Author Topic: Can a Incorrectly Connected IDE Cable Damage HD? (Read 3888 times)

bostonman · « **on:** October 28, 2020, 03:13:47 am »

Long story short, I have an old motherboard with IDE connections and may have connected the IDE cable to only half the row of pins on the hard drive.

Is it possible I damaged the motherboard?

Siwastaja · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2020, 08:25:57 am »

Damage is always possible, but if you didn't short anything, or cross connections to wrong pins, not very likely. Try it with a known-good drive and see if it works.

MosherIV · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2020, 08:49:35 am »

Hi

Agree with Siwastaja.

I have plugged IDE in upside down many times (cheap IDE cables with no polarization

) and both the controller and drive have survived.

Good luck.

digsys · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 am »

same as Mooshie ... also done it heaps of times with no faults generated. It is possible, depending on the P/Supply, but I've never heard of anyone doing it.

mikerj · « **Reply #4 on:** October 28, 2020, 11:24:41 am »

The old 3.5 inch floppy drives didn't like having the IDC connected backwards though, killed a couple of them doing that.

HB9EVI · « **Reply #5 on:** October 28, 2020, 11:36:57 am »

never got killed a controller or a HDD with reversing an IDE cable in my 27 years in IT; specially in the early years controllers often had no plastic frame around the connector, so it could easily happen to use wrong side...

LiftedTrace · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2020, 12:58:24 pm »

Few years back I worked on a machine that had a Siemens control on it. The drive died and a replacement was ordered. Since it was just a standard drive we decided to try and back it up so if it happened again we could by a much much cheaper off the shelf disk and put the image back on.
Well to my surprise Siemens decided to Put the disk in an enclosure that swapped two pins (can’t remember which ones) but the interface was standard IDE, so I was none the wiser.
I plugged it into my bay to begin cloning and ...... nothing? Not recognized as anything. Strange. Tried a bunch of stuff. Ended up throwing in the towel (for round one anyways).
I took the drive back to work and we tried to install it and it was DEAD! Hahaha.
Thanks a lot Siemens.

Long story short, egg all over face, they orders another drive at a very high price, and that’s when we looked further into what happened and found the swapped wires.

Got the second one cloned and all was well.

So I could say hooking up a drive wrong could damage it or the board. 😔

greenpossum · « **Reply #7 on:** October 28, 2020, 01:00:41 pm »

Normal 40/80 IDE cable just has signal and ground lines, no power lines. So at worst you are shorting the output of some line drivers and they can survive that sort of event.

bostonman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 28, 2020, 01:57:32 pm »

This is a motherboard inside an oscilloscope (I'm dealing with other scope issues on the HP site but thought to ask about incorrect connections on here).

The drive is a SSD with a mSATA board inside and a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter. The drive is seen in BIOS (along with any other drive I connect), but the system is not seeing a boot device.

At one point I believe that I plugged in only the bottom (or top) rows of pins (22) to the adapter and/or drive. I'm uncertain when the scope began this issue, but initially when I got it, Windows booted. Now I can't figure out what is wrong and thought to ask about incorrectly connected IDE cables.

HB9EVI · « **Reply #9 on:** October 28, 2020, 02:07:24 pm »

so I got it right, that you have sata-to-pata chip in the msata case, right?
if that's the case, I would replace that case/adapter; they are readily available from several suppliers and don't cost much bucks. It seems to me to be the most likely culprit in that setup

bostonman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 28, 2020, 02:26:45 pm »

I've tried different drives, adapters, and IDE cables (even used a 3.5" directly to the IDE cable).

On a side note, the 2.5" to 3.5" adapter is just a pin-to-pin without any components. In any case, I'm more concerned about whether the motherboard got damaged than the drive or adapter.

It seems the motherboard should be fine though, so back to the drawing board.

amyk · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2020, 12:27:08 am »

Look at the pinout to see what you did.

Quote from: mikerj on October 28, 2020, 11:24:41 am

The old 3.5 inch floppy drives didn't like having the IDC connected backwards though, killed a couple of them doing that.

I've never killed one that way, but it does show very obviously when you do --- the light stays on.

Of course, if you manage to reverse the power connector, you'll put 12V on the 5V rail, which will definitely destroy a lot.

jonslab · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2020, 02:53:43 am »

I thought IDE cables have a notch or something in the middle and can not be done the other way!

greenpossum · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2020, 03:12:09 am »

Quote from: jonslab on October 29, 2020, 02:53:43 am

I thought IDE cables have a notch or something in the middle and can not be done the other way!

A tab. After PC designers got wiser.

helius · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2020, 04:00:46 am »

An important detail in reply #8 is that the connector has 44 pins (2.5" IDE). This connector does carry power and so it could have caused damage to the drive.

bostonman · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2020, 12:49:47 pm »

I'll have to check things better, but, I don't care about the drive per se, I'm more concerned about the motherboard.

In this case, I've tried other drives and having booting problems. I've tried different cables, different drives, etc... without success.

amyk · « **Reply #16 on:** October 29, 2020, 11:51:32 pm »

"The drive is seen in BIOS" = the interface is almost certainly OK.

Even if it's inside a scope, if it's a standard PC architecture, it should be possible to boot a basic OS like DOS -- so I would take an image-backup of the drive, write a DOS boot sector and kernel to it, and see if that boots to a C:\> prompt.

If this is a replacement drive, it may be too large for the BIOS. Common limits are at 528MB, 2GB, 8GB, and 128GB.

m k · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2020, 06:27:38 pm »

Quote from: bostonman on October 28, 2020, 01:57:32 pm

The drive is seen in BIOS (along with any other drive I connect), but the system is not seeing a boot device.

Is the system messaging something?

Have you used the original drive in bulk Windows?
Dump its track 0 here.

E,
bulk

m k · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2020, 08:54:54 am »

Quote from: m k on October 30, 2020, 06:27:38 pm

Quote from: bostonman on October 28, 2020, 01:57:32 pm
The drive is seen in BIOS (along with any other drive I connect), but the system is not seeing a boot device.
Have you used the original drive in bulk Windows?

If not then don't.
There is a distant possibility that Windows use will overwrite someting non standard and prevent its latter use.
Like HP serial number or someting similar.

Nominal Animal · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2020, 07:07:59 pm »

The +5V pins on the 44-pin IDE connector are in the same column:

If one were to connect the lower half of the cable to the upper pins, the problem is that five signal lines on the drive side would be tied to ground.
If one were to connect the upper half of the cable to the lower pins, the problem is that five signal lines on the host side would be tied to ground.
Other than those, it would just be wrong signals, using the same voltage levels and logic.

I don't know how these are implemented in hardware: should/could/would grounding the signal lines cause damage (to either side)? I dunno; me software-uncloid.

Shifting the connector by a single pin right (leaving the leftmost [bottommost in the image] pins not connected) is the most dangerous scenario, in my opinion, as then you'd short circuit +5V to ground. Depending on the motherboard and power supply, it might damage the tracks on the motherboard where pin 40 is connected to a ground plane; the short circuit current could be several amps.

Booting problems can be caused by faulty IDE-to-media adapters, or it could be a motherboard problem. No way to know, without testing. (That's why I suggested getting a cheap alternative adapter, like a cable-only adapter, to rule out problem sources one by one, in the other thread.)

bostonman · « **Reply #20 on:** November 01, 2020, 03:06:47 pm »

I plan to do more with this scope hopefully this week; I haven't had a chance to address this issue.

The message I'm getting is in the attached.

I've even removed the CMOS battery to reset BIOS in case something accidentally changed.

m k · « **Reply #21 on:** November 01, 2020, 03:47:26 pm »

I'm quite sure the final text is from disk boot.

The order is BIOS->MBR->disk boot->files

It means that the system is reading the drive and its locical disk but can't find suitable files.

Nominal Animal · « **Reply #22 on:** November 01, 2020, 07:47:30 pm »

Quote from: m k on November 01, 2020, 03:47:26 pm

I'm quite sure the final text is from disk boot.

I disagree. Award BIOS displays "DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER" when it cannot find any bootable devices, or the bootable device has an invalid Master Boot Record.

amyk · « **Reply #23 on:** November 01, 2020, 11:01:16 pm »

Yes, that message comes from the BIOS.

As I mentioned in my previous reply, write a basic boot sector to the drive and see if it will load it.

(Also make sure the drive is set to master or slave appropriately.)

Mechatrommer · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2020, 02:17:48 am »

Quote from: bostonman on November 01, 2020, 03:06:47 pm

The message I'm getting is in the attached.

where is your bootable cd lad?

Quote from: Mechatrommer on October 25, 2020, 03:57:30 am

Quote from: bostonman on October 24, 2020, 01:23:00 pm
At the last minute (after about two-hours), ddrescue aborted and stated I didn't have enough drive space....
I hate to waste money buying a bigger drive for an old laptop I seldom use.
maybe you dont have too much files to care about. we know backup is essential so we tend to keep some extra drives to do the backup/recovery work.


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