Ground up Linux PC build

[JohanH]

Unfortunately, people die.
Which brings us to the question: what about after Linus?
I've never thought about it 

Linus has been asked this question, and he responded that the kernel development isn't affected by the "bus factor". Meaning that if he steps in front of a bus, there is a good infrastructure of developers ready to take over. Really, the Linux kernel project must be some of the best managed and successful open source software projects in the world.

[Marco]

Without Linus it's completely a Red Hat game, but then it already mostly is (there's Google too, but they essentially work in parallel and generally don't bother trying to play kernel politics much, they stay in sync up to a point but it's never really Linux, hell Chrome OS still uses upstart).

[SiliconWizard]

Certainly development itself would not be compromised. But the strategic decisions would be very likely to change completely.

[John B]

On the distro front:

The computer parts suppliers are probably swamped for christmas, so I imagine at least another week before I get any hardware delivered. In the interim, I managed to get Mint and Fedora working on virtual machines on my current potato. They're both obviously laggy, but it's enough to get a feel for the work flow.

Mint does look well polished, but I'm not to keen on the overly packaged/bundled/pre built nature, especially with it being downstream from Ubuntu, even if the Mint team does have a good rep.

I installed Fedora along with the KDE Plasma desktop environment, and it's very intuitive for both a windows or mac os user. The stock GNOME environment felt a little too much like an android tablet. I guess it probably is aimed at the laptop/tablet work environment. Both are quite clean and simple.

I like the more stock/upstream distro. I know all the software I currently use is supported on Fedora, so I don't think I need to stick with anything Debian based.

BTW I went with a Radeon RX6600XT vs anything Nvidia purely on the driver support issue alone.

[Nominal Animal]

I think you're all forgetting what kind of cat herd the Linux kernel developers are.

It's not like even Linus can tell anyone what to do.  He has his own git tree among many, and is just trusted because of the proven track record decades long.

If someone took over the position, and treated it like the business team leader position you seem to think it is, there would be absolutely no reason why the community wouldn't just move somewhere else, and do what they do right now.

Why do you think companies like Red Hat and Canonical gave up maintaining their own kernels a long time ago, and instead pooled their resources into pushing everything upstream into Torvalds' tree?  Cats.  You simply get better results by feeding the colony and letting them do their thing, and use treats and rewards towards stuff you'd like them to tackle.  Try to assert your authority over them, and you'll fail.

The real risk is that whoever or whatever comes after Torvalds doesn't have enough backbone and character to earn the trust of the community, so the community will fracture and split.  Nobody can tell what Linux kernel devs can and cannot do, because they own the copyrights to the kernel code; and the nature of the GPL license means nobody can set up a developer team whose work product is sold but otherwise off limits to anyone else.

I find it extremely funny that some think of GPL and the Linux kernel as examples of "communism", where it is exactly the opposite: a meritocracy based on continued competition on a rather fair marketplace of implementations.  As the kernel devs often say, "show me the patch and we'll talk".

[JohanH]

I installed Fedora along with the KDE Plasma desktop environment, and it's very intuitive for both a windows or mac os user. The stock GNOME environment felt a little too much like an android tablet. I guess it probably is aimed at the laptop/tablet work environment. Both are quite clean and simple.

When Gnome 3 was released, I adapted quite quickly to the workflow. It's a desktop environment where applications are in focus, not the desktop itself. It stays out of the way, I don't feel interacting with it, only with my applications. No tinkering, no tweaking, it just stays out of the way and let me do my work. If you are the person who needs to tweak the environment constantly, then use KDE, Xfce or something else. Gnome is not only for laptop/tablet, it's actually very keyboard driven, so you quickly begin starting applications by pressing Win and typing a few letters, then Enter. It is very flexible, though, so you can even run it on a phone (like Purism do on their Librem phone). I enjoy the experience on a big screen (I use a 34" ultra wide screen).

[Zucca]

it's very keyboard driven

and I will try it out only because of the above.... I believe a mouse and drag&drop should be the last thing to do, if you can do it with the keyboard it's always faster.... IMHO

[RoGeorge]

KDE Plasma is keyboard driven, too.  Even for files I hit Super then type only 3-4 letters, then Enter to open it.  Or arrow down then Enter if it's not the first in the search.  Same for moving windows, Super+arrow to make it half the screen, or Super+arrow left, arrow down to place it in lower left corner 1/4 of the screen, etc, etc.

Gnome is great if you are happy with it out of the box.  The moment you want to change something you'll need GUI hacking tools.  Even the most basic settings are missing.  Gnome has very, very, very few tuning without hacking it.

I've tried 5-10 various desktops when I switched to Linux.  Gnome and Plasma were the ones that looked more polished, IMO.  Gnome tend to have very few settings, huge buttons and large spaces, great for tablets and phones, good for desktops, too.  Plasma has more settings than anyone can wish, denser graphic with normal size buttons, so probably not the best for touch screens.  Default Ubuntu comes with Gnome, Ubuntu with KDE Plasma is called Kubuntu, with K from KDE.

You can boot the live DVD for each, without installing, to test which one is the best for your setup.  Can be installed as many desktops as you wish later, and you can switch between them without reinstalling, in case you change your mind.

Beware that the Kubuntu installer does not have the option to install on ZFS root.  That option is present only in the Ubuntu installer (they have different DVDs to download).  For my setup, where I wanted Plasma and ZFS on root, I've installed Ubuntu on ZFS root, then added KDE Plasma later.

[nctnico]

The stock GNOME environment felt a little too much like an android tablet. I guess it probably is aimed at the laptop/tablet work environment. Both are quite clean and simple.

Note that you can switch Gnome3 to classic mode as well giving a more regular desktop. I'm not a fan of having a single window in focus as I switch between several windows / applications all the time.

[JohanH]

I'm not a fan of having a single window in focus as I switch between several windows / applications all the time.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. In Gnome 3, window focus works pretty much like in other desktop environments. On a tablet and phone you would run with windows maximized, but on my 34" screen, I rarely do, except for games and movies.

[Karel]

KDE Plasma is keyboard driven, too.  Even for files I hit Super then type only 3-4 letters, then Enter to open it.  Or arrow down then Enter if it's not the first in the search.  Same for moving windows, Super+arrow to make it half the screen, or Super+arrow left, arrow down to place it in lower left corner 1/4 of the screen, etc, etc.

I use KDE for many years but I didn't know that, thanks!

[RoGeorge]

Aside from a gazillion of keyboard shortcuts, it has a lot of mouse, or mouse + keyboard interactions, too.  A few that I use often
- alt + right click then drag to resize a window without precisely clicking on the window's edge/corner
- alt + left click anywhere then drag inside the window to drag move it
- double click anywhere on the window header bar to maximize it without reaching the maximize button
- middle click on maximize window button to maximize it only vertically
- right click on maximize window button to maximize it only horizontally
- scroll wheel on the taskbar brings to front each window
- the classical ALT+TAB (once) to change between the last two active windows
- ALT+ repeatedly TAB or Shift-TAB while ALT is kept press to go through each window, then release ALT when the desired window is selected
- ALT+F4 to close the current window
- CTRL+End or CTRL+Home to go to the end/beginning (inside an editor or a webpage)
- CTRL+Arrow to skip a word, CTRL+Shift+Arrow to select a word, etc.

There are many, many other shortcuts or mouse behaviors in KDE Plasma, all configurable.  And yes, even after years of using KDE, it still happens to me, too, to accidentally find out about very useful shortcuts or keyb+mouse controls in KDE. 

Some are inherited from who-knows-which long gone and forgotten version of KDE, they are like ancient secret magic spells. 

[Karel]

Another thing I find extremely useful is Klipper, the clipboard for copy & paste.
I configured it to remember the last 700 copies. It speeds up the workflow a lot.

https://userbase.kde.org/Klipper

[DiTBho]

Fluxbox on a simple MGA framebuffer.
I only run the windows manager.
Everything else is console-task.

[Zucca]

Sorry for the off topic again.
I am in Windows a sucker of Total Commander.
To be honest with you, Total commander and Autohotkey are the only two reasons I did not pulled the trigger to Linux in my main work horse pc.

Any of you use mc in Linux?

John B, can you post some pics of your new beast?

[RoGeorge]

What makes you think you can't have that in Linux? 
Not to say there are better Linux native alternatives.

[Zucca]

What makes you think you can't have that in Linux? 

oh I am thinking exact the opposite actually, I just have to sit down and do my homework.... instead to get everything served on a silver plate....

RoGeorge you are killing me, and I am happy to be bash(ed) from you Linux dragons...
One of the XMas goals is to get my hands dirty with a minitower PC in Linux....

I will try the metal barebone installation.... with USBs images and distros... also... anyway my first 100% Linux box in my home!



PS: my spider senses are telling me it will be a deeper rabbit hole than my 3D printer one...

[Nominal Animal]

PS: my spider senses are telling me it will be a deeper rabbit hole than my 3D printer one...

If your mind is open to investigating how you can most easily/effectively/pleasantly achieve your tasks without preconceptions, it will be; and also very satisfying.

That is the only reason I'm using Linux: I mold it to my needs, as opposed to me trying to find the way that the Powers That Be have dictated for a particular task. My imagination, and available time and effort to implement my ideas, are the only limits.  I'm not boasting, either, because this is achievable to a large fraction of technically-oriented people, and only takes time and effort to achieve.  It also explains why I dislike the idea of being dependent on a single vendor (because I've been bitten by that), and why I adamantly want things like FreeBSD to exist also.

The thing is that you will also occasionally be frustrated.  Very frustrated.  Do not let that discourage or anger you, and instead treat it as a puzzle: try to find out exactly why you get frustrated, and especially, find the difference between what you expected and what you found, and then find out why.
In my own case, there are typically unnoticed implicit assumptions involved (on both my own, as well as other developers' sides), and getting a grip on those lets you understand, and choose alternative approaches as a sort of an informed guess.

For myself, that difference is similar to being in a small lift/elevator, and having someone fart.  If it is a completely unknown person who doesn't even acknowledge they farted, it can be immensely annoying.  But, if you see that person blush in shame, it is easy to let go.  And, if it is a friend, well, you might tease them by calling them "Stinko" for a minute in good fun, and not really get annoyed at all.

[John B]

Sorry for the off topic again.
I am in Windows a sucker of Total Commander.
To be honest with you, Total commander and Autohotkey are the only two reasons I did not pulled the trigger to Linux in my main work horse pc.

Any of you use mc in Linux?

John B, can you post some pics of your new beast?

Everything was shipped yesterday, I'm not hopeful of it turning up today although I might be surprised. If not today, then it will probably be Tuesday or later due to the Christmas public holidays.

It's given me plenty of time to stew on buyers remorse for not moving to the next gen with a 7950X and DDR5 RAM   

[Ed.Kloonk]

[DiTBho]

the new Lenovo arm-laptop?

yup it's in my Xmas list, but
1) Windows11 is what runs there, Linux ... will run soon, at the moment there is just little support.
2) it's TOO expensive at the moment (1600 euro)

an Arm Lenovo's laptop more expensive than Apple's one: that's incredible 

[SiliconWizard]

An arm and a leg?

[RoGeorge]

Linux Santa was taken prisoner by the Oogie Boogie Windows! 

[DiTBho]

An arm and a leg?

and an eye 

I tried out one of those Lenovo-arm-laptops at a local Lenovo dealer today—they're kind of the Lamborghini of Laptops.

When you touch it on the body it's like touching silk.
Premium laptop. Very impressed.

[DiTBho]

(wait 1 year and you'll find it with great Linux support and for half the current price)