Are those all in one water coolers any good?

[Simon]

i don't think i will be able to fit a huge air coolor. At the moment I have a ton of fans anyway. For all the hype the manufacturers make about their fans they never give performance and with good reason, they are all shit! If I get the radiator outside of the case i can easily make an adapter for ebmpapst 4114 series fans, those kick ass and on their minimum speed will outperform any over-hyped junk that all PC accessory makers sell.

What is your CPU? As your stock cooler does not even have heat pipes, I guess $40 mid size air cooler should be more than enough. If you watched that youtube video, small air cooler beats small AIO.

For all the hype the manufacturers make about their fans they never give performance and with good reason

There are tons of cooler reviews with performance comparison charts.

it's a Ryzen 7 2700, I am thinking about a R9 3900X but that is not much more power hungry.

[wraper]

Not to say if you buy $50 air cooler VS $120 AIO of the same performance, you can invest remaining $70 into hardware that actually makes a difference. Like SSD, RAM, Better CPU, whatever.

[Simon]

I did an experiment with a heat sink and a power resistor and looked at the heating of the heat sink on my thermal camera.

Did you mind painting heatsink surface or at least attaching a piece of adhesive tape on it's surface? By default it works like mirror for IR, so you won't see actual heatsink temperature by IR camera. You may look at piece of metal heated to 100^oC and see 40^oC reflected from something else. I suspect you don't know how to use IR camera properly.

It was a black one, usual 100x250x30mm from RS 6mm thick base and fins every 12mm. it was also not a test about raw temperature but actual movement of heat up the base plate which it did not.

[wraper]

it's a Ryzen 7 2700, I am thinking about a R9 3900X but that is not much more power hungry.

It's certainly doesn't need AIO. Anything above mid range AIR cooler won't make a difference.

[Simon]

Not to say if you buy $50 air cooler VS $120 AIO of the same performance, you can invest remaining $70 into hardware that actually makes a difference. Like SSD, RAM, Better CPU, whatever.

Yes i am not entirely silly. i have decent Corsair RAM that will do 3.6GHz, again "if" you read my posts further back I have substantially overclocked the RAM already, Yes i have a nice intel SSD thank you not that this makes much difference with computational speed of the computer and most hard drives now are fast enough to only be a bottle neck for very specific tasks. As I already explained if you read my aim is to maximise BOINC work - something to do with a virus without a vaxine and just for the hell of it. As for a CPU, $50 won't do a lot, that nice R9 3900X is £400+, there is no point in making a small jump to something like an R7 3700X might as well spend the extra £100 for something really earth shattering in fact the per core cost of the 3700X and 3900X is the same.

[Simon]

it's a Ryzen 7 2700, I am thinking about a R9 3900X but that is not much more power hungry.

It's certainly doesn't need AIO. Anything above mid range AIR cooler won't make a difference.

Well it currently does 3.45GHz tops on the stock cooler, it's rated for 3.2GHz and as I already said if you read it will do up to 4.1GHz if kept cool enough. With air cooling I can't do a lot. I cannot fit one of those huge things in there and to prevent recirculated air inside i need a ton of fans so I might as well get AIO water, put the radiator outside the case and put my excessive amount of fans onto the radiator if I don't just fit some real fans. Having to have PC fans either side of the radiator is just saying that those fans are shit. I can get one real fan and really have it dumping that heat.

[wraper]

again "if" you read my posts further back I have substantially overclocked the RAM already,

One more reason to buy AIR cooler since it creates at least some airflow around CPU area.

[Mechatrommer]

the cheapest i found when looking in the market is segotep halo blue around USD40 but i cant find it in ebay anymore... i bought 2, one as spare in case i need it in another system..


talking about tube leak, i believe there should be always a way around. hardware store should supply few compatible pvc/silicone tubing that can last much longer, and also longer in length if required such as external mounting etc. adapter can also be made/bought easily i believe. i prefer the transparent tube so i can see liquid circulation inside, if rust developing, water pump not working etc, but my water cool is still new so maybe next time for the mod. looking how tough it can cool my old power craving 95W cpu, i believe water cool is only necessary for gamers. if no other good reason, air cool will be sufficient to avoid unnecessary leak/clog/dead pump risk. i put it in my system just because the upgraded cpu will only require larger air cool heatsink that cant fit in the tight space. so i have to bring the heat far outside the area hence the need for the water cool. arguing about the heat dissipation capacity, if you are too afraid that it wont be sufficient, just buy the 2 or 3 fans in the pack, like Simon's linked but £100+ is not something i'm willing to spend, even a single fan is rock solid enough for my need. Segotep also comes with double fan setup..


and few other brands come with cheap price. so this is not for a premium grade users only anymore... leak is not the only risk, clogging, rusting also are, seeing whats inside maybe can give better clue if you want to take the risk/mod effort... open loop system also available in tank like setup... you should also aware of thermal mass nature of it, ie when the water heated up due to longer PC usage time, it will takes time to cool down. not really an issue as long as it can be dissipated more than generated by the CPU... equilibrum will take its place...


ymmv.

[Simon]

again "if" you read my posts further back I have substantially overclocked the RAM already,

One more reason to buy AIR cooler since it creates at least some airflow around CPU area.

You won't give up will you? one ram module sits in front of the other, the RAM is not really overclocked, I have as you suggested already bought the best RAM but i am running it slower so I have adjusted the timings but seem to be doing better at 3.0GHz than simply recalculating my 3.6GHz timings implies. Calculate the same clock timings of 42 @ 3.6GHz @ 3.0GHz, I am runnig 29 way better. "cooling" RAM with hot CPU air is not really the bast. By taking the heat right out of the case the RAM will be benefiting from a lower ambient already.

[wraper]

Read your comment about BOINC/rosetta (single comment which I missed). Frankly it's stupid to overclock for that, especially up to the max possible. You double  power consumption for marginal performance increase. And you get doubled emissions into atmosphere instead of doing good deeds. IMHO it would be better to simply donate additional money spent on electricity bill.

[wraper]

"cooling" RAM with hot CPU air is not really the bast. By taking the heat right out of the case the RAM will be benefiting from a lower ambient already.

Air out of CPU cooler is not that hot and there is also incoming airflow. FYI VRM around CPU often overheat when used with water cooling because there is no airflow. Warm airflow is better than no airflow at all.

[Mechatrommer]

adding extra small fan to circulate CPU's surrounding air is not a big task.

[Siwastaja]

Then you can cool the water with a large water to air heat exchanger (radiator) located elsewhere in the case.

Emphasis added - this is the key part. An "integrated" water cooling solution with approximately 120x120mm radiator doesn't do anything that couldn't be done with a classical copper heat spreader block and large aluminium heatsink of suitable design - i.e., a well-designed and large standard heatsink+fan.

If I wanted to go through the hassle of water cooling, I would definitely take the advantages of it by using a considerably larger radiator block than a simple air cooling solution can ever provide. Otherwise, there is no point.

Yes, the key in water cooling is you can move the heat elsewhere and spread it over very large areas. Doing the same with a classical heatsink would require huge mass of metal.

[Simon]

Read your comment about BOINC/rosetta (single comment which I missed). Frankly it's stupid to overclock for that, especially up to the max possible. You double  power consumption for marginal performance increase. And you get doubled emissions into atmosphere instead of doing good deeds. IMHO it would be better to simply donate additional money spent on electricity bill.

The CPU has a maximum power it can run at, in my case 65W to run faster at a given temperature it has to crank the volts up and use more power so the W/CLK goes up. As far as I can tell I cannot exceed this unless I force it. But I have left it on manual setting. The cooler it is the lower the voltage required for that speed so the less power it uses so the faster it can go. I am not using more power I am getting more efficiency with better cooling. I also generate twice the electricity I use and I need something to heat the house anyway.

[Siwastaja]

Air out of CPU cooler is not that hot and there is also incoming airflow. FYI VRM around CPU often overheat when used with water cooling because there is no airflow. Warm airflow is better than no airflow at all.

Yes, with watercooling, I would definitely consider adding a fan running at a very low RPM to cool the components in the vicinity of the CPU, because the motherboards are engineered with the fan cooling in mind.

[Simon]

Then you can cool the water with a large water to air heat exchanger (radiator) located elsewhere in the case.

Emphasis added - this is the key part. An "integrated" water cooling solution with approximately 120x120 radiator doesn't do anything that couldn't be done with a copper heat spreader block and large aluminium heatsink of suitable design.

If I wanted to go through the hassle of water cooling, I would definitely take the advantages of it by using a considerably larger radiator block than a simple air cooling solution can ever provide. Otherwise, there is no point.

Yes, the key in water cooling is you can move the heat elsewhere and spread it over very large areas. Doing the same with a classical heatsink would require huge mass of metal.

That is why I picked this particular model. It has a quick connect coupling so I can break that and insert more of the same system, so one more radiator and another pump to compensate for the added pressure drop - perfect.

[wraper]

Read your comment about BOINC/rosetta (single comment which I missed). Frankly it's stupid to overclock for that, especially up to the max possible. You double  power consumption for marginal performance increase. And you get doubled emissions into atmosphere instead of doing good deeds. IMHO it would be better to simply donate additional money spent on electricity bill.

The CPU has a maximum power it can run at, in my case 65W to run faster at a given temperature it has to crank the volts up and use more power so the W/CLK goes up. As far as I can tell I cannot exceed this unless I force it. But I have left it on manual setting. The cooler it is the lower the voltage required for that speed so the less power it uses so the faster it can go. I am not using more power I am getting more efficiency with better cooling. I also generate twice the electricity I use and I need something to heat the house anyway.

First of all it can consume more than 65W and does that even without overclock. TDP is not maximum power consumption. Secondly by overclocking you increase power consumption a lot. Overclock without power consumption increase does not exist. If there is power limit which is exceeded, clock simply drops.

[Simon]

Well I am not looking to force it any faster. I am running it on auto settings to sort itself out. Higher speeds could need more power but if that power is linear to speed increase that is fine.

[Siwastaja]

The cooler it is the lower the voltage required for that speed so the less power it uses so the faster it can go. I am not using more power I am getting more efficiency with better cooling.

While you are right this phenomenon exists, you are likely severely overestimating it. The difference is almost insignificant. If you want to get seriously higher performance with the same power dissipation, you need to go to a refrigerated system, or even liquid nitrogen.

[wraper]

I am not using more power I am getting more efficiency with better cooling.

You should not forget that water pump and fans consume power. So even if you got a bit lower temperature (which you won't), you still need to power water pump and any additional fans. As said above, to really have any noticeable power consumption advantage due to lower CPU temperature, you need significant temperature difference, no a few ^oC

[wraper]

I had similar (offline) discussion with a one guy. He completely ignored my suggestion to stick with air as it's trouble free and offers same performance, saying stupid argument that he wants to assemble computer which will run with overclock and don't need any intervention for many years. Guess what, his very expensive AIO leaked in less than a year. He said no water got onto electronics but I have doubts about that since now he has some weird motherboard issues.

[Simon]

I am not using more power I am getting more efficiency with better cooling.

You should not forget that water pump and fans consume power. So even if you got a bit lower temperature (which you won't), you still need to power water pump and any additional fans. As said above, to really have any noticeable power consumption advantage due to lower CPU temperature, you need significant temperature difference, no a few ^oC

Indeed but then who sets the standard? my CPU can run from a minimum speed to a maximum under ideal conditions. Yes Ideally I need to drop £400 on a new R9 3900X that will run a bit faster and has 12 cores. What a pity it was not out when I bought what was then the best thing since sliced bread.

I have actually noted an increase in power consumption as I slowed the fan down. eventually I figured how to get best case airflow so that i could run the fans slower.

[Simon]

I had similar (offline) discussion with a one guy. He completely ignored my suggestion to stick with air as it's trouble free and offers same performance, saying stupid argument that he wants to assemble computer which will run with overclock and don't need any intervention for many years. Guess what, his very expensive AIO leaked in less than a year. He said no water got onto electronics but I have doubts about that since now he has some weird motherboard issues.

If you read what I wrote earlier I don't think the AIO may be much better but I have more control over improving cooling with it. i can pun some real fans in that run at minimum speed will knock the socks off these so called "PC fans" and with low power flow more air.

[wraper]

i can pun some real fans in that run at minimum speed will knock the socks off these so called "PC fans" and with low power flow more air.

That's some bold claim.
EDIT: Just so you understand. Good coolers already have fans with optimized airflow / static pressure ratio to get best performance when combined with particular radiator. The only case when you can get better performance is when you put fan with faster RPM at expense of noise. But most coolers already have fans which run pretty fast and noisy at maximum speed.

[Simon]

Those crap things from Corsair are not fans, these are fans: https://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/4114n2h8pu-50371715/

I really do not know why you think the claim of a better fan than a "PC fan" is to be scoffed at. You obviously live in the closed box of PC accessories with big words used to describe the silliest of things. Obviously I would not run that fan at 125W but even at minimum speed it will outperform a peice of crap from Corsair. Why do you think all these bullshitters never publish specs. The only time I saw a spec it was like 30Pa real fans run well over 100Pa.

As I already explained that will not understand a radiator will offer more pressure drop that an air cooler. this is because the air is put more into contact with the hot bits and slows down. So less air is pushed through by the same fan negating the effect. Now put a real fan on the radiator and getting enough pressure for good flow will not be a problem.