looking for an App, like Dia, but for logic circuits

[DiTBho]

app-office/dia v0.97 is a nice app, but ... it makes some things annoying, like symbol rotation.

v0.98 is not stable for several reasons, in fact after 2 years, in gentoo there are still ebuilds for v0.97

Code: [Select]

app-office/dia-0.97.3-r1
and, in any case, dia-v0.98 solves the rotation problem through a very annoying plug-in that uses python

...

Is there an open source program, written in C/C++ (1), that rotates logical symbols { ang, or, exor, .. } gates and flip-flops, and that does not use any external plug-in?

Thanks 

(1) can't compile { Rust, GoLang, ... } code on HPPA.
Only C and C++.

[DiTBho]

Cannot use java.
I don't have a working jvm for HPPA.

[golden_labels]

If there is no need to have proper connector functionality and just drawing lines is fine, Inkscape can use symbols: Object → Symbols…. opens the window. In the window there is a dropdown menu to select a set, which also has logic gates. The downside is that you can only use standard lines to connect those parts. While Inkscape has a connector tool, it doesn’t do well with non-rectangular shapes and can’t draw connectors other than those with one bend.

[SiliconWizard]

Can you not otherwise run KiCad?

[DiTBho]

Kicad is too heavy due to its GUI libraries and difficult to compile

[DiTBho]

If there is no need to have proper connector functionality and just drawing lines is fine, Inkscape can use symbols: Object → Symbols…. opens the window. In the window there is a dropdown menu to select a set, which also has logic gates. The downside is that you can only use standard lines to connect those parts. While Inkscape has a connector tool, it doesn’t do well with non-rectangular shapes and can’t draw connectors other than those with one bend.

Exactly. I just need to draw logic diagrams, made with basic elements of boolean logic { and, or, not, xor, ... }.
I hadn't thought about Inkscape! Thanks for the idea 

Dia would be perfect, both for how it is written, for how it compiles, and for how it runs on rather limited platforms like HPPA.

GNU/Linux on HPPA is limited in the sense that it's a very little followed architecture, so ... the kernel is the v5, the rootfs is 2019, there is no support for { GoLang, Ada, Rust, ...}, no support for llvm, partial support for Qemu, etc ... and that the graphics card is still so poorly accelerated, due to low bandwidth on the PCI side, due to parts of the hw that are not yet clear because poorly/no documented, and that are standing thanks to rather conservative hacks, so even a MGA card, which was the best linux-friendly pci-graphic card in the 2000s, offers a half-decent framebuffer for an xterm terminal that it is better to connect remotely via x11 ... with then however the problem that then applications like Kicad do not run well because the graphics libraries on which they rely generate too much network traffic when you try to export the display.

Umm, here the problem is x11 ... and if Wayland doesn't help to make things a little more streamlined, well ... getting Wayland to work on HPPA is... quite a challenge, since in Portage ebuilds 90% of its dependencies are marked as "untested, no idea how they work" on HPPA...

...which usually means they will NOT work the first time and there will be a lot of things to fix.

I'll try to investigate someday.

-

Anyway, Dia would be perfect ... if it already had built-in rotated symbols. Or if it had an internal mechanism to rotate them, or an editor to take care of symbols.
Tempted to fork and hack it 

-

In the meantime I put Inkscape on emerge ....

[drago462]

You may try diagrams.net . It is web based but it also have a desktop version. I have used it for workflow diagrams and works well.

[Gyro]

LibrePCB?   https://librepcb.org/

[DiTBho]

LibrePCB?   librepcb

umm, it does a little more and not exactly what I need
But it's still interesting

I will look at the sources and try to figure out if I can recompile it for my purposes.

Thanks! 

[tggzzz]

Cannot use java.
I don't have a working jvm for HPPA.

As the old joke goes... "Doctor, my head hurts when I bang it against a wall". "Well don't bang it against a wall, then".

You might consider spending £40 on an old PC, put Linux on it, and run any one of the JVMs on that.

[SiliconWizard]

Otherwise use LaTeX with circuitikz.

[DiTBho]

You might consider spending £40 on an old PC, put Linux on it, and run any one of the JVMs on that.

That's not the point, I already invested money for an Intel MacMini/Intel Core Duo Dual, which is basically a dedicated server to Xilinx ISE for GNU/Linux for fpga Spartan3 synthesis, and for things like Java, which by the way always worked terribly on PowerPC in the PowerMac days  (early 2000s), and never had any official support from Sun for other architectures.

Read, forget it for GNU/Linux on HPPA, there is no Java support, nothing works, either you are willing to implement it from scratch, or ... that's it

So, the point is: I would like to make the HPPA and POWER10 workstations completely independent "HDL workstations" from any other external servers like Xilinx on the Mac-Mini.

Otherwise, if I can only run applications remotely, and export the DISPLAY to a local workstation ...
well, this definition becomes "dumb x11 terminals" 

[DiTBho]

Otherwise use LaTeX with circuitikz.

that's a very interesting idea!
I hadn't thought of that.
It's not hard to support both

[tggzzz]

You might consider spending £40 on an old PC, put Linux on it, and run any one of the JVMs on that.

That's not the point, I already invested money for an Intel MacMini/Intel Core Duo Dual, which is basically a dedicated server to Xilinx ISE for GNU/Linux for fpga Spartan3 synthesis, and for things like Java, which by the way always worked terribly on PowerPC in the PowerMac days  (early 2000s), and never had any official support from Sun for other architectures.

Read, forget it for GNU/Linux on HPPA, there is no Java support, nothing works, either you are willing to implement it from scratch, or ... that's it

So, the point is: I would like to make the HPPA and POWER10 workstations completely independent "HDL workstations" from any other external servers like Xilinx on the Mac-Mini.

Otherwise, if I can only run applications remotely, and export the DISPLAY to a local workstation ...
well, this definition becomes "dumb x11 terminals" 

My emphasis added to your post above.

In that case why do you explicitly state that you "cannot use java"?

(For those for whom English is a second or third language, "cannot" is not the same as "do not want to". Cannot means forbidden / impossible / not permitted)

Cannot use java.
I don't have a working jvm for HPPA.

Of course I've no cause for complaint if you make life difficult for yourself; that's your choice.

[RAPo]

Will logisim (java) or ktechlab (linix, kde3) or GGate work for you?

[DiTBho]

In that case why do you explicitly state that you "cannot use java"?

Because "cannot" there meant  "(mission) impossible (on HPPA)"
I couldn't even if I wanted to, too complicated for one person to do it.

There was never any support from Sun, never a binary for GNU/Linux HPPA.
There was a release for HPUX/PA v11 (before the switch to Itanium) but that is impossible to reuse it for modern GNU/Linux.
Linux emulation for HPUX binaries has never worked.
In any case we are talking about an old version of JRE that in any case would not run applications like digitali.

The open source alternative for modern JRE... let's forget it, especially on HPPA.

[DiTBho]

Will logisim (java) or ktechlab (linix, kde3) or GGate work for you?

Logisim (java) -> Digital (still Java, but better)

I have never tried { ktechlab, GGate }.
Thanks for reporting 

[tggzzz]

In that case why do you explicitly state that you "cannot use java"?

Because "cannot" there meant  "(mission) impossible (on HPPA)"

OK; that's a glory for you.



(That is a reference to a 150 year old book, well remembered and referenced for very good reasons: Through the Looking-Glass by Lewis Carroll, Ch6)

[Humpty Dumpty:]  'And only ONE for birthday presents, you know.  There's glory for you!'

  'I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.

  Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously.  'Of course you don't--till I tell you.  I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

  'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

  'When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less.'

  'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

  'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master--that's all.'

http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/grol/alice/glass06.htm