after compensation by adjusting the screw:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)



I'm starting to understand something, it was time... 

 

To learn something you can first read a description of the steps of a procedure but until you actually physically go through all the steps you do not fully understand what you have to do and may miss some steps like making sure the probe switch is in 10X. Until you go through the steps it is all just words and you don’t know how important each step might be.

You have now marked your probes with the correct colored split rings to identify them for the correct channel input connector and have adjusted the compensation for each channel on 10X. You can now see that all these steps are important to identify the probe color with the trace color and display the trace waveform correctly. It might be a good idea at this point to review some of the videos on compensation that have been shown to reinforce what you have now learned and understand. Even if, as you say, you have more trouble with understanding English in videos that with written text, you will probably watch the videos and say: “Oh now I see why they did that!”

https://youtu.be/jzdqugRHoGo

Keep in mind that we have all gone through these steps to learn some procedures and some of us (who are slower to learn than others posting here  ) may have some scars to prove it.   

On another subject, as has been said an oscilloscope isn’t basically dangerous but it is possible to use it in an unsafe way. An automobile is far more deadly (and expensive!) than an oscilloscope but with proper use and practice we all get accustomed to using them safely every day.

Where I used to work, one of the tests I ran would simulate a lightning strike on mains power lines and used 20,000 volts at high current to see if the unit being tested would fail or not. There was a strict set of steps to follow to do the tests safely and I am still here today. One thing I learned was to always keep one hand in my pocket so there was no chance of touching two wrong connectors at once.

Where you are only using a bench supply there is no chance you will be seeing dangerous voltages. As has been mentioned before, there is a chance on damaging or destroying some component and not too long ago I forgot to disconnect the 12VDC from a circuit board I was making changes on before unsoldering some part and heard a “pop” which I knew was bad. I had destroyed an integrated circuit that cost $60USD and I had been aging it on power for months.

As the saying goes: “I have learned from my mistakes and do not repeat them; but find new ones every day.”

[rstofer]

this point my translator does not explain it well to me:
connect an ordinary probe to the mains live or neutral (either the probe's signal or shield
?

For probe HV, I don't need them, as I said I'll stay away from high voltage    (I hope not to happen by mistake ..)
Yes for my test as a beginner I will use my 30vdc bench power supply (classic PS-305D)
 

It is specifically dealing with the use of differential probes for ground referenced mains and high voltage work.  A standard x1 probe is a really bad idea.  This has been discussed several times in this thread.

There a great future in probing 5V microcontroller circuits and 12V (or +-15V) audio circuits.  Make sure to set the current limit very low on your PS.  Set it as low as possible consistent with maintaining the output voltage plus a little bit to cover surges.  The current limit on my Rigol DP832 is my favorite feature.  Before I bought the Rigol, I used small wall warts.  These too provide limited energy and that's a good thing.

[CharlotteSwiss]

To learn something you can first read a description of the steps of a procedure but until you actually physically go through all the steps you do not fully understand what you have to do and may miss some steps like making sure the probe switch is in 10X. Until you go through the steps it is all just words and you don’t know how important each step might be.

You have now marked your probes with the correct colored split rings to identify them for the correct channel input connector and have adjusted the compensation for each channel on 10X. You can now see that all these steps are important to identify the probe color with the trace color and display the trace waveform correctly. It might be a good idea at this point to review some of the videos on compensation that have been shown to reinforce what you have now learned and understand. Even if, as you say, you have more trouble with understanding English in videos that with written text, you will probably watch the videos and say: “Oh now I see why they did that!”

https://youtu.be/jzdqugRHoGo

Keep in mind that we have all gone through these steps to learn some procedures and some of us (who are slower to learn than others posting here  ) may have some scars to prove it.   

thanks arthur..
I had already seen that video twice, but I hadn't noticed that they said to set to 10x for compensation (as I said I struggle to understand spoken English, I add that English and Americans always speak damn fast) 
Now I also understood that normally the probes should be used on 10x (and not on 1x), I would have thought the opposite ..
This is also a security, if you carelessly support the tip on a point at 150v, only 15v arrive at the oscilloscope ...
Thanks for the help
 

It is specifically dealing with the use of differential probes for ground referenced mains and high voltage work.  A standard x1 probe is a really bad idea.  This has been discussed several times in this thread.
There a great future in probing 5V microcontroller circuits and 12V (or +-15V) audio circuits.  Make sure to set the current limit very low on your PS.  Set it as low as possible consistent with maintaining the output voltage plus a little bit to cover surges.  The current limit on my Rigol DP832 is my favorite feature.  Before I bought the Rigol, I used small wall warts.  These too provide limited energy and that's a good thing.

yes of course, now I have learned that I have to use probes on 10x. A curiosity: an example of when it is better to use the probe on 1x?
When I try to test the boards in troubleshooting with my bench power supply, I often set the current limit to be supplied in order not to damage
  thanks

---------------------------------------

I lost a few hours in studying the probes, I understood that I can remove the cover and the tip is like that of the multimeter, that I can use a ground spring, the safety caps, I have verified with a multimeter that in fact the ground of the probes has continuity with the land line at home ..
But I have not understood what this accessory supplied with the probe could be for, it is a BNC adapter. I don't understand what could be useful to me!



 

[tggzzz]

Where you are only using a bench supply there is no chance you will be seeing dangerous voltages. As has been mentioned before, there is a chance on damaging or destroying some component and not too long ago I forgot to disconnect the 12VDC from a circuit board I was making changes on before unsoldering some part and heard a “pop” which I knew was bad. I had destroyed an integrated circuit that cost $60USD and I had been aging it on power for months.

Been there, done that. Only in my case I reversed the power supply connection, it cost a weeks wages, was owned by the client, and there were only two in the country. Instant confession helped

As the saying goes: “I have learned from my mistakes and do not repeat them; but find new ones every day.”

I taught my daughter it was OK to make new mistakes.

[ArthurDent]

"But I have not understood what this accessory supplied with the probe could be for, it is a BNC adapter. I don't understand what could be useful to me!"

If you remove the end of your probe with the spring hook from your probe you will be able to push the small end of this adapter on the pin sticking out the end of the probe. The large end of the adapter is like a BNC cable connecter (without the outer locking shell) to allow you to just push it on a connector without locking it in place and will allow you to connect your probe to the output of a lot of test equipment. If you have a function generator with a BNC output connector you can use this adapter to connect your scope probe to the generator output and still use the 10X setting. You could use a BNC to BNC cable between the two instead of your probe but it would only be straight through at 1X.

[CharlotteSwiss]

If you remove the end of your probe with the spring hook from your probe you will be able to push the small end of this adapter on the pin sticking out the end of the probe. The large end of the adapter is like a BNC cable connecter (without the outer locking shell) to allow you to just push it on a connector without locking it in place and will allow you to connect your probe to the output of a lot of test equipment. If you have a function generator with a BNC output connector you can use this adapter to connect your scope probe to the generator output and still use the 10X setting. You could use a BNC to BNC cable between the two instead of your probe but it would only be straight through at 1X.

now I'm on the mountain path for a hard workout, tonight after dinner I see if I understand correctly the use (about yes even without a translator) 
thank you 

[Labrat101]

  I hope you got the special Pink edition 
It's a good scope and should keep you happy
For many years. 
It has a lot of nice features and easy to use.
A scope is only as good as the user.
 And only tells the truth.

Rns

[tkamiya]

Siglent manual that comes with the unit doesn't tell you a lot of things.....

That's my only complaint on our scope.  Same with Rigol brand.  Same with Owon brand.  Seems all Chinese branded scopes come that way, with very brief instructions.  All 3 I have are that way.  In the mean time, new scopes are packed full of features and layers and layers of menu options.  Name brand scopes like Tektronix and HP came with volumes of manuals....  but we paid for it dearly for the privilege.

As far as I know, there is no "self destruct" buttons or menu options  , I just try things and reset it if I really screw it up.    About the only way you can screw it up is failed firmware update. 

[tkamiya]

As the saying goes: “I have learned from my mistakes and do not repeat them; but find new ones every day.”

I taught my daughter it was OK to make new mistakes.

Can I please have that expanded to OK to make same mistake TWICE? 

[ArthurDent]

tkamiya - "Can I please have that expanded to OK to make same mistake TWICE? "

Sure it's okay to make the same mistake twice - just don't admit it. 

[tkamiya]

Second mistake?    Who?    What?    Me?    Never! 

[rstofer]

As far as I know, there is no "self destruct" buttons or menu options  , I just try things and reset it if I really screw it up.    About the only way you can screw it up is failed firmware update. 

Maybe that's why there is an Auto button.  No matter how screwed up things have gotten, Auto will get a trace on the screen - assuming there is a signal, of course.
I like the Auto button even if it is considered an amateur move.

[james_s]

Maybe that's why there is an Auto button.  No matter how screwed up things have gotten, Auto will get a trace on the screen - assuming there is a signal, of course.
I like the Auto button even if it is considered an amateur move.

Nothing wrong with the auto button. I almost always use it initially, much of the time it gets the settings right on the first go or at least gets me in the right ballpark and I can dial it in with a few tweaks. If it doesn't work for what I'm trying to see then I set it up manually but there is little cost to trying auto first, ultimately it saves me a good bit of time in the long run.

[rstofer]

yes of course, now I have learned that I have to use probes on 10x. A curiosity: an example of when it is better to use the probe on 1x?
When I try to test the boards in troubleshooting with my bench power supply, I often set the current limit to be supplied in order not to damage
  thanks

1x might be useful when the voltage is very low and the frequency is also low.  None of these apply to me so I would rather have fixed 10x probes.  In fact, I bought a pair of these from Probe Master for my Analog Discovery 2.  It has very limited allowable input voltage and it is also expensive.  I want to protect it as best I can.

I would almost recommend a dab of epoxy on the switch to keep it in the 10x position forever.

[borjam]

I had already seen that video twice, but I hadn't noticed that they said to set to 10x for compensation (as I said I struggle to understand spoken English, I add that English and Americans always speak damn fast) 
Now I also understood that normally the probes should be used on 10x (and not on 1x), I would have thought the opposite ..
This is also a security, if you carelessly support the tip on a point at 150v, only 15v arrive at the oscilloscope ...
Thanks for the help

Roughly speaking, signal fidelity is better at 10x.

I lost a few hours in studying the probes, I understood that I can remove the cover and the tip is like that of the multimeter, that I can use a ground spring, the safety caps, I have verified with a multimeter that in fact the ground of the probes has continuity with the land line at home

The ground spring is useful for high frequency signals that would get distorted because of using the ground clip. Detaching the ground cable and clip and using the spring instead makes the probe behave like a "better quality cable".

..
But I have not understood what this accessory supplied with the probe could be for, it is a BNC adapter. I don't understand what could be useful to me!

Well, if you want to probe something on a connector it is really convenient instead of playing games with the ground clip and trying to keep the probe tip in the right position.

Also, some circuits may have purpose made test points that can have a connector. Or at least those test points can be designed to make probing with a ground spring easier.

[tkamiya]

When you attempt to measure something, you do that by diverting part of the signal to your measuring instrument.  That means it has a small but finite effect on the circuit and what you are measuring.

The major difference between 1x and 10x is that 10x has much higher impedance.  So it will divert less, and so it will affect your circuit less.  When you have a small and weak signal, if you use 1x, so much of the signal get sucked into your scope that circuit may not work.  Use 10x to lessen this effect.

Also, 10x mode has higher frequency bandwidth.  Our probes are designed up to 200MHz.  But that spec only applies to 10x mode.  In 1x, it's less.  (I don't remember what the limit was)  So most of us stay in 10x and only cautiously and when necessary, use 1x. 

[tggzzz]

As far as I know, there is no "self destruct" buttons or menu options  , I just try things and reset it if I really screw it up.    About the only way you can screw it up is failed firmware update. 

Maybe that's why there is an Auto button.  No matter how screwed up things have gotten, Auto will get a trace on the screen - assuming there is a signal, of course.
I like the Auto button even if it is considered an amateur move.

It will get a trace. Whether that is the one you want or need to see is a separate issue.

[tggzzz]

When you attempt to measure something, you do that by diverting part of the signal to your measuring instrument.  That means it has a small but finite effect on the circuit and what you are measuring.

The major difference between 1x and 10x is that 10x has much higher impedance.  So it will divert less, and so it will affect your circuit less.  When you have a small and weak signal, if you use 1x, so much of the signal get sucked into your scope that circuit may not work.  Use 10x to lessen this effect.

That's only true at low frequencies. All probes also have parallel capacitance. At 100MHz a 10Mohm//15pF probe has an input impedance of 100ohms! The breakpoint corner frequency is left as an exercise for the student

Even a so-called low impedance Z0 resistive divider probe has an input impedance of 500ohms.

[CharlotteSwiss]

I hope you got the special Pink edition 

I had requested a customized pink version ... however the pink of channel 2 is very nice 

Siglent manual that comes with the unit doesn't tell you a lot of things.....
About the only way you can screw it up is failed firmware update. 

oh well, meanwhile, I start learning what the manual says, all new things for me ..
For the firmware I shouldn't risk anything, I have the latest version

1x might be useful when the voltage is very low and the frequency is also low.  None of these apply to me so I would rather have fixed 10x probes.  In fact, I bought a pair of these from Probe Master for my Analog Discovery 2.  It has very limited allowable input voltage and it is also expensive.  I want to protect it as best I can.
I would almost recommend a dab of epoxy on the switch to keep it in the 10x position forever.

very clear, i will only use 10x. In fact it would be better to have 10x fixed probes. A drop of hot glue could be useful on the swich
 

The ground spring is useful for high frequency signals that would get distorted because of using the ground clip. Detaching the ground cable and clip and using the spring instead makes the probe behave like a "better quality cable".
Well, if you want to probe something on a connector it is really convenient instead of playing games with the ground clip and trying to keep the probe tip in the right position.
Also, some circuits may have purpose made test points that can have a connector. Or at least those test points can be designed to make probing with a ground spring easier.

ok for the use of the spring: however, using the spring, it is necessary to have the ground point and the measuring point very close together, otherwise it is impossible to place the tip and spring..
So in practice that bnc connector, for example if you want to measure another bnc connector with the probe, safely and easily.

The major difference between 1x and 10x is that 10x has much higher impedance.  So it will divert less, and so it will affect your circuit less.  When you have a small and weak signal, if you use 1x, so much of the signal get sucked into your scope that circuit may not work.  Use 10x to lessen this effect.
Also, 10x mode has higher frequency bandwidth.  Our probes are designed up to 200MHz.  But that spec only applies to 10x mode.  In 1x, it's less.  (I don't remember what the limit was)  So most of us stay in 10x and only cautiously and when necessary, use 1x. 

all roads lead to the 10x probe ... they shouldn't even have three meters with 1x swich, I would have preferred 10x fixed probes now that I understand how it works

If you remove the end of your probe with the spring hook from your probe you will be able to push the small end of this adapter on the pin sticking out the end of the probe. The large end of the adapter is like a BNC cable connecter (without the outer locking shell) to allow you to just push it on a connector without locking it in place and will allow you to connect your probe to the output of a lot of test equipment. If you have a function generator with a BNC output connector you can use this adapter to connect your scope probe to the generator output and still use the 10X setting. You could use a BNC to BNC cable between the two instead of your probe but it would only be straight through at 1X.

ok, now I understand what it's for, in fact I tried to put it on the tip of the probe and it's perfect. In practice it is used to measure with the oscilloscope BNC outputs positioned on other instruments or on circuits, to see the wave generated for example.
thank you 

[tkamiya]

By the way....  for applications I could have used 1x, I use BNC coax and directly connect it to DUT (device under test = stuff you are measuring).  It's more sensible thing to do for my application.  Then since our Siglent does not have 50 ohm termination, use a Tee and terminate it.  1x does have its use.  Some of my probes are fixed 10x.

Now you are well versed on probes, you might want to study up on AC and DC coupling on your Siglent.  It's important you get this right for many types of measurement.

[tautech]

Now you are well versed on probes, you might want to study up on AC and DC coupling on your Siglent.  It's important you get this right for many types of measurement.

Yep and a quite simple exercise to see how AC input coupling removes the signals DC component is using the probe compensation signal on both channels but have one channel AC coupled.

[CharlotteSwiss]

Now you are well versed on probes, you might want to study up on AC and DC coupling on your Siglent.  It's important you get this right for many types of measurement.

Yep and a quite simple exercise to see how AC input coupling removes the signals DC component is using the probe compensation signal on both channels but have one channel AC coupled.

ehmmm 
you are overestimating my skills, I did not understand what it is ... but continuing to read eim manual I guess I will get there..I am still on the first pages, where they explain the keys.. 

Instead, I was thinking that when the manual explains the vertical-horizontal adjustments of the wave, instead of measuring on a real circuit, I could practice with the 1khz square wave of the compensation output for the probes ... I will play with that wave , I hope it's a nice idea
 

[tautech]

Now you are well versed on probes, you might want to study up on AC and DC coupling on your Siglent.  It's important you get this right for many types of measurement.

Yep and a quite simple exercise to see how AC input coupling removes the signals DC component is using the probe compensation signal on both channels but have one channel AC coupled.

ehmmm 
you are overestimating my skills, I did not understand what it is ... but continuing to read eim manual I guess I will get there..I am still on the first pages, where they explain the keys.. 

Instead, I was thinking that when the manual explains the vertical-horizontal adjustments of the wave, instead of measuring on a real circuit, I could practice with the 1khz square wave of the compensation output for the probes ... I will play with that wave , I hope it's a nice idea
 

There are many clues about scope settings and waveforms right on the display. 

2 pointers, the channel 0V pointer (left side) and its real value displayed in the channel tab.
The other pointer, the trigger level (right side) and its real value displayed in the Trigger tab.

The 1 KHz probe compensation square wave is ~3V p-p, that is 0-3V in amplitude clearly shown with a DC channel input coupling waveform as 3 graticules above the 0V position with 1V/div sensitivity settings.
Engage AC input coupling and the same signal remains but now represented as -1.5 to +1.5V.

An important feature all scopes have and important to know how it works by removing the DC component of the signal and when to use it.

[CatalinaWOW]

Using the calibration signal for learning purposes is great.  But one of the most important arts in oscilloscope use is learning to trigger the scope the way you want it.  There are many choices in the triggering menus, all there because they help in some application.  Usually when you are looking the signal is imperfect in various ways (it is often why you are looking).  And those imperfections can have a strong effect on triggering.  So start learning with the calibration signal, but plan to move on soon to real signals.  The sound output of your computer can be programmed to generate many, many signals, which defects of your choice, so it is another great option.  Make up an audio plug to BNC jumper (use two BNC tails on a stereo plug for best results).  It is a simple little project that will find much use over time.