$1000 USD CAD and Rendering Workhorse. Getting the Balance right?

[sokoloff]

My own personal requirement for the last couple decades, a software-independent discrete thermometer to attach directly to the CPU's lid
.

This seems like an interesting idea. How do you install this without messing up the interface between the CPU and the CPU heatsink?

[mnementh]

      

No extraordinary measures. Just the thermistor laid against the metal edge of the lid like so with a blob of thermal grease. The ones like this: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E3A2SS0/ with the small epoxy-blob sensor fit without modification; the faint tension of the wire combined with gravity keep it in place.

Functionally, the thermo can read as much as 5-8° cooler than core temps; this is due to thermal saturation response time and the fact of measuring from the edge. Still, generally an accurate "Average temp" if you add 5° in your head.

I use it as an independent "reality check" against software monitors that are sometimes completely out to lunch and to ensure I don't ever have a "locked-up processor meltdown" scenario again. Oh, and because of AMD's moronic "Temp Offset vs Threshold" reporting methods. 

Yeah, yeah... I know these worries are all supposed to be long-dead relics of the past. I figure $7-ish is cheap peace of mind; plus I like the look.

mnem
"I love the smell of angry pixies in the morning... Smells like VICTORY!!!"

[mnementh]

My wife just informed me that I have a shiny new Ryzen 3700X inbound to go with my  new MB. She also informed me that I should not expect anything else for my birthday. 

mnem
*totes down widdat*

[beanflying]

You are lucky she didn't include Christmas too  Several new BIOS updates for most of the 570 boards too if you were not following.

The remaining question is what special favours you have to do to get an SSD to complete the build

[mnementh]

We'll see what shakes out after I pay the *gulp* July in Hottern'ell, TX electric bill. I may be motivated to sell my old hoopty motorcycle sooner rather than later. 

I figure by the time I'm ready to actually fire it up (the 3700X, not the motorbike), they'll have MOST of the buggitys fixed. I'll need to run it a few times on the old 860 SSD just to get the build logged with MS authentication servers before I do a fresh install on a 970Plus... or two.  World will not come to an end if the nvmes don't happen til after the move. Maybe by then proper ground-up design PCIE 4.0 SSDs will be affordable; from what I've read, everything being sold as PCIE4.0 SSDs right now are really modded PCIE3.0/nvme designs. 

This is definitely 100% a back-burner project right now; I just laid the board in there tonight for the first time to start planning my cable layout. I'm getting the cars to pass inspection, then as soon as I'm done with that I need to pull my taxes together and whip them out this coming week.

mnem
moo.

[mnementh]

   

The Sleevening has begun!!! 

mnem
You probably shouldn't look.

[mnementh]

That sleevening looks like ass. And it gets in the way of power cables that have to go over it... time to redo it all. 

mnem
Stay tuned for the next installment of misery...

[beanflying]

Did I mention how nice the cable management options in the Coolermaster Case was 

Time to sniff some fumes......

[mnementh]

The cable management options in both my cases are perfectly fine; it's not like either of them or your Coolermaster have a hide-em shield like the high-er end NZXT & Thermaltake offerings.

The problem is that I'm one of those psycho arseholes who cares what the back side and the basement look like too...     ...aaaand I fuckin' deserve what I get. 

In other News...

I'm back up on my old hardware now... I've stripped out my RX580, 240mm AIO, PWM cooling fans & Samsung 860 SSD for the new build & have reverted to all my old build hardware from before I did the case migration.

I'm STILL vacillating back & forth between the two cases... I like different aspects of both. 

mnem
I have this terrible feeling that once we move into the new place I'm going to wind up with this PC in my bedroom and the new build in my "dwagon cave" for game-time widda kiddz, wherever that winds up. 

[mnementh]

Progress. 

mnem
*Putter... putter... tinker-putter...*

[wraper]

Is this thread an echo chamber? Just asking.

[beanflying]

And the award for the weakest 'attempted' Trolling Post for the day goes too ..... 

[olkipukki]

Meanwhile, I pulled a trigger to get a try new Ryzen while patiently  waiting new AMD stuff in Fall and before to make a final step to AMD world. 

Let's call this thread inspired me. 

3600X should arrive soon.
In worst case, I can sell it in a minimum cost or keep as is to play a Windows minesweeper.   

If eveything goes according to a plan, upgrade to 3950X is really good backup and 2nd side machine.

Wish me luck.

[mnementh]

Luck!

In Other News...

...my shiny new 3700X is right now in my hot little hands. SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

mnem

[beanflying]

Meanwhile, I pulled a trigger to get a try new Ryzen while patiently  waiting new AMD stuff in Fall and before to make a final step to AMD world. 

Let's call this thread inspired me. 

3600X should arrive soon.
In worst case, I can sell it in a minimum cost or keep as is to play a Windows minesweeper.   

If eveything goes according to a plan, upgrade to 3950X is really good backup and 2nd side machine.

Wish me luck.

Luck  Just watch out for the BIOS upgrade path depending on your board. My B450 Gigabyte now done is stable and was coping well with the stock Ryzen Overclocking (PBO) and hitting 4.37GHz but it wasn't the easiest to get the BIOS sorted.

[mnementh]

(Attachment Link)    THE BITCH LIVES.
    While researching possible compatibility issues with my particular combination of CPU/RAM/MB (Even though my exact RAM is listed on the MB's QVL), I was led back to the MB support page where I discovered a new BIOS released JUST YESTERDAY. In desperation, I Q-FLASHED it again... and it booted to BIOS. The aggravating part is it still refuses to boot with XMP enabled; so RAM just operates at slowest JEDEC speed of 2667.  I suspect the main difference is just that prior BIOS versions defaulted to XMP ENABLED, while this version doesn't. 

I think I'm going to accept this small victory and go to bed.

mnem
Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

So... after researching the issue, it appears the main problem is that those XMP profiles are based on a Intel thing, and they haven't got the equivalent XMP profiling for the Zen2 CPUs done yet in the BIOS so the memory timing will sync like it does out of the box with Intel builds.  So, in short... my RAM is new enough and high-performance enough that the 3700X can't keep up stock out of the box; I have to manually OC it to match the RAM. Which is really hard to do when the effing thing won't even POST because they left XMP on as a default.

Moving forward...

After having a chance to sleep on it... and knowing how I tend to obsess (*looks at self indignantly* "MOI?!?") over things... I've realized that even though I have the problem licked (I KNEW it was something STUPID) with this MB, after doing the "deep dive" into the differences between the Aorus Elite and the Aorus Pro I still feel like I'm "settling" with the Aorus Elite MB.   

I'm going to go get the Pro now just so it will stop niggling at me.   

mnem

"Get in the car son; Time for a ROAD TRIP!!!"

[olkipukki]

Thank you Guys

Just watch out for the BIOS upgrade path depending on your board. My B450 Gigabyte now done is stable and was coping well with the stock Ryzen Overclocking (PBO) and hitting 4.37GHz but it wasn't the easiest to get the BIOS sorted.

I am trying to eliminate this from day 1.

Hope that a premium paid for MB is not just for 'labour' to get rid of LEDs and other fancy stuff  , for effort to make this board to be solid and reliable.

[Black Phoenix]

Thank you Guys

Just watch out for the BIOS upgrade path depending on your board. My B450 Gigabyte now done is stable and was coping well with the stock Ryzen Overclocking (PBO) and hitting 4.37GHz but it wasn't the easiest to get the BIOS sorted.

I am trying to eliminate this from day 1.

Hope that a premium paid for MB is not just for 'labour' to get rid of LEDs and other fancy stuff  , for effort to make this board to be solid and reliable.

I've been eyeballing that motherboard over and over again, since it was announced. What it's the verdict of it?

[olkipukki]

I've been eyeballing that motherboard over and over again, since it was announced. What it's the verdict of it?

Not yet received all components to complete the build.

The first impression is very solid and well done.
Personally, I do not like a fan to be the board, guess there is no escape for X570 chip

[beanflying]

Apart from the lack of PCIe4 if you can get a B450 or 470 there is no real difference in speed and even some have made the 300 series work but I wouldn't be going back that old. There is a downside with the older boards currently being sold they don't support the new generation until you get the BIOS upgraded but it seems based on mnementh's experience the 500 series still has some quirks too.

Happy with the performance of my 450 with the 3700X now I have the Bios upgraded.

[Black Phoenix]

I've been eyeballing that motherboard over and over again, since it was announced. What it's the verdict of it?

Not yet received all components to complete the build.

The first impression is very solid and well done.
Personally, I do not like a fan to be the board, guess there is no escape for X570 chip

Well with that big heatsink they could have gone the route of the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Extreme:



Look that heatpipe close to the memory slots.

[olkipukki]

Well with that big heatsink they could have gone the route of the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Extreme:

In this case, the form factory is E-ATX. Usually, ASUS using CEB/EATX format for workstation grade boards.

They deliberately made it (as well as a new Z390) in ATX.

[Black Phoenix]

It's still not impossible to put a totally passive cooler anyway.

[mnementh]

Aorus X570 Build: A Timeline

3 Days Ago: Sunday

The new MB is in the box and cables made up; it POSTs and boots to BIOS. BUT... The damn USB ports are now all flaky as hell; mouse freezes up and keyboard acting like there’s a key pressed and held most of he time.    This after it performed flawlessly on the bench for more than an hour while I puttered around setting up the fans and CPU pump and stuff.    It took half an hour of unplugging/replugging mouse/KB to complete a BIOS update... I can’t even get into the “Tweak” submenu to tune the OC.    Done all the usual troubleshooting; new mouse/KB, different PSU...

I’m on the road doing family stuff; when we get home I’ll  strip it down to RAM & CPU... again.

mnem
   Okay... I think I’ve bled enough for this bleeding edge.

3 Days Ago: Later Sunday



"Aorus X570 Pro WiFi MB latest BIOS; problems due to poor documentation. Posting this to save anybody else experiencing this behavior the grief of figuring it out by themselves the hard way. Manual does not clearly state this, but ALL management of the nvme drives on the Aorus X570 MBs like this one is done through the nvme RAID Management Console. This means that even if you have only one nvme drive, you will STILL need to "Enable nvme RAID Mode" (something that is pretty explicitly counter-intuitive) in the  SATA Config submenu to enable nvme drive management AT ALL.

TL/DR version: Before you install your nvme drive(s), turn ON "nvme RAID  MODE" in SATA Configuration submenu, EVEN IF INSTALLING ONLY A SINGLE DRIVE. BIOS will act flaky like this until it scans the nvne drives and knows what to do with them; getting to that point with the BIOS behaving like this is an exercise in frustration."

It was the effing nvme/M.2 drives. Either slot occupied makes it do this.  Oklay... must be some conflict on the PCIE bus.     I wonder what stupid setting they left on by default that I missed the first time I read TFM.

mnem
Nice pants.

3 Days Ago: Later LATER Sunday

It appears the BIOS on these boards places ALL nvme management under the NVME RAID Management console. You can manage SATA drives from the regular settings menu; but to manage even a SINGLE nvme drive you have to ENABLE the nvme RAID Controller and force it to rescan the physical drives. Until you do, it continues to be this kind of totally flaky whenever there's a nvme drive attached (even though it auto-detects the damned things and shows them right on the dashboard), and of COURSE the nvme RAID Controller is turned OFF by default. 

I only found this out by accident while noodling around in the BIOS; NONE of this "nvme RAID Controller" config is outlined in TFM; it's not even MENTIONED.  I think this manual is primarily drafted from the X470 manual with very little modification. The documentation posted online at the product page outlines configuring nvme drives in RAID; however, nowhere do they explain that before you install your nvme drive(s), you need to turn ON "nvme RAID  MODE" in SATA Configuration submenu, EVEN IF INSTALLING ONLY A SINGLE DRIVE.

BIOS will act flaky as seen above until it scans the nvne drives and knows what to do with them; getting to that point with the BIOS behaving like this is an exercise in frustration.

mnem
*trailblazing* 

Yesterday: (4AM Monday Morning)



Bitch Lives.

mnem
I'm goin' to bed.

 New Aorus Pro WiFi MB installed and custom-cabled. Got my (3 weeks) "old" build of Win10 on my Samsung 860 SATA SSD to boot relatively painlessly. Using it for basic diag while I get things tweaked and for single-nvme-drive baseline benchmarking before I do a fresh RAID 0 install of Windoze for comparison.

Yesterday Afternoon:

Had to tear my 1KW+ ( Yes REALLY!!!) PSU down to the PCB because the fan in it sounds like a effing jet engine (unlike the one in my first unit) all the effing time.   

Turns out they bypassed the thermal-control loop and were running the fan WOT/100% Duty Cycle. Spent the afternoon tearing both of them apart to compare and retrofit missing parts so the 140mm fan has nice, ear-friendly thermal control like my first one.    And finishing up custom cabling.

Today:

Just finished posting video in hopes of saving some other poor sod the same misery I just beat my head against for two days. I sold myself on upgrading to the next level up, a $270 board, AFTER figuring out how to get it to boot... because of course I did.    But I had a good road trip with my son, and I am now able to "stop wishing I hadn't cheaped out."

While on my road trip widda boy, I also sold myself on a pair of the cheapest PHISON E12 based 3.0x4 NVMe 512GB nvme drives I could find, just to see if Giga's nvme RAID claims held any water on drives ordinary mortals might buy. Also because I was able to buy steal them for $49.99 ea. 

 Settling in for an afternoon reading up on SSD benchmarking and AMD Infinity Fabric vs CPU OC-ing.

mnem
*currently having a sordid and unnatural relationship with this cup of coffee*

[mnementh]

I've completed my Tune & benchmarks; the full article is up here.   I ramble a bit & lots of pics, so I'm just gonna post the chart & synopsis here.

The TL/DR: Some small file read performance and med-small file write performance and longer RAID Boot times compared to single-channel connected. Otherwise, these $59 SSDs produced very comparable numbers to premium PCIe3.0 drives costing 2x as much, and in RAID, comparable to (In some cases, far exceeding) PCIe4.0 drives costing 5x as much. Definitely a worthwhile experiment.

mnem
The Three Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't even get out of the game.