PCB design price

[nctnico]

25 euro per hour? Maybe in Germany where everything is somehow cheap :-)

It really depends on where you live. If you do contract work you should look at what someone makes in a regular job and multiply the hourly rate by at least 2. The problem with taking jobs for a low price is that once you get on your own feet there will be other people working for peanuts keeping you from decent pay. Rule number one is never to compete on price because in the end you'll always lose.  Unless you can put a lot of competitors out of business and raise prices afterwards.

[Corporate666]

I figured it out that if I stay, and get paid by the hour than I can work more slowly than I can and still manage to get the fair amount of money.

so we both are unfair to each other but what the hex, I'm learning for free, I get my PCB's done and even get some money

Sorry to be blunt, but it sounds to me like you and the guy who wanted to stiff you on a complicated board design for $125 are perfect for each other.

Two people of questionable ethics using each other to the maximum extent they can.  I have a feeling he is more experienced and will win this game in the end.  Good luck - I think you'll need it.

[jpb]

Without getting into the ins and outs of this particular case, a very common mistake that people make when first becoming self-employed contractors is to under-estimate overhead costs.

If you come from an employed background and your used to being paid $X an hour people often cost up jobs at a bit more than $X per hour whilst you really need to cost them up at more like four times $X per hour.

If you're doing work on a commercial basis (rather than as a favour for a friend) you've got to account for all the hours it takes to do things that are done by others if you work in a large company such as
i) marketing (i.e. spending time finding work and persuading people that you are capable of doing a good job)
ii) admin/legal stuff i.e. determining exactly what the job entails, agreeing specifications and some sort of contract and what the position is should requirements change,
keeping time sheets,delivering the final product/design and getting it accepted,
iii) travel and meeting time and associated costs
iv) idle time - i.e. time between contracts when you're looking for the next job
v) holidays/vacation
vi) time and money spent on accounts, tax returns
vii) rent, insurance, secretarial services (maybe you need to be in shared offices where there is someone to answer the 'phone though of course you can just use your mobile)
perhaps even legal services if you want to get any contracts checked over (insurance might include liability insurance should your design have some major flaw which costs the customer money).

If you've not run a small company or been self-employed before it is very easy to under-estimate what it will cost you in time and perhaps other expenses to deal with all the boring stuff.

It gets even worse if you start expanding beyond just yourself and perhaps start to employ others even if it is just part time admin help.

Of course when you first start out you probably will do things on an ad hoc basis and work from home and not bother too much with contract details etc but it is difficult to put up prices so it is best to charge a sensible rate from the outset.

[Mengano]

Quick question for Sruk:

What design software are you planning to use for this potential job?

If your able to accept a job for such a low price, then maybe your using some open source software like Kicad or ?  Surely, to be able to accept a job at such a low price, you must not have a big software overhead expense to deal with, so just curious.  Thanks.