Just getting started, but a question about first Oscilloscope/Accesories

[cerjzc]

I watched Dave's nice intro on the DS1054Z from Jan 2015 and will probably be picking one of those up soon, but had a question about additional accessories needed.  I see at tequipment.net they offer the scope alone or  there are options for getting it with a few extra pieces (kit1/kit2).  With having nothing to start with are either of these "Kits" things that I would most certainly need right away or things that are not needed too often or only in special cases.  I haven't yet watched the 2 hour tutorial video on this forum, but plan on doing that tonight and apologize if those questions are answered in that video.

Thanks,
Jeff

[RobertHolcombe]

You wont need them immediately unless you intend to connect the scope to other test equipment, but may be worth the additional value if you're not on a tight budget. I'd go with kit 2 regardless because the price difference for the two 50 ohm terminators is almost nothing.

w2aew has lots of videos but this one in particular deals with when and why you should use terminators

[cerjzc]

Robert,

Thanks for the reply and the video link.  While a good portion of it was over my head I did learn quite a bit and can see at least kit 2 is a no brainer and would most likely get kit 1 although I currently don't know all of the uses of what's included.

Thanks

[Addicted2AnalogTek]

What type of projects do you intend to get into?

Since you said most of that video is over your head, it would be a great idea for you to buy some learning materials.  The main recommendations for these seem to be:

1 - The Art of Electronics
2 - Practical Electronics for Inventors - Paul Schertz and Simon Monk
3 - Engineering Mathematics by K.A. Stroud

-I downloaded them and read the first few pages to see which would suit me best, and by far "Practical Electronics for Inventors" is the ideal choice for me.  Not only can you get it for approx $25usd, but it starts out assuming the reader knows nothing about the subject.
-I had initially tried to teach myself by just digging into a scope repair... but after a short bit and massive frustration, I realized that it was crucial to build a knowledge base of the theory, basic circuits, interactions, etc.  Be wise and learn from my mistakes!

Unless you need the advanced functions of a digital scope for your initial projects, it is definitely best to pick up an old analog scope for around $50 and learn how to use it properly.  That way you have a good understanding of the basic functions of a scope when you make the jump to a digital scope (and don't get into the habit of pressing the "auto"set button! which makes the scope attempt to set everything up for you..) 
-Also, Dave actually strongly recommends an analog scope for those new to scopes.-


Note:  downloading copyrighted materials is illegal.  The only times that I do so are when I want to 'sample' a product to see if it's the right purchase for me.  Not only does buying the product support the creators, but it gives you a much better quality item that will last.  Book scans are typically low quality with very poor image quality, so the actual paper book is always a far better choice. 

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, what should you get, more or less in order ( = what will you use most):

A computer (you already have one or .. how are you reading this)
Books to read up on this stuff (free pdf's are fine).
Basic tools (wire cutters, pilers, screw drivers ...)
Bench power supply
DVM / multimeter
Clip leads, cables, wires (RS-232 etc ...)
A *good* soldering iron
Another power supply if the first one is not multi output
Basic ESD protection for a work area
Some sort of microscope / magnifier / googles to look at really small stuff

If you don't have that list pretty much under control, stop and put your money into that list.

A scope with at least a set of probes.
At least one more dvm. Net result should be a portable one and a bit fancier bench unit.
Likely one more power supply

At that point you branch depending on what you want to do (as in get the stuff above covered first):

A signal or function generator (Audio / RF / Microwave/ logic / what do you want to do?)
A frequency counter
A logic analyzer
A pc board reflow setup
A spectrum analyzer (Audio / RF / Microwave ...)

You can quickly get into exotic stuff (again, after the basics above):

RF power meters
Network analyzers
Noise figure meters
Very fancy frequency counters
Audio distortion analyzers
Thermometers of various sorts
Data loggers
this list goes on and on and on.

The key point is not to get really excited running down to a big ticket item that is to far down the list. Get the basic stuff covered first. That way you will have a setup you can use. The alternative is a shiny piece of gear that just sits there while you wait for the bank account to fill back up again.

Bob

[cerjzc]

AddictedtoAnalogTek and Bob,

Thanks for your responses,  I will check out the books that you mention and I have been going through a couple Make  books and some Basic Stamp stuff as well.  I will check out the 3 options that you provided.  As to the equipment you mentioned Bob I have all of the initial list you provided including access to an analog scope that I have borrowed.  I do not have anything listed in your 2nd or 3rd list.   My background is around 30 years of computers, but have never dug in Electronics wise besides some cap repairs on monitors and a few other devices.  My son is getting into engineering club at school with some robot building and a few other things so we are starting to do some hobby stuff at home.  Including the Boe bot and the Paralaxx BASIC Stamp stuff.   I enjoy high tech toys and I won't be able to keep the other analog scope forever so I was looking for a new toy to start playing with and grow into as our knowledge grows.   I appreciate all of the guidance so far and any other input anyone has.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Shock]

I want to get an analog one, if that ment I would learn more. I looked on ebay but they are well over $100   ... Sorry i dont know enough to answer

You can pick up a Rigol DS1054Z for about $375 or so delivered, so if you have the budget skip the analog. Don't rush into just buying any oscilloscope even a new one just for the sake of it, otherwise it will sit there idle on the bench.

No matter how hard some people will throw their hands in the air in objection, you won't learn anything that will specifically justify an analog over a digital oscilloscope and once you understand the basics is easy to work between them.

[exe]

Any scope is better than no scope. I'm surviving with a single channel toyish DIY scope   Before buying an analog one be sure you really understand the benefits you will get with it. There are not that many reasons to buy bulky and heavy analog scopes. As I understand, common reasons to do so: 1) good price (sometimes even for free) 2) good specs (say, bandwidth) if it's a decent unit.

[tggzzz]

I won't be able to keep the other analog scope forever so I was looking for a new toy to start playing with and grow into as our knowledge grows.

That is a key point.

Fundamentally, with a little imagination and a disciplined development process (do somehting tiny, test it, mutate it, test the mutation...) you can do a heck of a lot with thinking, a switch, an LED, a multimeter, and printf statements. A scope makes things faster and easier, but you still need the "thinking" and "disciplined development process".

As you gain experience, you will realise what and why you can't easily do with whatever is at hand, and that is the time to get the next piece of equipment.

All other things being equal, analogue scopes tend to be cheaper (old but still working) and less complex (particularly if important controls are buried deep in menus). Digital scopes do measurements for you (but you can do them yourself on analogue scopes), can capture one-off transients much better than analogue scopes, and can decode some protocols (but you can use printfs for that).

[rdl]

I won't speculate as to whether you need a scope or not, but if you decide to buy the DS1054Z get the 50 ohm adapter with it (kit2). Sooner or later it will be useful and the Rigol adapter is the cheapest I've seen brand new. Get it with the scope and the shipping is free.

[broz]

Jeff,

Just in case you didn't already know, tequipment.net has a special price for EEVblog members: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/special-price-for-eevblog-members/

[ez24]

Go through these posts, there are some good pdfs

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/electronics-primers-course-material-and-books/

[MarkF]

I would definitely get Kit 2 with the 50 ohm impedance adapter for connecting other equipment directly to your scope with coax cable.

If you have absolutely nothing else, consider some of the following for projects and connecting power supplies and meters instead of Kit 1:
   Elenco 9433 Prototype Board
   Elenco TL-16 Banana to Alligator Lead Set
   Elenco TL-16 Banana to Alligator Lead Set
   Elenco TL-7 BNC Cable

I have both banana lead sets and they are very good for the price.

Don't forget to ask for their EEVBlog discount!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, what are "big decision" items and what are "small decision" items:

Scopes, lab power supplies, signal generators all are a "hundreds of dollars new" sort of decision. A good bench meter from HP or Fluke is above that when new and probably still expensive used. Those are the decisions you need to plan.

A spool of wire is a pain when you run out. It is not a big deal cost wise (except shipping) to get another one. The same is true of banana  plugs, clip leads, tweezers, spools of solder and an almost infinite range of small items. These are the things that you buy as needed. Put in an order a month for project parts and supplies. Combine the shipping and it's not to bad.

Yes you can stock this and that. I would only go that route with surplus parts. You are buying things that you *might* use, so you buy some things that you never actually use.  If you pay full price (or close to it), you can buy just the things that you need. Yes, when you need (for example) a 1K ohm resistor, bump the order up to the next price break. You now are building an inventory of a part you *do* use.

Bob

[bson]

Pick up a breadboard kit and a power supply with CC mode.

Learn to use KiCAD - youtube is full of instructional videos; first for schematic capture and component creation, then for PCB layout and footprint creation, and gerber file generation.  Get into the habit of making prototype boards.  There's a learning curve here and you're better off spending time on this than assembling DIY kits off ebay (which won't teach you anything beyond how to use a soldering iron).

[MarkF]

Pick up a breadboard kit and a power supply with CC mode.

Learn to use KiCAD - youtube is full of instructional videos; first for schematic capture and component creation, then for PCB layout and footprint creation, and gerber file generation.  Get into the habit of making prototype boards.  There's a learning curve here and you're better off spending time on this than assembling DIY kits off ebay (which won't teach you anything beyond how to use a soldering iron).

Personally, I prefer DipTrace.  Very easy to learn.  Less than a day.  And if you use PCB Prototypes, they accept the DipTrace files directly.  No need to fool with making gerber files.  Also, 3D ContentCentral has many additional 3D models for free for viewing your PCB before getting it made.