A week using an Apple iPhone -- An Android user's perspective

[Mr. Scram]

Apple are far better at supporting legacy than most. Consider the 68K -> PPC and PPC -> Intel transitions and the upcoming Intel -> ARM. Also iPhone 5S is still supported with latest iOS after 69 months. The last 32-bit iOS only device was fully supported for 48 months. Name a 2013 Android or Windows Phone that's still supported...

I know of noone who actually has used an iPhone until iOS is EOL. They either got a new one or destroyed it.

How can we at this point tell the upcoming Intel to ARM move is supported well? Until it happens we can only speculate.

[0culus]

On the flip side, if you commit to supporting legacy, you end up with a turdpile like Windows that tries to bring support for everything all the way back to DOS.

You mean the operating system that has absolutely dominated the personal computer marketplace for decades, selling billions and billions of copies? Much of that dominance is because backward compatibility and legacy support are paramount.

I would argue as well that much of the problem with Windows has nothing to do with the legacy support. Some of the longstanding gripes sure, but for the most part that stuff is good enough. It's the UI design and attempts to monetize everything that has done it in recently. Removing 32 bit app support from iOS provides no tangible benefit at all, I would challenge anyone to find something that it noticeably improves because all I see is devices having less capability after being updated. We're not talking 20 year old software here, it's apps I bought 2-3 years ago and actively use.

Dominating the marketplace is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for being considered "good". Besides, I'd wager the majority of the install base worldwide is due to sheer lock in for enterprise for workstations and running active directory. I'm personally very happy to work at a place where we have an officially supported choice between Macs (macOS), Linux boxes, or Windows boxes for our primary workstation.

IMO Windows peaked with 7, and has been going back downhill ever since. In the 90s, it was absolute shit stability, then NT was pretty good, now they have thrown all that favorable impression away since 8 in favor of ever more intrusive instrumentation and talking back to the mothership that you cannot disable, ads in the start menu, etc etc. And the atrocious UX that resulted from the half baked attempts to make Windows both a tablet and a desktop OS at the same time.

[NiHaoMike]

Name a 2013 Android or Windows Phone that's still supported...

Quite a few Android devices from back then still have a pretty good XDA community backing them.

[Mr. Scram]

Can we not make this into yet another Microsoft or Windows versus Apple discussion? We've had 16000 too many of those already. Thanks.

[all_repair]

I don't get why the performance of a phone (Android, in my case) keeps going down over time.  It's as if it is impossible to "keep it clean".

Apple ruined my old 4s, which I liked, with an OS update that didn't work on that hardware, and no way to downgrade.

Planned obsolescence is rife in this industry.

Until your post, I was wondering why people were not having problem like your which is also mine.  Most of my old mobile phones are fine, replacing battery is not a big problem.  But the slowing down of mobile phone after update, and even no update, is the only biggest problem for me to get a new phone.   I was on Nokia, then onto many Samsung, but the combustible Note made me change to HuaWei Mate 9.

My Mate 9 is still running fine, and each update there seems to have some improvement, but no slow down as what I used to experience with my Samsung phones.  My feel is something is being done deliberately at the back.

[Mechatrommer]

maybe he got the phone's internal memory full due to piling whatsapp files and docs, like my wifey experienced on the crap phone iirc like 4G memory? was keep coming to me asking why, then i check the app utility and i showed her, see? gigabytes of whatsapp and telegram files delete all those and the phone is ok again. didnt happen to me on the same crap brand phone because i know how to manage things.

[Jeroen3]

Inside smartphones is flash memory. When this is almost full the wear leveling has a difficult time and the flash memory grinds to a halt.

[james_s]

Dominating the marketplace is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for being considered "good". Besides, I'd wager the majority of the install base worldwide is due to sheer lock in for enterprise for workstations and running active directory. I'm personally very happy to work at a place where we have an officially supported choice between Macs (macOS), Linux boxes, or Windows boxes for our primary workstation.

IMO Windows peaked with 7, and has been going back downhill ever since. In the 90s, it was absolute shit stability, then NT was pretty good, now they have thrown all that favorable impression away since 8 in favor of ever more intrusive instrumentation and talking back to the mothership that you cannot disable, ads in the start menu, etc etc. And the atrocious UX that resulted from the half baked attempts to make Windows both a tablet and a desktop OS at the same time.

I agree, but none of that is related to the fact that Windows has excellent backwards compatibility, in fact it strongly supports the fact that backwards compatibility and support for legacy software is hugely important because even though there have been numerous technologically superior operating systems out there, Windows has absolutely demolished them in the marketplace. People don't run Windows because it's a great OS (though Win 7 was/is quite good), they run Windows because of the absolutely enormous library of software that exists for it. An operating system exists to enable a computer to run the software you want to use, nothing more, it's all about the software. Unless you have the customer bent over a barrel with nowhere to go, you don't go yanking support for legacy software without a really, really good reason. iOS should have kept support for 32 bit apps for a minimum of another 5 years beyond when they dropped it. They can only get away with it because users who are invested in the ecosystem have nowhere to go.

[bd139]

Actually I run windows because I'm a lazy bastard and it requires the least amount of effort.

Don't even start me on windows' supposedly good backwards compatibility. I know windows pretty well inside and out. It's a fucked up mess of an OS because they didn't every break anything, well not intentionally and there's a lot of unintentionally broken stuff. WinSxS is a testament to that.

Sometimes you have to start again. Windows does this every X years but forgets to fix the old stuff and then you end up with apps which are at the same time: win32, MFC, DCOM, ATL, Managed C++, WPF, windows forms and now suddenly electron.

Look at Carbon -> Cocoa transistion with OSX. That was done very well.

[0culus]

Dominating the marketplace is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for being considered "good". Besides, I'd wager the majority of the install base worldwide is due to sheer lock in for enterprise for workstations and running active directory. I'm personally very happy to work at a place where we have an officially supported choice between Macs (macOS), Linux boxes, or Windows boxes for our primary workstation.

IMO Windows peaked with 7, and has been going back downhill ever since. In the 90s, it was absolute shit stability, then NT was pretty good, now they have thrown all that favorable impression away since 8 in favor of ever more intrusive instrumentation and talking back to the mothership that you cannot disable, ads in the start menu, etc etc. And the atrocious UX that resulted from the half baked attempts to make Windows both a tablet and a desktop OS at the same time.

I agree, but none of that is related to the fact that Windows has excellent backwards compatibility, in fact it strongly supports the fact that backwards compatibility and support for legacy software is hugely important because even though there have been numerous technologically superior operating systems out there, Windows has absolutely demolished them in the marketplace. People don't run Windows because it's a great OS (though Win 7 was/is quite good), they run Windows because of the absolutely enormous library of software that exists for it. An operating system exists to enable a computer to run the software you want to use, nothing more, it's all about the software. Unless you have the customer bent over a barrel with nowhere to go, you don't go yanking support for legacy software without a really, really good reason. iOS should have kept support for 32 bit apps for a minimum of another 5 years beyond when they dropped it. They can only get away with it because users who are invested in the ecosystem have nowhere to go.

Sure, there's still demand for COBOL programmers in some industries. Enterprise never likes breaking what they have already invested in. iOS, really, is hardly targeted at enterprise (though funnily enough it's becoming more and more popular for work-supplied mobile devices, especially in lieu of blackberry).

I can't name a many apps from the old days that I still want to use. I've found better alternatives that aren't abandoned. The only app I wish was still maintained was this handy storm spotter app that provided access to data from every WSR-88D weather radar site in CONUS (and a few OCONUS too). Sadly I think it was abandoned years ago.

Fundamentally, Apple chose a different strategy. Though they have lately been positioning themselves on the services side (especially wrt privacy), they are at their core a highly vertically integrated hardware company. They are in business to sell hardware, and software exists to help make that happen. They don't have much of a business interest in maintaining decades of software compatibility.

[james_s]

Well I'm glad it works for you, but from my perspective the new version took away features and didn't add anything. I'm still waiting to see a tangible and quantifiable example of what removing 32 bit support improved because to me it looks like the same OS with the same glaring bugs except it supports fewer apps. If supporting 32 bit apps was causing significant visible problems and removing it resulted in a substantial performance and/or reliability improvement then I could get onboard, but it really just looks like Apple trying to throw their weight around and maybe boost app sales a bit by forcing people to purchase replacements for older stuff that still worked.

I did notice iPhone sales had tanked recently and there has been much speculation as to why. Personally I think it's a complex range of things but I know I'm not going to buy another one if I can help it due to the things I've already mentioned, too big, lack of physical home button, notch in the display, on top of the other annoying aspects that have always been there but that I've put up with because overall it was still a better experience. A good friend of mine who has had iphones for years is also saying the 6 he has will be the last because new ones dropped the headphone jack and he also hates the notch. Then there is the fact that the average price has gone way up in recent years, it's no wonder sales are sliding.

The lack of a home button, clunky ugly UI and gigantic phones was what kept me from considering Android phones but now that Apple has copied most of what I hated about those there is much less to differentiate, if my SE ever breaks I'll certainly be shopping around this time and see if I can do better.

[Mr. Scram]

Large part of Apple's problem is probably that the technology is maturing. This means there aren't real leaps and bounds like there used to. They're messing with force touch and notches but ultimately those are gimmicks and not significant changes to the experience or usefulness. Technology maturing also means cheap alternatives aren't a compromised experience any more. It's absolutely baffling how good sub $200 phones are.

[Halcyon]

The lack of physical home button really doesn't affect my experience with Android, in fact, I prefer it since there is less screen real estate. For example on my Samsung S8, all you need to do is "hard press" where the home button would normally be and it will perform the same function, it even gives haptic feedback so it feels like you're pressing a physical button.

[ebastler]

I'll try and approach this with an open mind and leave any biases aside.

And how is that working for you? 

Seriously, I'm afraid that this report is turning out exactly as what was to be expected: You complain about various aspects of iOS which are unfamiliar or feel inconvenient, while turning a blind eye to the shortcomings, idiosyncrasies, and privacy issues of Android.

[bd139]

On the home button, I haven’t missed mine. I prefer more screen. Plus FaceID is excellent. Just look at the phone and slide up and unlocked.

[Halcyon]

I'll try and approach this with an open mind and leave any biases aside.

And how is that working for you? 

Seriously, I'm afraid that this report is turning out exactly as what was to be expected: You complain about various aspects of iOS which are unfamiliar or feel inconvenient, while turning a blind eye to the shortcomings, idiosyncrasies, and privacy issues of Android.

So far so good.

Don't get me wrong, I've used a lot of crap Android handsets too, but I'm basically comparing two major brands and their flagship models (of the time). One "advantage" iOS has in this test is that I'm running the latest version. The latest Android version is not available for my Samsung. This itself is both a positive and a negative.

As for privacy and cyber security issues, both Apple and Android have their strengths and flaws.

I'm just being honest, this week has been frustrating. Forget about the hardware limitations for a moment, I just find Android a much more polished and capable operating system. It's far more customisable (which I need), is much more "fluid" and natural to use and doesn't require me to create accounts and sign up for services I don't want.

As for "turning out as expected", well, perhaps Apple needs to get its act together? You don't have to agree with me, this is just my opinion and perspective.

[Mechatrommer]

Actually I run windows because I'm a lazy bastard and it requires the least amount of effort.

there are few types that require least amount of effort. one is as you said, lazy bastard who are ignorant of the technology yet have nothing else productive to do. the other type is the people who are really busy with something else that they have no time bother with the auxiliary/additional parts/devices they want it work first time because they are too occupied with other more productive task. these people will make this as a point to choose premium like iphone etc, but i find it similar to android, if we even have to register this and that and tuck in to that or this cloud etc in ios. other than that, they just work first time (android) so i dont really see a point choosing more expensive device even among android models.

Large part of Apple's problem is probably that the technology is maturing.

not just apple, it happened to other corporations in the business line as well. and no, technology is not maturing yet. it matures when we can communicate or play games with just from mind. 3d hologram, tele kinetic, 3d hand gesture like in minority report, true voice to text (any language) program etc, there are many innovations can be think of, but we are not given the "priviledge" yet. it will be "given" one bit at a time, when it comes, you'll see the cycle will happening again among corporations, with just slightly different face (feature), but the trait remains the same. i guess major corporations attended some sort of symposium somewhere, when there is new technology, you'll see everybody will do the same, start running again on the same whistle blow.

otoh talking about largest screen, i missed real buttons keyboard on the phone, with this argument... regardless android or iphone, all of them sucks, why there is no real AI that can distinguish our intention is it real touch or screen swipe, or just accidental touch in which the phone will not do anything? with real buttons, i can type while driving without taking my eyes off from the road.

[bd139]

Actually I run windows because I'm a lazy bastard and it requires the least amount of effort.

there are few types that require least amount of effort. one is as you said, lazy bastard who are ignorant of the technology yet have nothing else productive to do. the other type is the people who are really busy with something else that they have no time bother with the auxiliary/additional parts/devices they want it work first time because they are too occupied with other more productive task. these people will make this as a point to choose premium like iphone etc, but i find it similar to android, if we even have to register this and that and tuck in to that or this cloud etc in ios. other than that, they just work first time (android) so i dont really see a point choosing more expensive device even among android models.

Android reminds me of this though:

[james_s]

The lack of physical home button really doesn't affect my experience with Android, in fact, I prefer it since there is less screen real estate. For example on my Samsung S8, all you need to do is "hard press" where the home button would normally be and it will perform the same function, it even gives haptic feedback so it feels like you're pressing a physical button.

Well good for you, I'm glad you don't mind because that seems to be where the market is going. I want a physical button though, I like physical buttons, it's a feature that is important to me. I don't want that stupid face ID either, I want to be able to unlock my phone without having to look directly at it, if I'm driving I want to be able to hand my phone over to a passenger so they can check a message for me or set up the navigation. I don't share the same obsession with screen real estate, as long as the screen is rectangular without any missing bits it doesn't have to take up the entire face of the phone. I prefer larger bezels than most new phones have too, a bezel gives you something to hold onto and frames the display nicely, like a painting typically looks better with a frame.

[Mr. Scram]

Well good for you, I'm glad you don't mind because that seems to be where the market is going. I want a physical button though, I like physical buttons, it's a feature that is important to me. I don't want that stupid face ID either, I want to be able to unlock my phone without having to look directly at it, if I'm driving I want to be able to hand my phone over to a passenger so they can check a message for me or set up the navigation. I don't share the same obsession with screen real estate, as long as the screen is rectangular without any missing bits it doesn't have to take up the entire face of the phone. I prefer larger bezels than most new phones have too, a bezel gives you something to hold onto and frames the display nicely, like a painting typically looks better with a frame.

The iPhone 7 and 8 don't have physical buttons either. They have a capacitive sensitive area which gives tactile feedback when "pushed", but it's not a button any more.

[bd139]

On FaceID I don’t need to touch my phone to unlock it. That’s far safer when driving. As for other people they have their own phone! Hey Siri read my last message. Hey Siri navigate home. Hey Siri message XYZ. Hey Siri shuffle my music.

One of the cool thing with FaceID is if anyone picks up your handset they can’t see what your notifications are. If you pick it up you can.

As for screen real estate it really does make a difference. There’s an 8mm border to hang on to on my XR. Plenty. Main thing is the keyboard moves down so you’re not wasting a chunk of the device on a button you’re not going to push. The XR is smaller than a 6 plus but the screen is bigger.

[Mr. Scram]

On FaceID I don’t need to touch my phone to unlock it. That’s far safer when driving. As for other people they have their own phone!

One of the cool thing with FaceID is if anyone picks up your handset they can’t see what your notifications are. If you pick it up you can.

I assume you're joking, but there's no real reason to unlock your phone while driving. It's also illegal in a lot of countries. Distracted driving is a huge issue and causes numerous deaths. It always amazes me how obvious it is when someone is messing with a phone while driving. They're all over the place, driving erratically above and below the speed limit and people tend to use their signals less too. Too bad so many people feel the other drivers are idiots, but they can handle themselves.

[bd139]

On FaceID I don’t need to touch my phone to unlock it. That’s far safer when driving. As for other people they have their own phone!

One of the cool thing with FaceID is if anyone picks up your handset they can’t see what your notifications are. If you pick it up you can.

I assume you're joking, but there's no real reason to unlock your phone while driving. It's also illegal in a lot of countries. Distracted driving is a huge issue and causes numerous deaths. It always amazes me how obvious it is when someone is messing with a phone while driving. They're all over the place, driving erratically above and below the speed limit and people tend to use their signals less too. Too bad so many people feel the other drivers are idiots, but they can handle themselves.

You miss the point, perhaps intentionally.

FaceID is about authenticating your presence, not a gateway to tapping on your phone in traffic and driving into an orphan school bus leading to children running around on a carriageway on fire getting hit by soccer moms in their SUVs who turn to alcohol.

Your presence is required to be authenticated when certain information boundaries are crossed like revealing personal information or acting on behalf of you via Siri. Like in the above examples:

1. authentication is required before Siri lets you navigate "home" because it doesn't want to give away where home is to someone who isn't you.
2. authentication is required before Siri lets you send a message as yourself, because it doesn't want to allow someone else to act on behalf of you.
3. when i open my banking app (santander) and before I transfer money to someone.

This is pretty damn sensible. It just happens to unlock the phone at the same time.

Also I'm sure this will be followed by waah waah etc. Read this first please: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208108

And if you want to disable it, such as pre-arrest, squeeze the side buttons and your phone bricks itself until the normal PIN is entered.

Edit: I genuinely think people should go and read this. This document is mostly why I use iOS. It explains how all this shit works, how it works together and what protection there is in place in the properly integrated hardware and OS environment:

https://www.apple.com/business/site/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

Seriously sit down with it for a couple of hours and take the time to understand how it all works and how much effort has gone into it, particularly compared to Android, and what the real security outcome is.

[0culus]

iOS + the accompanying hardware is absolutely the best out of the box security consumers can get right now for a smartphone or tablet.

The only unanswered question for me, really, is just how much Apple's A series chipsets might prove vulnerable to attacks on speculative execution. Given the strong emphasis on single threaded performance (which is basically unrivalled still), I can easily imagine that there may exist vulnerabilities in that regard. Hopefully the very smart chip people they've been hiring over the past decade or so have been taking notes from Intel. We'll find out one way or another I'll wager.

Apple's strong vertical integration also mitigates supply chain attacks, such as the one Google discovered where Android devices were loaded with malware before the buyer even opened the box. [1]

[1]: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/06/tracing-the-supply-chain-attack-on-android-2/

[Mr. Scram]

You miss the point, perhaps intentionally.

FaceID is about authenticating your presence, not a gateway to tapping on your phone in traffic and driving into an orphan school bus leading to children running around on a carriageway on fire getting hit by soccer moms in their SUVs who turn to alcohol.

Your presence is required to be authenticated when certain information boundaries are crossed like revealing personal information or acting on behalf of you via Siri. Like in the above examples:

1. authentication is required before Siri lets you navigate "home" because it doesn't want to give away where home is to someone who isn't you.
2. authentication is required before Siri lets you send a message as yourself, because it doesn't want to allow someone else to act on behalf of you.
3. when i open my banking app (santander) and before I transfer money to someone.

This is pretty damn sensible. It just happens to unlock the phone at the same time.

Also I'm sure this will be followed by waah waah etc. Read this first please: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208108

And if you want to disable it, such as pre-arrest, squeeze the side buttons and your phone bricks itself until the normal PIN is entered.

Edit: I genuinely think people should go and read this. This document is mostly why I use iOS. It explains how all this shit works, how it works together and what protection there is in place in the properly integrated hardware and OS environment:

https://www.apple.com/business/site/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

Seriously sit down with it for a couple of hours and take the time to understand how it all works and how much effort has gone into it, particularly compared to Android, and what the real security outcome is.

I think we're talking about different things. I was just saying you shouldn't be dicking with your phone while driving. You'd think that's obvious, but a quick look in the real world and at statistics show it's definitely not. Research shows none of the hands free systems mitigate the added risk to anywhere near the point of not existing.