If you could only use one CAD suite for PCB design, what would it be ?

[Iliya]

If it's regardless of cost, then simply get somebody else to do the design! Easy
The question really is too nebulous.

Get the tool for the job. No point in using a NC drilling M/C when a simple battery electric screwdriver with a hex fitting bit will do. Or even a hand powered bit. KIS principle.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Hi all,

What is the most capable CAD suite for PCB design ? Regardless of cost and learning curve.

I've used SMartwork, Tango which became P-CAD, Pads 7.0 under DOS, something that ran on the Amiga, SciCards (which as far as I can tell was the first commercial PCB package?), Pantheon Intercept, Altium, PADS under windows, and Allegro.

I'd say overall Cadence Allegro for PCB, warts and all. I'd like to have the choice to use Altium's schematic entry, though.

[tggzzz]

KIS principle.

Actually it is KISS, which in English has two valid meaning depending on whether there is added stress

Keep It Simple and Stupid
Keep It Simple, you STUPID person

[Iliya]

I was trying to be polite. The second S can offend and is often meant to!

[Wilksey]

 Horses for courses.

You don't work for Tesco do you? 

[tggzzz]

I was trying to be polite. The second S can offend and is often meant to!

Yup

[Iliya]

Oops. Freudian slip or parapraxes.  However, if we were in France - Um Um 

[cloudscapes]

been using diptrace since 2007. it has its quirks but I have no reason to switch.

[TunerSandwich]

It might be worth it to switch to the layout software that your supplier uses, in house.  For example, we are evaluating OrCAD (Cadence) right now, because a supplier for our new project uses it in house.  This would save us a lot of time and hassle in creating libraries/pads/etc.  Especially for completely proprietary parts. 

A lot of it comes down to raw/total costs.  Is it cheaper/more cost effective to payout for licenses, to gain an existing library?  I suppose that is to be determined on a specific basis. 

If the vendor supplied eval board contains the topology you want to implement....it might be worth it?

At any rate, I find it useful to talk to applications/engineering at various vendors, to gain insight into these things.  Sometimes (for us) it's not about what is "the best" (technically)....the bottom line usually boils down to the bottom line ($).

Fundamentally they are all CAD and if a major supplier/engineering firm was able to  use a specific package for development, then chances are it does "work"....

 

P.S. if I had to choose one, and only one, it would be whichever one has the largest support packages for the devices I most typically work with.....if the cost was no object and the dev times were infinite....it would be Dassault Systems.....the integration between mech and electrical design is amazing, and their simulations actually work (and integrate into mech physics).   Probably OrCAD for layout etc....

P.P.S.  if the company credit card was fully loaded and the moon was the target......http://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/details.htm?productID=2162

[Layoutguy]

I've used the PADS layout platform for many years in a busy service bureau environment, and I'm very satisfied with the capabilities after nearly 30 years of use. PADS was a low-cost system when first introduced ~1986, but it's a bit pricey these days.   I used Racal-Redac systems for 5 years prior to PADS, and most of you wouldn't believe how expensive layout systems were back in the early 1980s!  Over the years, PADS software continually evolved and changed ownership several times, and it's now a Mentor product. Of course, PADS has its quirks & limitations, but despite evaluating several other leading brands, I have not been convinced to jump ship.  I don't know how capable the stripped-down entry versions are, but the top-end toolset manages the broad spectrum of complex board types we see.  Sounds like I'm promoting PADS, but I'll be the first to say that PADS is just one of the many capable platforms available.  They all have strengths and weaknesses. You have to make a choice and stick with it for a while, since database conversions between brands can be a hassle. 

[DavidDLC]

These type of questions....

Unless there is a person that has used ALL of them, then that will be the right person to answer, other than that.... well just opinions.

David.

[DerekG]

Once you get used to use it (AD) , you will never be able to use any other tools.

This is opinion only, just as the poster immediately above correctly writes.

I use for Altium, Proteus & DipTrace, all for work.

Proteus is my favourite & Altium my least favourite.

I'm currently working through with Novarm (the developers of DipTrace) to truly bring their package into the professional arena.

As far as company insight into the future goes, Novarm is number one & sad to say it, Altium comes in last.

[Warhawk]

Once you get used to use it (AD) , you will never be able to use any other tools.

This is opinion only, just as the poster immediately above correctly writes.

I use for Altium, Proteus & DipTrace, all for work.

Proteus is my favourite & Altium my least favourite.

I'm currently working through with Novarm (the developers of DipTrace) to truly bring their package into the professional arena.

As far as company insight into the future goes, Novarm is number one & sad to say it, Altium comes in last.

It is nice to hear that. I also like your inputs on their forum. It seems it is a small company with young developers and they should get in touch with some experienced EDA professional. I am wondering if any of those guys has ever designed some professional PCBs (besides hobby projects).

Honestly, I must say that after the first positive impression with Diptrace I can not get over some bugs or missing features (e.g. sheet connectors, PCB update from library etc.). There are also some bugs which were reported more than five years ago and still without any fix. For example copper pours and DXF export (for our CNC).

[DerekG]

It is nice to hear that. I also like your inputs on their forum. It seems it is a small company with young developers and they should get in touch with some experienced EDA professional. I am wondering if any of those guys has ever designed some professional PCBs (besides hobby projects).

Yes, the two co-founders are Ukraine graduates with mechanical & electronic engineering degrees. They do rely on users who push DipTrace to its limits to learn what needs advancing next.

Honestly, I must say that after the first positive impression with Diptrace I can not get over some bugs or missing features (e.g. sheet connectors, PCB update from library etc.). There are also some bugs which were reported more than five years ago and still without any fix. For example copper pours and DXF export (for our CNC).

I use copper pours extensively & the update 2.4 last year provided significant improvements in this area. Perhaps start a new thread & point me to it & I will assist with working through any problems you are experiencing.

[Bud]

Yes, the two co-founders are Ukraine graduates with mechanical & electronic engineering degrees. They do rely on users who push DipTrace to its limits to learn what needs advancing next.

Then they better hurry up before their president burns them in the civil war.

[Warhawk]

Yes, the two co-founders are Ukraine graduates with mechanical & electronic engineering degrees. They do rely on users who push DipTrace to its limits to learn what needs advancing next.

Then they better hurry up before their president burns them in the civil war.

Luckily a friendly Russian president may help them. The Czechs have a lot of experience with that from former times 

[DerekG]

For those who don't know, some of the best of Altium's programmers are also Ukrainian. The universities in Eastern Europe produce some of the worlds best programmers.

I've heard in the grape vine that some/a few/many of Altium's programmers are currently wanting to emigrate to the USA.

[Takto]

These type of questions....

Unless there is a person that has used ALL of them, then that will be the right person to answer, other than that.... well just opinions.

David.

Exactly what I was thinking. How does it help to hear all these different opinions? There is no real answer anyway...

[Gribo]

If cost is not an issue, I would use DxDesigner and Expedition from Mentor graphics. I have used it when it was called AcePlus, then VeriBest and now DxDesigner.

[tggzzz]

These type of questions....

Unless there is a person that has used ALL of them, then that will be the right person to answer, other than that.... well just opinions.

David.

Exactly what I was thinking. How does it help to hear all these different opinions? There is no real answer anyway...

Opinions backed by caveats are valuable. For example,

• "Mental Gruffics is complete and will enable you to do signal integrity planning, but expect to spend 6 months learning it and preferably have a sysadmin to care for it"
• "CrossCAD is used by some large organisations and has an active community which is continually adding new features, albeit in an ad-hoc fashion"
• "Vulture is widely accepted by vendors, but once you hit a limit your pocket is lightened"

will enable different people to concentrate/ignore different options, based on their needs.

OTOH, "I use X, and so should you" is valueless.

[jmarkwolf]

Many moons ago I used to use something called Protel, haven't designed or made a PCB in years so no idea if it is about now, although someone did say it had changed names, I liked it.

Protel is called Altium nowadays. It also has a new spin-off called Circuit Studio (and Circuit Maker).