SoftBank considering selling ARM

[Bud]

CEO is a seasonal position. Likely the guy has little clue about microprocessors.  Chances are he was selling chinese noodles or persian rugs before being assigned to run ARM china.

[floobydust]

It's not a Benny Hill episode, it's just IP theft in progress. ARM was severing ties with huawei in light of the US export ban.

"Allen Wu, chief executive of Arm China, has refused to step down from the joint venture after being sacked by Arm and other investors.
"Arm China has since engaged in a social media campaign to distance itself from its UK parent company. This week, it posted a letter on WeChat signed by 200 staff claiming it was a “strategic asset” for China and urging Beijing to “protect it”.
"The employees said: “We plead with the government to pay attention to the turbulence Arm China is facing now, and intervene to protect this strategic asset.”
"They added Arm China was a “Chinese-controlled joint venture that should abide by Chinese laws”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/07/29/arm-accuses-china-boss-creating-culture-fear-boardroom-row-escalates/

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

There's a typo: "Chinese ARM division goes rouge"



And TSMC: a(nother) reason why the CCP wants to seize Taiwan asap.

[kaz911]

Careful with the kool-aid SoftBank Vision Fund Posts $17.7 Billion Loss on WeWork, Uber  "The losses are the worst ever in the company’s 39-year history." "SoftBank under-reported FY2019 income by $380 million"  OOPS.

I'm not a fan of mega-funds because the money they toss around is simply too big, too fast. Great for scandals, scams- but ultimately they wreck companies because either a stupid acquisition gets carelessly unloaded (ARM?) or they throw billions into a stupid business model (WeWork) that is all hype and fiction. The greed needs to slow down and look at the business case, the fundamentals instead of how to spew cash to instantly make cash.

I think ARM is massively overvalued- because the core is in trillions of devices does not mean it's a cash cow.

ARM Co-Founder: Sale to Nvidia Would Be a Disaster  "It’s one of the fundamental assumptions of the ARM business model that it can sell to everybody” BBC Dr. Hermann Hauser

You are mixing up some things. SoftBank != SoftBank Vision Fund.

SoftBank is an LP in SVF like the other investors.  And check just the value growth of Alibaba... Just this year market cap has gone up by at least $100B - of which SB owns 25%.  So unrealized gains of $25B just in this year to date.

When you invest and own companies - losses are part of the story.

And valuations: The value of a company is what another company will pay for it. There is no math behind it. There can be estimates based on previous experience but how much is a 80%+ market share worth? That is not something most analysts would like to actually put a value on.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Capitalism has no patriot factor in it.

That's very true. We keep buying an ever increasing % of goods from you, have dismantled our industries, and are borrowing to pay your goods with credits => deficits => our public (and private) debts are through the roof and keep growing. I'm not sure for how much longer can this go on.

[coppice]

Capitalism has no patriot factor in it.

That's very true. We keep buying an ever increasing % of goods from you, have dismantled our industries, and are borrowing to pay your goods with credits => deficits => our public (and private) debts are through the roof and keep growing. I'm not sure for how much longer can this go on.

If you are in Turkey then your countryfolk have also gained a lot from assembling Chinese components and modules into consumer equipment for the EU market. That has built up a lot of industry in Turkey. The interactions between countries is complex.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

If you are in Turkey then your countryfolk have also gained a lot from assembling Chinese components and modules into consumer equipment for the EU market. That has built up a lot of industry in Turkey. The interactions between countries is complex.

But the macro economic indicators, don't tell a different story?

[coppice]

If you are in Turkey then your countryfolk have also gained a lot from assembling Chinese components and modules into consumer equipment for the EU market. That has built up a lot of industry in Turkey. The interactions between countries is complex.

But the macro economic indicators, don't tell a different story?

Isn't that mostly due mostly to political issues, and a massive drop in the value of the currency?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

I mean Europe and the USA, look at the debt figures, both public and private. Already through the roof and ever increasing. Except Germany: they're no fools.

Here's a spanish site to see the indicators: https://datosmacro.expansion.com/

For example:

[bsfeechannel]

You just found me a new avatar.

Is that a political statement?

[Marco]

ARM Co-Founder: Sale to Nvidia Would Be a Disaster  "It’s one of the fundamental assumptions of the ARM business model that it can sell to everybody” BBC Dr. Hermann Hauser

So who exactly would refuse to license SOCs from NVIDIA? AMD and perhaps Intel ... woopdedoo, what a huge change.

IMO Apple's huge lead on implementation is a much bigger danger to ARM's viability than NVIDIA owning it ... and perhaps NVIDIA could help decrease that lead.

[bsfeechannel]

You just found me a new avatar.

Is that a political statement?

Yes it is.

Isn't that against the forum rules?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

"1 year later - Did the Huawei ban work?"

[Simon]

I thought we were talking about ARM being sold off?

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

I thought we were talking about ARM being sold off?

In the video they talk about it too.

[MK14]

"1 year later - Did the Huawei ban work?"

Thanks, I liked watching that video. It doesn't sound too good for Huawei.
Although Huawei have the home Chinese market, their competitors, will be given a big boost, with easy access to the big, world-wide markets and access to everything they want to buy.
Russia/USSR had a similar situation (Cold war), which seemed to hinder their home grown companies success/products.

E.g. The East German Trabant, was just about the worst car ever. Made out of paper coated in plastic. A motorcycle engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant

The arm situation is complicated. Because it is not clear, who will take them over now. I guess whoever takes them over, it may cause controversy. I suppose some possible buyers, may actually improve arm, as a product and company.
But it would be equally easy, for some possible buyers, to end up causing arm difficulties, and lead to it diminishing in the future.

E.g. Microsoft buys arm, and then charges users a new 'improved' subscription service, where you pay them $5.99 a month, or the cpu disables itself automatically.
It also automatically sends your data stuff, back to Microsoft.
It also, seems to like doing forced updates, even if you are about to make a very important phone call.
Yes, if Microsoft bought arm, that would be good for every single person, in the world (who works or is a share holder, of Microsoft   ).

[bsfeechannel]

Isn't that against the forum rules?

You are not welcomed to come to post just to offend me.

Offend? That hasn't even crossed my mind. I just made a question whose answer is yes or no.

Go * yourself.

Ah! The Widlar salute. We are truly brothers in arms.

"1 year later - Did the Huawei ban work?"

Telecom, if I'm not mistaken, is the second largest market in the world (US$1.74 trillion). The largest is oil and gas (US$3.3 trillion). It's a dog-eat-dog business. It's impossible not to get governments involved.

[Marco]

The problem is, whether Nvidia will license ARM cores without CUDA cores and a corresponding hefty fee to other players?

I don't think they are planning for any other GPU architecture to be remotely competitive per mm2, per Watt or per dollar ... and I think they have the ability to deliver on that intent. They want to dominate mobile to offset the damage of AMD dominating consoles I think, disrupting the ability of ARM to serve existing niches price wise would not be conducive to that. They'll give the licensees a deal they wouldn't want to refuse even if they could.

Why should the CPU ISA be a tight noose for ARM licensees, but if GPU ISA becomes part of that noose for new licensees it's somehow fundamentally different? I just don't see it.

I don't particularly like increased vertical integration, because I like the competition and variety ... but I don't like Apple running ahead either. Better to have two big competitors than 1 premium one and a couple also rans competing for scraps. Of course if Apple decides they can't compete with NVIDIA and just gets a new license for their stuff it's back to square one, but oh well.

[kfnight]

Aieieiaeieiaieieieiie!!! Don't do it Jensen!

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-close-to-buying-arm-for-dollar40-billion-report

[Simon]

Why not? Obviously softbank just want the profit on the sale.

[coppice]

Why not? Obviously softbank just want the profit on the sale.

For Softbank its just an investment. For a silicon vendor, like nVidia, it is a fundamental, and almost certainly destructive, change to the industry. The RISC/V people must be rubbing their hands, and laughing at this prospect.

[olkipukki]

That's official now 

https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-to-acquire-arm-for-40-billion-creating-worlds-premier-computing-company-for-the-age-of-ai

[BravoV]

The RISC/V people must be rubbing their hands, and laughing at this prospect.

+1 

[daqq]

Oh bollocks.

[Simon]

So what does it mean for ARM µC's? shall I just go off and learn some other chip series?