Author Topic: 3D Printer yet?  (Read 359455 times)

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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #475 on: April 04, 2020, 01:34:18 pm »
You just made a basic sweeping generalization fallacy. Shame on you. There are lots of good YT tutorials.
Well, shame on me, but I honestly haven't seen any good YT tutorials, on any topic.

The good ones I do see are experiments, logs (this is how I did it, and how it turned out; and what I would do differently now), discussions and talks, reports, reviews, lectures/sessions and presentations.

The good tutorials I know of are written (with lots of pictures, or even better, very short video clips), follow a structure similar to a tree trunk, with a short branches (as links to in-depth material, and explaining why the main trunk/branch was chosen for the tutorial).  The rate of progress is dictated by the reader, and not the presenter.  Typically, the reader is expected to read the tutorial once over to get an overall picture and understand the structure of the tutorial, then re-read it at their own pace, jumping within the tutorial and background material as they see fit.  It is very difficult to do the same with video because of the forced linearity of video; and almost impossible to do it properly in Youtube, where jumping to specific moments within the movie is basically up to the user dragging the progress bar to a specific point.

Now do you want to turn this thread into a debate over YT or get back to the topic?
What, and leave your unfounded (and in my opinion, wholly incorrect) assertions unchallenged?  I'm sure you'd prefer that..  ::)
 
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Online xrunner

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #476 on: April 04, 2020, 01:41:35 pm »
Well, shame on me, but I honestly haven't seen any good YT tutorials, on any topic.

That doesn't prove they don't exist. Do you know who Dave Jones is? Do you know he has YT tutorial videos. And shockingly enough a few (many) are good ... So does a physicist named Leonard Susskind, but I know it's all trash right?

Quote
The good ones I do see are experiments, logs (this is how I did it, and how it turned out; and what I would do differently now), discussions and talks, reports, reviews, lectures/sessions and presentations.

You aren't looking very hard then.

Quote
The good tutorials I know of are written (with lots of pictures, or even better, very short video clips), follow a structure similar to a tree trunk, with a short branches (as links to in-depth material, and explaining why the main trunk/branch was chosen for the tutorial).  The rate of progress is dictated by the reader, and not the presenter.  Typically, the reader is expected to read the tutorial once over to get an overall picture and understand the structure of the tutorial, then re-read it at their own pace, jumping within the tutorial and background material as they see fit.  It is very difficult to do the same with video because of the forced linearity of video; and almost impossible to do it properly in Youtube, where jumping to specific moments within the movie is basically up to the user dragging the progress bar to a specific point.

Same answers as above ...

Quote
What, and leave your unfounded (and in my opinion, wholly incorrect) assertions unchallenged?  I'm sure you'd prefer that..  ::)

Well every one has an opinion just like the hole in your lower backside.

Say - can you show us you 3D printer and some of the things you've printed and some of the mods you have done to it? I'd really like to see for myself.  :popcorn:
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #477 on: April 04, 2020, 02:21:07 pm »
Well, shame on me, but I honestly haven't seen any good YT tutorials, on any topic.
That doesn't prove they don't exist.
No, but asserting they do, without providing a single example, is just inane.  If you want to be like that, please go preach in a church.

Do you know who Dave Jones is? Do you know he has YT tutorial videos.
EEVblog videos are tutorials?  I always thought of them as off-the-cuff examinations/explanations/sessions, not as tutorials per se.  (Note: I'm not being snarky or anything here, I'm being genuine here.)

Some of the videos David made did feel like attempts at tutorials for me, and they really were cringe-worthy.

With regards to 3D printing, the videos I've seen that are intended for beginners fall into two rough categories: uncritical adverts, and a mix of experience log, review, and tips-and-tricks.  Haven't come across anything I'd classify as an acceptable tutorial.

Perhaps this is once again just a language issue?  Me fail English often, after all; but so do even native speakers.

I am using the wiktionary definition, i.e. "a lesson prepared so that a student can learn at their own speed" or "an interactive class taught by a tutor to students".

So does a physicist named Leonard Susskind, but I know it's all trash right?
Most of his videos I've seen are recorded lectures, and I've enjoyed a couple of his talks and discussions, too.  I can't seem to find any tutorials he's made; could you point out one to me, so I can better understand what you are referring to?

Say - can you show us you 3D printer and some of the things you've printed and some of the mods you have done to it? I'd really like to see for myself.  :popcorn:
My Anet A8 is in pieces, as I'm working on enclosing it with a metal shell and plastic sheets (polycarbonate and PMMA), so I can add activated carbon filtering.  I live in a studio apartment, and the fire alarm is too sensitive for me to use the printer without it; I can even trigger it by frying bacon in my kitchenette.  Let me know if you really need images of the parts, and my OpenSCAD design for the enclosure (using 40x20mm steel or aluminium tubing, 1.5mm or 2mm wall thickness).

As to actual prints, I don't have any.  I've worked on the software -- in particular, implementing true 3D cubic Bézier curve paths, with separate velocity control; the math of which is iterative but efficient (so not feasible on AVRs, but very feasible on ARMs for example) -- and lots more on 2D vinyl cutters driven using HPGL and Gcode.  As is typical for me, I am much more interested in the tool itself, than in what others use the tool for.  I can show you the first-generation Smoothieboard I have, to give you an idea of how long I've played with the software side.

However, I fail to understand how my complete inexperience in producing 3D prints (or even 2D vinyl decals!) is relevant to my opinion and experience in tutorials.

Have you ever taught a class at an university?  I have, I was a paid lecturer the first time over twenty years ago, myself in my twenties.  It was a department of Art Education too, with an emphasis on education, and while I don't have much formal education in education (pedagogy), I've worked with quite a few experienced professionals and discussed various ways of making the materials more available and efficient for the learners -- not just then, but regularly at my current university (my own field is computational materials physics).  Admittedly, my focus has always been adults and not children; wrt. children, I've only discussed and developed materials for teachers to use when teaching children, never worked on materials intended directly for children to use.

Perhaps that is the cause of the failure here; I just cannot reach the segment of the audience you belong to, xrunner?  ???
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 02:38:27 pm by Nominal Animal »
 

Online xrunner

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #478 on: April 04, 2020, 02:23:02 pm »
OK - I'm outta this thread for a good while. Good luck with your printer mnementh, I wish you luck.

But when I try to help someone, merely suggest there are decent tutorials regarding how to set up extruder steps for G Code and/or Marlin firmware on You Tube, and get pedantic arguments about daring to give such bad advice, that's my cue to get out. I got a lot of better things to do with my time (like use my own 3D printer).

Best wishes!
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #479 on: April 04, 2020, 03:04:15 pm »
Well, there is a big difference in saying
    (see tutorials at Youtube)
and then being annoyed when others get all :o, and saying something like
    The M92 command, used to set axis steps per unit, for Marlin-derived firmwares is well documented here
.

I'm just saying there is a reason why the former gets one a bit twitchy, seeing as it is akin to looking for a nice needle in a haystack filled with all sorts of rusty nails covered in feces; and why it would be nice if we'd bother to something like the latter instead: links to text documents, not to Youtube.

(And it is not that the latter is less work for readers, either; a direct link is not necessary, a link to Marlin documentation would work just as well.  (It is not easy to find it, though: they're hidden under Help > G-code > pick any one to see the index.)  To find a good video, you need to watch or skim several, and that takes time, and considerable network bandwidth.  I have only a 10 Mbit/s connection myself.  Even if you had included a link to a good video explaining the issue, it would take a relatively long time to watch it through.  In comparison, a link to text, where one can skip sections they are already familiar with in fractions of a second, is not only faster, but more efficient, too; especially if one can add a browser bookmark to that particular page.)

xrunner obviously has useful practical experience people like me (and perhaps mnementh, too?) could use, and do value.
The only thing I object to is telling people to go search youtube for references.

Maybe I was being snarky, and that is unnecessary; apologies for that, xrunner. 
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #480 on: April 04, 2020, 04:28:43 pm »
:o

mnem
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Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #481 on: April 04, 2020, 06:01:00 pm »
      

For anyone who cares; here's where I am in my current round of fettling. I've done some cable management in the controller box to make a clear path of airflow around the stepper drivers. It's hard to see, but yes there is plenty of room for exhaust flow in the slots under that bundle of wires.  :-+

Topside, I've reassembled the OE hotend complete with new CReality Bowden tube (OE was the same stuff, but getting pretty ragged from disassembly/reassembly), installed the cogged idlers on X & Y, and installed this heavier locking 7A-rated JST VH connector in an attempt to upgrade the plug-in connector over the 3A-rated locking JST-SM connector CReality uses. It seemed like the perfect choice when I was rummaging around in my parts bin; now, not so much.
:-\

Time to drop back & punt, I think...

mnem
 :-/O
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 06:03:05 pm by mnementh »
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Online Monkeh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #482 on: April 04, 2020, 06:14:18 pm »
Is it a 12V or 24V system? If it's 24V the little SM is totally fine. For 12V.. honestly, fine too, it shouldn't be exceeding 3A for any duration.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #483 on: April 04, 2020, 07:08:46 pm »
I have other... plans.  >:D

mnem
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #484 on: April 05, 2020, 12:14:53 am »
Now do you want to turn this thread into a debate over YT or get back to the topic?
What, and leave your unfounded (and in my opinion, wholly incorrect) assertions unchallenged?  I'm sure you'd prefer that..  ::)

xrunner, you are making this hard for yourself, just ignore trolls and do not respond to them at all under any circumstances. They rely on the human desire of trying to have the last word, you will not win.
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #485 on: April 05, 2020, 12:32:56 am »
Thanks for the wise words, Dave.  :-+

I try to live by two basic rules:

1) Don't bother anyone.
2) Don't be too easily bothered.

I judge myself at the end of the day by how well I've adhered to these two tenets.  ;)

mnem
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Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #486 on: April 05, 2020, 12:39:40 am »


'lectric s'ghetti, anyone...?  :-DD

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Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #487 on: April 05, 2020, 02:11:25 am »
You could buy a similar mess for $180 AUD or spend $200 AUD on a new one without the mess :palm:  :palm:

eBay auction: #164095873684 or in Australian 'tell him he's dreamin....'

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Online Monkeh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #488 on: April 05, 2020, 02:26:29 am »
I gotta ask, what's all the twisted pair spaghetti for?
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #489 on: April 05, 2020, 02:48:49 am »
Balanced line signal transmission?   ;D
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #490 on: April 07, 2020, 11:59:25 pm »
When Last We Looked in on Our Intrepid TinkerDwagon...

      

... he was up to his elbows in 'lectric s'ghetti.    


Well... it got worse before it got better; I managed to tame the tanglemonster and get my PDB installed, but the job looked like a total booty fab. :palm: Woke up this morning and said to myself "Self... (because that's what I call myself) ...You can do better than that jank shit."

          

So I set about making something custom for the application instead of just ghetto-engineering a generic leftover PDB from one of my quadcopter builds. A little current protection, some stabilization caps before & after the D-Sun MP1584EN buck converter, & moved the ballast resistors to the perfboard instead of floating in the air like the Flying Nun.  ::) That empty space there between the buck converter and pin header is "reserved for future upgrades". ;)

   

          

"Ballast Resistors... for WHAT?" you say. Well, there was a reason for all that 'lectric s'ghetti and buck converter; I needed to add some circuits for... stuff.  >:D I had me some COB LEDs I wanted to install so I can see what my printer is working on, and I wanted to get a 12V rail up at the hotend so I wouldn't be locked into just 24V fans anymore. For those who were wondering... the stranded Cat5 twisted pair was just the most convenient source of suitable wire, that's all.  :-//

So, a little clear silicone sealant and my COB LED strip was mounted overhead; I stashed the wires in the frame channel under some 11mm wide strips of blister-pack plastic snapped into the v-slot on the left upright. :-+  The COB LED on the hotend (it is a single panel about 1.5mm thin harvested from a LED fog light bulb found in the street) required a little drilling to keep the wires away from the heatblock; yes the holes are chamfered both sides to prevent nicking the insulation. This is not my first rodeo. :P

       

On the hotend, I made a block of 0.100" pin header; aside from the 4x2 region dedicated to hotend power, there is a row of pins reserved for PWM signal sandwiched between a row of pins configured as a 24V(+) and another configured as a 12V(+) rail. This makes it possible to use either a 12V fan or a 24V fan just by plugging into the correct (+) rail. On the (frontmost) row opposite the 12V(+) rail is a (GND) rail; this allows any 12V accessory I may wish to plug in at the hotend as well. For now, I'm using it as-is; once I have my 'Fang printed and installed, I'll draft up and print a little enclosure for the header block to cover up the ugly wires and maybe incorporate a strain relief. :-+

   

And finally, the money shots: 

LIT AF.  8)


mnem
 :-/O
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 05:11:00 pm by mnementh »
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Offline olkipukki

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #491 on: April 08, 2020, 09:51:35 pm »
Not easy to find a place for new "gadget"...   ???

3D printer can save a day!

10 min to design and 2.5 hours - print two parts, job done  :-+

How it looks on a screen

966178-0

Doesn't look so shiny in reality

966170-1


Finally, fit nicely  8)

966174-2
 
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Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #492 on: April 09, 2020, 03:56:32 am »
      



Well, upon first actual use of the new LED lighting, I discovered that the COB LED on the hotend was just unusable. It was located ahead of the nozzle, and too pinpoint bright to serve the purpose; so I flipped it around and added a bit of diffuser plastic. Quite usable now; it illuminates what the nozzle is working on without being blinding bright.  :-+ This afternoon's project was to design and print an enclosure for the header block to hide away all the ugly exposed wiring.  :-+

mnem
 :=\
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 04:23:38 am by mnementh »
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Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #493 on: April 09, 2020, 05:47:24 pm »
And Now For Something Completely... Relevant.

                      <-Lookit dat strength/layer adhesion->       (0.4mm nom)      (1.0mm nom)      (1.0mm nom)      (38mm nom)      (12.0mm nom)      (36.0mm nom)      (10.0mm nom)      (6.0mm nom)

A real-world 3DP application and results.

I've cluttered this thread a fair bit with my misadventures modding the eff out of this Ender 3 clone printer; while I'm waiting for all my genuine Ender 3 parts to arrive for the "quiet fans Fang mod", I figured  I'd return it to mostly stock so I could get a baseline of performance of the OEM hotend/extruder. Above is a small part I deliberately designed with small tolerances to see if it could make the part as drafted. Pretty damn good, if I do say so myself.  :-+

At this point, aside from LED lighting bling etc chronicled above, unit is stock except for these mods which actually affect performance (mostly done at assembly):

$0   - (Plus an hour or two fettling with scraps of aluminum I had on hand) Strain reliefs at back of heated bed & on hotend

$0   - (Plus an hour or less fettling with tearing down hotend and reassembling) Silicone grease/zinc oxide thermal paste on heater & thermistor cartridges
$0   - (Plus an hour or less fettling with extruder during assembly) Modding pivot on extruder lever with m3 x 30mm screw/nut from junk bin

$4   - (US$12/3 pieces) Zero-lash leadscrew nut on Z-axis

$1   - (US$4/25 pieces ) 5/16" (NOT 8mm) ball bearing in Z-coupler mod

$7    - Various nuts, screws, washers from local hardware

$30  - US$30 for decent (NOT the cheapest) Digital Calipers & Welder's Square from Princess Auto to make sure assembly is flat & square (CRITICAL fettling here)

(Figures from my First Impressions post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2974438/#msg2974438

US$205 Printer Kit

US$42  Above

US$247 Total (or $212/printer plus tools you should have on hand anyways if you're into 3DP) :-+


mnem
blep.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 06:41:49 pm by mnementh »
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Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #494 on: April 11, 2020, 06:23:28 am »
Now you have that one sorted @mnementh here is another whole level of pain up  :o Three Extruders, Three Bowdens, Six Couplings and Three Hot Ends to go wrong  :-DD

Bit tough to push @Brumby to have a go given the travel restrictions but anyone in the area have some unneeded Brain Cells want to use them? eBay auction: #114181796675


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Offline Brumby

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #495 on: April 11, 2020, 08:32:59 am »
Wollongong ... Yeah, that would be a bit tough to get away with at the moment.  Besides, I still haven't fired up the one I already have yet.  :-[
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #496 on: April 12, 2020, 12:42:35 am »
Hells yeah, if it were anywhere near me I'd be all over it like a Wookiee with a welder.   :-DD   But a bit out of my traveling range fo sho.  ;) You should get it just for spares, man. :-+

mnem
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Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #497 on: April 12, 2020, 03:22:20 pm »
Now you have that one sorted @mnementh here is another whole level of pain up  :o

LOLOL... not so sure it's "sorted"; I just have it working like when it was new again. Still noisy as hell, and still not as good as xrunner's polygons.   

Trying to figure out what to do to see how it's fucking up with the V6 heat block on there... maybe stick a thermistor on there to monitor the temp of the heat break (cringe) right at the base of the heat sink...?

Good idea, bad idea...?

mnem
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #498 on: April 12, 2020, 09:42:47 pm »
Looks like Ender has announced the Ender 3 V2. It has some of the common upgrades and seems to include most of the Pro model.



https://www.creality3dofficial.com/products/ender-3-v2-3d-printer
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #499 on: April 13, 2020, 03:29:48 pm »
Interesting, but I'll hold off judgement until we can see what they actually deliver in a couple months; the pre-hype is pretty much worthless.  |O

Mostly it looks like the glass surface and silent control board (I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same LONGER clone MKS GEN V1.4 board) I already have in my clone E3 with some cheap plastic adjusters and other mostly gewgaw-type crap tacked on. People are already asking "Where are the REAL upgrades?!?" on this $290 "upgraded model" with 2-4 week shipping. :-//

They clearly dropped the ball on their "new improved UI"; it looks to me like they're just trying to sell off all those color screen/knob UI "upgrade" kits that were already obsolete before they were manufactured in this day of touch-screens like mine. :palm:

The plastic hotend cover and "50dB super-silent printing" they promise suggests they MIGHT have finally gotten rid of at least the 30mm "screamin' Mimi fan" on the hotend, but probably still one or more 40mm fans, so "meh...?" on that "upgrade" as well. 50dB is NOT what I would call silent, fer sherr. ::)

Like I said, we need to see what they actually deliver to be able to make a proper evaluation; this industry is a cesspool of hype and misinformation on its best day. ;) What I'm seeing right now is not exactly filling me with excitement at this price stratum.  :P

   

mnem
moo?
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