Hell freezes over...

[techman-001]

The role where no other server can be compatible with the Windows clients, because of EEE tactics; like Active Directory (because using standard LDAP instead of MS's abortion of it, would have allowed competition)?

And before you tell me AD is better than LDAP, reconsider what I just told you above.

It seems that in the webserver market the share is about one third for Microsoft and on any other server like database or file servers the share is bigger. Generally by a lot as far as I can find. These market shares just surprised me. Use whatever works for you and gets the job done.

I'm glad I didn't read that when I was drinking my morning coffee or I'd still be cleaning the screen!

Please feel free to supply some actual data to back up your Windows  fantasies.

[Nominal Animal]

Please feel free to supply some actual data to back up your Windows  fantasies.

No need to get snippy.  The server statistics are hard to collect, as you have to find the URL of every one; and even then, how can you tell whether two or more sites are served by the same server instance?

Companies themselves often pick the ways that make them look best, obviously.  It is not clear which analyst is actually independent, and which one has a contract with one or the other, so even reliable-looking market reports can be pure fluff.

That said, of web servers, it does look like slightly under 10% is more likely correct than the 33% figure mentioned.

[Mr. Scram]

I'm glad I didn't read that when I was drinking my morning coffee or I'd still be cleaning the screen!

Please feel free to supply some actual data to back up your Windows  fantasies.

Sorry, I don't have fantasies about OSs. I just use whatever works for me and move on if it doesn't. Feel free to indulge though but keep it private please. 

[Mr. Scram]

The market you're looking at is Windows Servers where a third and 90% of the machines run Windows, and the rest run Linux because they want files and printing served by a reliable OS (not Windows).

Can you rephrase your sentence because I'm not sure what you mean.

[Mr. Scram]

According to w3techs, only 8.2% of web sites are served by IIS; in September 2019, on 6.8% of the top 10,000 web sites, and on 9.5% of top 1,000,000 web sites.  For the top sites, Nginx, Cloudflare, and Apache seem to be the most popular, in that order.

Anyway, statistics are just statistics.  I don't actually care what other people use, as long as the services I use are reasonably skookum, it's just that the figure you stated looked odd to me, Mr. Scram.

I've been clicking around various statistics, categories and statistics so I concede I may have misquoted the stated number. I'll have a look later to see whether I can reproduce what I actually looked at. Regardless it's obvious the web isn't Windows Server's strong suit.

[Mr. Scram]

[Classic original Surface Pro 1 user here, also Surface Pro 6 user here (though I didn't like it and gifted it to my dad), and Surface Go user here (current daily driver on the go, and MacMini as workstation) and Surface Pro 7 pre-ordered customer here.

I only had one iPad 4 Mini, and I'm glad I gave it away. My friends do use iPhones, and most of them would prefer if I use iMessage, so I tried to convert to iPhone twice, each time ended up giving them away as expensive gifts.

I used to evaluate iPad gen 1 and iTouch gen 1, and I have to say I never liked iOS in the first place. I'm one of the few people who use macOS as main OS yet absolutely don't like iOS.

What didn't you like about the Surface Pro 6?

[techman-001]

The market you're looking at is Windows Servers where a third and 90% of the machines run Windows, and the rest run Linux because they want files and printing served by a reliable OS (not Windows).

Can you rephrase your sentence because I'm not sure what you mean.

Sure, always happy to help.

I mean that a lot of "Windows Servers" are actually Linux servers running Samba and no one knows except the Admin.

[Black Phoenix]

The picture is just laughable. When you see node.js taking 0.7% of the market, you know it's wrong.

Many embedded IoT systems run node.js, it doesn't make it a powerful server engine.

Google Servers only occupies 1% of the market, but supports the world's largest Internet empire.

Tengine supports all Alibaba services, including Taobao, Tmall, Alibaba, Aliexpress and others, despite the 0.1% market share (FYI, eBay runs on IIS).

The number is highly useless, since server count doesn't correlate with total PV count.

The majority of servers running on a VPS (personal blogs, etc.) run Apache or Nginx, yet they combined have negligible traffic compared with the big players.

My $5/month Amazon LightSail runs Apache, and it doesn't mean anything. OTOH, a Google server serves millions. They both count as one server.

From when I worked on the Altice PT, was the biggest mobile telecom operator in Portugal. HLR services were build into Oracle Servers running Red Hat, the AuC was a build of Suse, test servers were CentOS and configuration servers were VMware with Windows Server 2003 and Windows 98Se for config (Server 2003 for the new R4 equipments, 3G while Windows 98Se for the config of the old R99 Releases, 2G) that we would connect remotely by Citrix or in my case I would connect directly by IP to the machine via SSH and then run a request to the IP of the equipment were I wanted to send the commands, via SecureCRT. I'm talking only about the Core Network, I don't know how was the access one configured. The monitoring Geoprobe was Solaris and the VoiceMail from ZTE I think it was also CentOS.

The machines provided to workers were all under Windows 7 Pro while some as me could ask for Windows 8.1 Pro as beta testers, to future deployment. That was before the release of Windows 10 in July 2015.

[Karel]

Edge browser comes to Linux! 

https://myignite.techcommunity.microsoft.com/sessions/79341

[bd139]

I think that news gave me cancer

[Monkeh]

It's just Chromium under the surface now anyway. They admitted defeat. Although I think they're still persisting with their own high performance security hole called Chakra.

[SiliconWizard]

Edge of what anyway...

[Nominal Animal]

Perhaps MS has a plan of providing binary-only browser extension modules that interface to IIS on the server side, providing vendor lock-in enhanced UX and monitoring facilities for corporate environments?  Say, "enterprise-quality" three-factor authentication for banks, with integrated support for facial, fingerprint, and DNA scanning?

Yeah, I won't be using it.

[techman-001]

Edge of what anyway...

Edge of Tomorrow Yesterday ?

[mikerj]

"If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won," the kernel creator Linus Torvalds said back in 1998. Well, you've won, Linus.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/02/microsoft_surface_phone/

Irrespective of the utility of his Unix clone, Torvalds really does come across as a bit of a dick.

[magic]

He just wants world domination like Billy G and everybody else

[james_s]

I'd always heard that Torvalds was a dick, then at some point I saw various presentations by him and he seemed like a decent guy. A bit blunt maybe, not terribly tactful, but he's an engineer, that tends to come with the territory. I don't think he deliberately tries to be a prick.

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah. I personally don't care and have never seen the point of following the "Linus is a dick" herd. I fucking don't care. What he's done has been tremendously useful, and that's all I care for.

[Nominal Animal]

Linus is blunt, like myself and many other Finns, and used to cuss out those that offered him badly done work, or were plain wrong but refused to acknowledge it.
I still do, with vigor, because I get so angry when someone offers work product they clearly didn't put any effort into, or even thought about at all.  They deserve a cussing, in my opinion.  It is different when people have limited capability; having the capability but not giving a toss and being wrong, and refusing to admit it, is definitely worth a hard cussing in my book.

As to him being a dick.. Well, one of his favourite party tricks at university parties was to have his then girlfriend, now wife, Tove, show some moves by throwing him around.

Those that say he is a dick mean he isn't as socially graceful and aware as they think he should be.
Because he has tried to become much more so in the last decade or so, his own work quality has fallen.
(My favourite examples are some of the subsystem inanities he's let into Linux, like the input event ioctl() stuff "replacing" the standard read()/write() interface, without bringing anything positive, just complicating simple things -- and the patches claim it is for the good, because sometime in the future, they might wish to change this interface.  It hasn't, except for the ioctl inanity, since 2001 or so.)
In his own words, his biggest responsibility is to be able to say No to stuff.

[Karel]

In his own words, his biggest responsibility is to be able to say No to stuff.

Sometimes I think, what's gonna happen with Linux when Linus and Greg retire. I'm afraid it's not going to end well. I hope I'm wrong.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

He just wants world domination like Billy G and everybody else

There should be a (Say Thanks)^-1 button.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

The only reason JavaScript has no proper tail calls yet is... Chakra (their JavaScript engine). Thank you (not) M$, again.

[SiliconWizard]

Looks like that's one Chakra that is not open at all.
 

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

They open sourced it? Meh. Nobody cares!

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54719548/tail-call-optimization-implementation-in-javascript-engines#answer-54721813

TCO, or rather, Tail Call Elimination in JavaScript -- also often referred to as Proper Tail Calls (PTC) in discussions -- is a long and sad story.

Around 2011, TC39 (the JavaScript standards committee) decided to adopt mandatory TCE for the forthcoming ES6 standard, with consensus from all major browser vendors.

In 2015, the new standard was officially adopted, under the name EcmaScript 2015. At this point, no browser had actually implemented TCE, mostly because there were too many new features in ES2015 that were deemed more important to get out. (Today's process for JS feature proposals and their adoption, which includes the requirement of two implementations in production engines, did not yet exist for ES6.)

In early 2016, both Safari and Chrome implemented TCE. Safari announced shipping it, while Chrome kept it behind an Experimental Feature flag. Other browsers (Firefox and Internet Explorer / Edge) started looking into it as well and had second thoughts. Discussion evolved whether this is a viable feature after all. Edge had problems implementing it efficiently for the Windows ABI, Firefox was concerned about the developer experience of calls "missing" from stack traces (an issue that was already discussed at length in 2011).

In an attempt to address some of these concerns while rescuing the tail call feature, several members, including the Chrome and Edge teams, proposed to make tail calls explicit, i.e., require return statements to be annotated with an additional keyword to opt into tail call semantics. These so-called "syntactic tail calls" (STC) were implemented in Chrome as a proof of concept.

At the May 2016 TC39 meeting the issue of tail calls was discussed extensively for almost an entire day with no resolution. Firefox and Edge made clear that they would not implement TCE as specified in the standard. Firefox members proposed to take it out. Safari and Chrome did not agree with that, and the Safari team made clear that they have no intention of unshipping TCE. The proposal for syntactic tail calls was rejected as well, especially by Safari. The committee was in an impasse. You can read the meeting notes of this discussion.

Technically, this impasse still exists today, as far as I am aware. Practically speaking, though, tail calls for JavaScript are pretty much dead, and it's unclear whether they will ever come back. At least that was the conclusion of the Chrome team after the disastrous meeting, which led to the decision to remove the implementation of tail calls from Chrome, in order to simplify the engine and prevent bit rot. They are still available in Safari.

Disclosure: I was a member of TC39 and of the Chrome/V8 team until 2017, so my views may be biased.

It seems the usual firefox fuckwits (all that haven't left mozilla and moved on to work at Brave) had something to do with that too. Nobody should be using firefox anymore today, everybody ought to be switching to Brave ( https://brave.com/ ) asap.

[bd139]

It wasn't done because it's a fucking stupid idea. Fortunately design by committee did a good thing here. Think of these two scenarios:

Firstly (versioning):

1. Hey everyone has tail calls supported. Woohoo.
2. Let's rewrite everything using tail recursion!
3. Deploy and suddenly one million users explode as their tail recursion turned into a stack blaster because they haven't actually got Chrome version 99,000,000 on their steaming pile of 4 year old Android dung which was abandoned.

Secondly (determinism):

1. Along comes former PHP developer who just crawled out of the sea and evolved enough fingers to hit a keyboard and smoke. That's most JS developers.
2. Converts everything to tail calls but doesn't know what one is and does a shitty job of it.
3. Actually doesn't realise half their tail calls aren't tail calls but plain recursion and only tests it with a tiny little dataset.
4. Throws it out, explodes.

That applies if you mark it with some "hack attribute" like a PHP developer would or any other way.

Ergo between versioning and determinism this introduces a whole fresh form of footgun and the people who suffer are the poor fuckers running the pieces of shit the guys above thought was a great idea.

Actually the entire web is a massive fucking hack job and this is just another horrible horrible piece of shit to step in as your wading around. We don't need it. It really doesn't do anything useful at the end of the day and is something implicit rather than explicit which is sooooo dangerous when every freshly evolved monkey with a text editor gets their hand on it.

Edit: add meme: