Please MS just go to hell...

[PKTKS]

Joining the latest pieces and hints posted here and there...
Minimum requirements to "so they let you use your hardware" are

ABOVE AT LEAST an iCore i7 latest gizmo a latest Ryzen/EPYC allowed

Microsoft is also requiring a front-facing camera for all Windows 11 devices except desktop PCs from January 2023 onwards.


An absurd TPM 2.0 pre installed module for whatever hell knows for

Later on modifications on SYSTEMD to control block and loop devices so to track your data and storage medium

So combined the ability to run APKs and all systemd wayland shell distros
under control of WSL... all under their DRM TPM and supervision of your
property hardware...  now claimed

Attached a picture exactly how a I see what systemD is de facto..
The death sentence of all your hardware unless it is up 2/3 y old..
and all your invested asset base..

Sources:
https://www.osnews.com/story/133623/microsoft-remains-vague-and-unclear-about-windows-11s-minimum-requirements/

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/heres-what-youll-need-to-upgrade-to-windows-11/

https://www.osnews.com/story/133617/microsoft-will-allow-you-to-install-any-android-apk-file-in-windows-11/

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-Block-Global-Counter

Paul

[OZ1LQB]

hi..
you cant even get the latest update with a i7-4770 you are stuck with ver 1909 witch ends support in 2022 :-(

[TimFox]

In American law, corporations are "persons", so they have a damnable immortal soul...

[Ed.Kloonk]

[OZ1LQB]

Hi Ed..
i get the hint
i think thats the road i chose now.

[edpalmer42]

Yup.  I don't have a single system that can be upgraded to Win 11 and I'll be damned if I'm going to replace multiple computers that are working fine  just so I can upgrade the OS.

I've dabbled with Linux for years, but there hasn't been enough of a reason for me to leave Windows - until now.  I'm sure the process will have a few detours and frustrations, but at least there is a path instead of a brick wall.

Ed

[rdl]

Windows 11 is "beautiful on the inside."
"it's what you need, closer to you, simplified"
"it must feel emotional."

... Windows 11 Home requires Internet connectivity and a Microsoft cloud account.

Right...

[szszoke]

I wonder how many others have CPUs that are too "too old" despite them still working fine.

Eventually people will probably be vocal enough that Microsoft has to change course.

The CPU support goes back to Ryzen 2000/ Intel 8th generation.

As far as I know the TPM module is used to store encryption keys which are connected to a boot image.

That way you can encrypt your storage drive and the decryption key can be stored in the TPM module.

When the system boots it will ask for the key from the TPM module. The TPM module will make sure that the boot image was not tampered with.

In theory if you just use your computer normally, Windows will silently decrypt your storage drive during boot via the TPM module.

If your boot image was tampered with (an attacker who has physical access to the computer wants to find the decryption code with a custom boot image) then the TPM would detect that and would not provide the description keys.

The camera thing is scary in one way but not so scary in another.

It's only applicable for new laptops built after 2023. The laptops will need to have decent webcams if they want to ship Windows.

The scary part is that there will be a lot more "decent" eyes that could be watching.

A nice addition to that would be regulation which mandates a killswitch that physically disconnects webcams and microphones. Just like with a desktop machine where you can unplug your webcam and microphone.

It should not be that hard. Webcams are already connected via internal USB ports in laptops. We would just need two switches. One that cuts the power and data likes for the webcam and another that cuts 2-3 lines for the microphone(s).

[themadhippy]

I wonder how many others have CPUs that are too "too old" despite them still working fine.

But hasn't that always been the way,your 386 that worked fine with win 3.1 wouldn't run 95,the 486 you upgraded too struggled with 98, rinse and repeat

[SiliconWizard]

What I'm starting to think about is the scary idea that all those requirements, that are of course marketed as being purely for security purposes for the greater good, might actually become a legal requirement in a few years... rather than seeing regulations that would allow users to bypass them.

Hopefully this is just a bad dream.

[james_s]

I wonder how many others have CPUs that are too "too old" despite them still working fine.

But hasn't that always been the way,your 386 that worked fine with win 3.1 wouldn't run 95,the 486 you upgraded too struggled with 98, rinse and repeat

Things were different then though. A 2 year old PC was getting pretty slow and would struggle to run some of the latest software. A 5 year old PC was hopelessly obsolete and would not run most modern software, it just wasn't fast enough, didn't have enough memory, hard drive was too small, things really moved fast back then. It isn't like that anymore, a 10 year old PC may not provide an optimal experience but for most typical use it is just fine, even the latest games will generally run, if not great. Computers have gotten so powerful that most people simply don't need the latest or anything close to it, and there is no excuse for an operating system to require something new just for the sake of it being new. Not that it really matters, I don't like the direction Windows has gone and can't see myself using it in the future outside of a VM.

[edpalmer42]

I wonder how many others have CPUs that are too "too old" despite them still working fine.

Eventually people will probably be vocal enough that Microsoft has to change course.

Sure, but since Microsoft is as nimble as a fully loaded supertanker it'll take a year or two before that happens.  By that time, anyone who cares will have migrated to Linux and won't be coming back.

    I wonder how many others have CPUs that are too "too old" despite them still working fine.

But hasn't that always been the way,your 386 that worked fine with win 3.1 wouldn't run 95,the 486 you upgraded too struggled with 98, rinse and repeat.

It's one thing for us to decide that OUR system is too slow for OUR purposes.  It's something quite different for Microsoft to decide that, in their arrogant opinion, our systems are too slow and therefore they won't support them.

Are they suggesting that Windows 11 is such a resource hog that anything older than their allowed CPUs will run so slow that it will make their OS look bad??

Ed

[themadhippy]

It's something quite different for Microsoft to decide that, in their arrogant opinion, our systems are too slow and therefore they won't support the

I find that a refreshing change compared to there previous claims of what  hardware was required,olny for the user to find out that whilst there machine met the specs  it ran slower than a sloth on mogadon

[mansaxel]

Microsoft first and foremost wants to avoid the bad reputation coming from people not patching their XP (first and foremost, at all running XP should be punished, it is so outdated.) and having it pwned by kiddi3s.  TBH, if you've shipped the software that -- licensed or not -- runs on more than 50% of the end nodes on Ethernet / Broadband, you have something of a community responsibility to not fuck up, which standard they, as well as any other OS vendor, have failed to uphold, repeatedly.

Coincidentally, by locking down and making things safer by automatic patching and more controlled authentication, they also create a perfect surveillance machine, where things like telemetry are merely the icing on the cake. It ends up in a situation where you're not allowed to fully control your computer, simply because 98% of people can't manage their computer even if their life depended on it.

The exit on 10 has been to run Win 10 Pro, and join it to an AD (can be a Samba one, which is free and runs on POSIX systems). Then 90% of the annoying crap shuts up, you're not constantly being asked to set up a cloud account, and so forth. Parental controls work, et cetera. This of course is a "2% of the users" solution.   Let's hope it does not disappear.  I'm guessing they'll keep it around for their military customers, among others. Air-gapped (really, not just inconveniently networked where you need to jump through hoops to surf) systems don't play well with the cloud.

[rdl]

I was planning on building a new game computer. I guess I'll put Windows 11 on it. I'm wondering why the "Home" version is the only one that requires internet and an account to install. I would have gone with the Pro version anyway, but still think that's a bit odd.

Internet connection: Internet connectivity is necessary to perform updates, and to download and use some features.

* Windows 11 Home edition requires an Internet connection and a Microsoft Account to complete device setup on first use.

[Mechatrommer]

I wonder how many others have CPUs that are too "too old" despite them still working fine.

But hasn't that always been the way,your 386 that worked fine with win 3.1 wouldn't run 95,the 486 you upgraded too struggled with 98, rinse and repeat

its not the case now when moore's law broke down sometime like a little more than a decade ago... imho my 2008's Q9400 core quad 2.66GHz still relevant today.. esp when i upgraded to 8GB DDR2 recently and run W7 just fine as fine as WXP before.. if not because of cpu limitation starting in W10, i think it can run W10 pretty well too...

By that time, anyone who cares will have migrated to Linux and won't be coming back.

we do care, but since we made money from M$ Winglows (a little, if not much) we will find work around for this matter. we are sure there will  be a quick fix, a toggled value in registry for example, to disable all this bullshit when they realize the sale go down rapidly, like what happened during early stage of W10 with its moronic appearance smartphone like GUI with no start menu available. as much as i want to find a better alternative to Winglows, unfortunately there is none. if M$ go to hell dead today and all brand names like Adobe, Autodesk, Epson, Canon and Altium et al jump in Linux boat in their entirety, me and many others will too, but as long as there is M$ at their front, we have to deal with its political correctness (or however bullshitness it is)... there is no money for us in Linux unfortunately.

[mansaxel]

I was planning on building a new game computer. I guess I'll put Windows 11 on it. I'm wondering why the "Home" version is the only one that requires internet and an account to install. I would have gone with the Pro version anyway, but still think that's a bit odd.

Internet connection: Internet connectivity is necessary to perform updates, and to download and use some features.

* Windows 11 Home edition requires an Internet connection and a Microsoft Account to complete device setup on first use.

On 10, you get all that nagging on Pro as well. It won't go away unless you join an AD. Expect a stand-alone 11 Pro to be worse.

[rdl]

Well, as long as the Pro edition will install and start without an internet connection that'll be good enough. Of course, they can always change that. I only want it to play games and right now there are not many that require Windows 10, so it won't see much use.

[Halcyon]

People still pay money for Windows?

[gmb42]

On 10, you get all that nagging on Pro as well. It won't go away unless you join an AD. Expect a stand-alone 11 Pro to be worse.

Can you give examples of when that happens as from my experience that's totally untrue?  My two home machines have been running Win10 Pro since it came out (one started with 1809) and they aren't joined to a domain.  The machines have been updated as each new Win 10 flavour came out and their status in respect of this has never changed.

I've also set up a fair amount of Win 10 VM's for testing that weren't domain joined and can't remember seeing the issue of nagging about using a local account.

[Ranayna]

People still pay money for Windows?

Yep, they do
I did, just in April, for my new build. Luckily, in Germany, MS has to allow for the sale of OEM (SystemBuilder) licenses to the enduser. So i do not have to pay 260 Euro official MS price, retailers can sell around 130 Euro. So what that i do not get officicial MS support :p

Out of principle, i stay away from shady "used" keys for 10 Euro though.

I also paid back in the day for Vista (*shudder*) and 7. The 7 was then upgraded to 10, but that machine was given away as a whole unit, so i needed a new license.

In general though, i am very ambivalent regarding Windows 11. MS has surprisingly not crossed my line yet: A MS account is not required for 11 Pro. If it had been, i would never upgrade.
I will wait and see how strong the nagging will be, but if past experience is an indicator, i can easily wait until 2025 until i upgrade :p

Regarding the nagging of Windows 10, i can personally recommend O&O Shutup 10. That tool is a easy, everything in one place way to, well, shutup windows 10. You need to be careful with disabling anything marked yellow and red, but all the green option can mostly be disabled safely.

EDIT: @gmb42: As far as i know, if you have an active internet connection during installation, you *cannot* skip setting up an online account. That change came with 1909 or 20H1 if i remember correctly.
Office 365, which i am using, will ask after installation, to convert your account to an online one, if you hit the wrong button on first start. Other than that i have not encountered any nagging as well, but i have turned off OneDrive, online Search and Cortana, and generally do not use the MS Store *at all*.

[PKTKS]

By that time, anyone who cares will have migrated to Linux and won't be coming back.

we do care, but since we made money from M$ Winglows (a little, if not much) we will find work around for this matter.
(.)
unfortunately there is none. if M$ go to hell dead today and all brand names like Adobe, Autodesk, Epson, Canon and Altium et al jump in Linux boat in their entirety, me and many others will too, but as long as there is M$ at their front, we have to deal with its political correctness (or however bullshitness it is)... there is no money for us in Linux unfortunately.

From my past experience w/M$.. 
These arguments are understatements.

Simply put there are 2 sides of the same coin:
-  We actually make money by SAVING WASTED MONEY
- They gave me so much prejudice along 2 decades ... that just getting rid of that made me money
- THEY MAKE A GROSS MONEY...  using shallow people on a hyped OS
- They gave me prejudice (have said that?) and I made a pathetic money orders of magnitude lower .. net result for me was always negative with M$

No there is no benefit filling their pockets with so easy money
and letting they have total ownership of my hardware

My investments are made with caution - which they give no value at all

They are bad business.

But now they are also a security hazard and liability

I just won't allow them to have a mic and camera open at will
on my house my life and my devices.. letting they decide what
I can or can not do with my assets.

So.. that just sounds

MS just should go to hell.

Paul

[rsjsouza]

I wonder how many others have CPUs that are too "too old" despite them still working fine.

But hasn't that always been the way,your 386 that worked fine with win 3.1 wouldn't run 95,the 486 you upgraded too struggled with 98, rinse and repeat

its not the case now when moore's law broke down sometime like a little more than a decade ago... imho my 2008's Q9400 core quad 2.66GHz still relevant today.. esp when i upgraded to 8GB DDR2 recently and run W7 just fine as fine as WXP before.. if not because of cpu limitation starting in W10, i think it can run W10 pretty well too...

Similar story here. Main system is a Gigabyte Extreme EX58 that started with 3GB and Core i7 920 and was upgraded many years ago to 24GB and Xeon W3690 - it still works quite well with whatever I throw at it (except the latest games) and Windows 11 will throw a wrench to it.

By that time, anyone who cares will have migrated to Linux and won't be coming back.

if M$ go to hell dead today and all brand names like Adobe, Autodesk, Epson, Canon and Altium et al jump in Linux boat in their entirety, me and many others will too, but as long as there is M$ at their front, we have to deal with its political correctness (or however bullshitness it is)... there is no money for us in Linux unfortunately.

That is the major factor to still have Windows around: application software. Sure, you can do VM gymnastics and/or other tricks but the underlying OS is still there. Truth of the matter is that the vast majority of the people simply does not give a flurry animal's rear end for this dance around specifications and privacy as long as it does not cost any money and does not affect their browsing. That is the (evil) genius move from MS when offering Windows 10: the person doing a "free" upgrade was too excited to get "something for nothing" to notice their data being stolen.

-  We actually make money by SAVING WASTED MONEY
- They gave me so much prejudice along 2 decades ... that just getting rid of that made me money

That is a way to increase efficiency, not making money. The "Great Reset" (you will own nothing and still be happy) will make everyone millionaires? I don't think so.

- THEY MAKE A GROSS MONEY...  using shallow people on a hyped OS

Agree, but so does the vast majority of the "new economy": the mobile smartphone manufacturers, the social (engineering) apps, the online retail business (killed local businesses everywhere) and so on. Do smart moves to adapt or succumb.

But now they are also a security hazard and liability

I just won't allow them to have a mic and camera open at will
on my house my life and my devices.. letting they decide what
I can or can not do with my assets.

If you have a smartphone you are also open to that. Anyone is open to that level of scrutiny if using anything post-2010. Put tape in front of the camera and use other smart moves to prevent these issues.

MS just should go to hell.

I really don't understand why you are so hell bent into MS since you mentioned you don't use it anymore... Are you concerned about them tapping into systemd's source code as you mentioned in your OP? Well, if you have the clout to thoroughly analyze its code, you can start pointing out (or commenting out) their attempts. For anybody else, it will be a shift in whom to trust - from a company (or companies) with a bad business history to an army of unknown people modifying its code (and hoping they won't push their own interests ahead). 

[PKTKS]

If you have a smartphone you are also open to that.

I do not use it anymore...

But vast majority of stuff I deal with actually uses it.
So despite the fact I got rid of it on what matters to my sanity..

I am still forced to deal with them - no matter how much i despise them.
Reality still is that they achieved an unprecedented and disturbing
invasive greed among general life.

The other simple fact  is that I spend 99% of my time
on the bench and desktop.  Cell phones are bricks
which I waste about dozen minutes a day.. kept them back sided
most of the time.


So comparing my bench desktops and servers to a cell phone..
there is no chance in hell..

BTW I won't use devices eon the bench w/wide open
mics an cams.. and above that ..sliding grease fluxed fingers
on screens..

MS achieved a pathetic level- which unfortunately - i am forced
to deal with... nevertheless they are in other people devices..

 
Paul

[SiliconWizard]

People still pay money for Windows?

Actually, yes. Of course.

Although upgrading Windows starting with Win 10 has been made essentially free by MS, OEM licenses are still not free. Computer vendors have to pay for a license. So every new computer bought has a paid license AFAIK. If you build your own computer, same thing unless you can waste time installing a previous version of Windows, and then upgrade it for free. Or use some illegal means...

Server editions are also of course paid for. And expensive.