Author Topic: DEX eval by free_electron  (Read 347980 times)

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Online nctnico

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #350 on: February 10, 2015, 01:39:36 am »
A beautiful example of why attempting to blindly autoplace and autoroute a complex board is a ridiculous idea..
Another example of pure negative feedback :(

Did you not see this...

Quick route with Electra.  Did it this afternoon.
Not finished yet...
Just quit using the autorouter. It is incapable of routing boards with 2.4GHz RF (where are the matched impedance traces?) and other critical traces like the ones to the USB connector. I strongly doubt your design will even work with the poorly routed USB traces.
You say you are not a professional PCB designer and it shows. Nothing against that but just don't try to sell us the autorouter results because they totally suck for critical traces. Actually I have not used an autorouter for decades because modern PCBs with surface mounted components don't lend themselves very well for autorouting. I think I can route your Zigby example by hand with most of the traces on the top layer. What is most important for a good PCB package is to be able to edit traces quickly. I'm not saying that your ideas are wrong but try to listen to what 'we' find important in a PCB design package.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 01:41:18 am by nctnico »
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Offline mswhin63

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #351 on: February 10, 2015, 04:20:27 am »
Just quit using the autorouter. It is incapable of routing boards with 2.4GHz RF (where are the matched impedance traces?) and other critical traces like the ones to the USB connector. I strongly doubt your design will even work with the poorly routed USB traces.
You say you are not a professional PCB designer and it shows. Nothing against that but just don't try to sell us the autorouter results because they totally suck for critical traces. Actually I have not used an autorouter for decades because modern PCBs with surface mounted components don't lend themselves very well for autorouting. I think I can route your Zigby example by hand with most of the traces on the top layer. What is most important for a good PCB package is to be able to edit traces quickly. I'm not saying that your ideas are wrong but try to listen to what 'we' find important in a PCB design package.

Two answers, don't use the auto-router yourself, and don't use the program!

I think most if not all PCB design software have auto routing and all users can select and use it. If I really want the developer to show complex boards then spend $1000.00  or more to get a fully supported design software that suit your needs. This software was announced purely for free access on this forum. Most hobbyist will be quite happy with it, it is perfectly capable to create RF design, although it may take  bit of routing expertise to do it compared to specialised software applications, I don't really know as I have not yet created a software design yet, not really needed to as yet.

Trolls in this case are people that impart their methodology as the only alternative to software design. If you are so wanting your methodology then YOU design a PCB software yourself, show me your PCB design software and see if it copes well with other users. In the meantime I am quite happy with the methodology for DEX and happy to create my own PCB using my manual method without Auto-routing. If you cant do this then you are pretty useless at your job as a professional PCB designer.

If it cant do the task then mention why it can't not that the software designer can't do it. First year learning at Uni is that not all electronics engineers are experts is all fields, especially between software and hardware aspects. Much of the design criteria is outsource to different people. This is a user feedback software not a blurt feedback software. Even noted that Dave is not comfortable around mains and is not an expert in RF, so why are you expecting Iliya to be as well.

I would be happy to provide DEX a design but at this stage not enough time for me to do this. So hopefully some other user will provide a good cct board demonstration for DEX to display when they have time.

Personally, and I have mentioned this Iliya should not have used this forum as an announcement platform for his software but I think most real users and not evaluators understand the real functionality benefit but most importantly the behaviour of non trolls to ask and shall receive. Blurt and you will be pissed on.

It is free access and this is not the forum that provides the best support for free stuff (expectations are too high).
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Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #352 on: February 10, 2015, 11:18:36 am »
For Monkey, Jeez, do you not understand DEX is a PCB Schematic software developer and is not trying to demonstrate what is suppose to be your skills in PCB design. Let him get on with designing and improving the software and you get on with techniques you learn in university.

This video suits you to a tee, showed it before but it seems that Monkey/h may not have seen it.


I like this video. A very useful device for some.
Funny thing is, when the Trolls come out to play, my downloads rate goes up.  :-//
I would ignore them but their rants help me sell AutoTRAX ;D So my sincere thanks go to them all.

For non-trolls you can download AutoTRAX from http://kov.com/
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 07:12:34 am by Iliya »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #353 on: February 10, 2015, 12:45:56 pm »
It's funny how the definition of troll has slightly changed to "person who doesn't agree with me".
 

Offline 4cx10000

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #354 on: February 10, 2015, 01:35:27 pm »
Well, guess it all depends on how you put things. We all write in different ways and sometimes, what was meant as help more or less look like criticism or even subtle sarcasm. I have tried to get into DEX but it clearly got some routines that is awkward compared to what I am used to. No matter what I think, there is always dissimilarity's  between vendors and the only thing you can do is to catch up with an new environment - if you like. But, at the end, it is up to you if you have got the time doing it, thinking of those already been into business for years and uses 1000$-or-less-software. For new users, ie hobbyists as well as pro's, DEX is excellent, but there is quite a few things that could be better and that is what Ilya try to accomplish with help from us. That is my 2 Swedish crowns  :)

I will get back with a few things I find a bit mysterious which can not be found in the help.
 

Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #355 on: February 10, 2015, 02:25:11 pm »
Is DEX Radical?

Yes, and that’s the problem.

As in Websters dictionary:
   very different from the usual or traditional
   very new and different from what is traditional or ordinary
    slang :  excellent, cool

I find new users of PCB cad take to DEX like a duck to water.

However the problem is with the ‘seasoned’ PCB designers. It’s like teaching an old dog new tricks. Learning a new trick or skill is often painful. For instance, I know C# and C++ very well and programming in both is easy. I don’t have to think about the syntax, grammar or semantics. Recently I had to learn Javascript. It hurt. But now I’ve learnt it my web site is better.

It’s the same with long time PCB designers. The tool they use is ‘natural’ to them. They have forgotten about the pain they went through initially. Now DEX comes along and is different. Ah the pain. However some old dogs hold out and learn it (Yes they do exist) but for some the pain is too much and they go back to the way they know, and for some they resent it and bite back and prance around howling. Remember the Luddites; thank good I’m 1000s of mile away from most of them. On the internet, these resentful old dogs turn into Trolls, barking at everything that challenges their way.

As for Trolls, well, car drivers can behave the same. You’ve seen them. Their signature theme is the ‘finger’ or in the UK, the V sign. They would never do that outside the car. Imagine going around a shopping centre, pushing into queues and tell people to F*** off.
My advice, If you don’t like DEX, that’s fine. Go and use what you like. But please stop whining on about it, you just make yourself look bad.

I suppose DEX is like Marmite.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 02:45:56 pm by Iliya »
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #356 on: February 10, 2015, 03:14:27 pm »
If you tell me what your project is then I'll do it in DEX and you can do it in your program and we can compare. Sounds great to me. I'm sure everybody will look to compare the results.
P.S. Please bear in mind I'm not a professional PCB designer.

It's a spare time project and far from a finished PCB, but if you want to have a shot, we can simplify it to the basics.

Do a 7 port USB hub, self powered, with a high frequency switching power supply from 19V input for power (~4A @ 5V, also almost certainly a 3.3V rail at ~0.5A for the hub). Standards compliant and correct differential and single ended impedance (that'll mean 4 layers, typically.. other requirements in my project push me to that anyway). Something likely to pass USB certification.

This'll get you doing QFNs, high frequency power, controlled impedance, and dense layout.. And no, before someone calls me out on it, there's no dual row QFN involved in this, that was just an example of a slightly more complex footprint.

Bearing in mind you're not a professional PCB designer (nor am I, mind you), this may be quite a steep order. However, it's the sort of thing you need to show if you want to sell your program to people doing such layouts, for work or hobby. This is the sort of project free_electron was going to be making as a demonstration piece for you.
Here a design for USB stick (lab version) with AutoTRAX, 4 layers, internal power/ground planes.
Quick route with Electra.  Did it this afternoon.

ZigBee

Not finished yet. Should do tomorrow.
Good. Improvement. It looks like it is possible to draw clean schematics , although even in this one there is still one quirky connection at the ground pin of the regulator (missing dot)

The pcb ? Yuck. That's. Not going to fly... Not at 2.4GHz ...  But that's due to the fact this thing was autorouted
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Online nctnico

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #357 on: February 10, 2015, 03:27:11 pm »
Just quit using the autorouter. It is incapable of routing boards with 2.4GHz RF (where are the matched impedance traces?) and other critical traces like the ones to the USB connector. I strongly doubt your design will even work with the poorly routed USB traces.
You say you are not a professional PCB designer and it shows. Nothing against that but just don't try to sell us the autorouter results because they totally suck for critical traces. Actually I have not used an autorouter for decades because modern PCBs with surface mounted components don't lend themselves very well for autorouting. I think I can route your Zigby example by hand with most of the traces on the top layer. What is most important for a good PCB package is to be able to edit traces quickly. I'm not saying that your ideas are wrong but try to listen to what 'we' find important in a PCB design package.

Two answers, don't use the auto-router yourself, and don't use the program!

I think most if not all PCB design software have auto routing and all users can select and use it. If I really want the developer to show complex boards then spend $1000.00  or more to get a fully supported design software that suit your needs. This software was announced purely for free access on this forum. Most hobbyist will be quite happy with it, it is perfectly capable to create RF design, although it may take  bit of routing expertise to do it compared to specialised software applications, I don't really know as I have not yet created a software design yet, not really needed to as yet.
In short: You are missing my point completely!
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Offline snoopy

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #358 on: February 10, 2015, 11:50:53 pm »
It's funny how the definition of troll has slightly changed to "person who doesn't agree with me".

That's the usual definition on forums where an objective debate is not welcome  |O
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #359 on: February 11, 2015, 11:28:12 am »
I'm new to PCB software, so, understandably, my opinion doesn't count for much. Nevertheless, I enjoy using DEX and feel that for hobbyists, it is a fantastic tool.
The program may not suit professionals yet, but it seems that Iliya is 100% committed to its success. Quick revisions and instant access to the developer is worth gold in my world. Should you wish for a meaningful missing feature, there is a good prospect that Ilyia would update the software in record time, to satisfy your requirements.
I am grateful that he made it free of charge for non-commercial use and wish DEX all the best for the future.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 11:54:34 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #360 on: February 11, 2015, 11:35:40 am »
I'm a long time CAD user but liking DEX quite a lot.
I like its menu system & mode of operation etc too. Once Iliya has worked on the bugs it should be an excellent pcb design tool. Once it is updated, I don't believe users would complain about paying $100. The developer needs to eat you know.

I notice that almost 12000 people have read this thread. Given that it was only started by free_electron on the 25th January, this means that (averagely) it is being viewed 800 times each day.

Quote
Eagle gets quite awkward when trying to work with tracks surrounded by a ground plane, for example.
Hint for you: Remove the ground plane, update the tracks & repour the ground plane.
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline ozwolf

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #361 on: February 11, 2015, 11:47:56 am »
Although I'm just a hobbyist (no commercial intent), I've decided that the license is worth it.  Now I'm committed to learning DEX, I've paid for it!

I tried to use Eagle for a while, even to the point of etching a board, but wasn't happy.  I've seen and heard enough in this discussion to believe this is a better package over all.

To put this in perspective for the discussion here, a carton of beer is about $42 (AUD).  The fee of $49 (US => $65 AUD) is about 1.5 cartons of beer.  That pleasure may last me a month or two.  I expect the pleasure of using DEX to last a lot longer than that!!

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Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #362 on: February 11, 2015, 01:37:42 pm »
-REVIEW TIME-
OK. here we go.  i am picking up on the video posted to create the battery holder footprint and symbol.
Follow along by launching dex and having the video up and running in a browser

startup of dex :
- does not remember what monitor it was running on last. Pops up UNDER other windows open. This is annoying as you wait and wait for it to launch and it actually wants you to click something .. that window should be set to front and be application or even system modal. the licence window also pops up on a different monitor than where dex is launching (the splashscreen with the guy with the drill ). keep that on one screen please. my eyes are focused there and something pops up outside my field of view.

-norton throws another fit and slams on the firewall once the main DEX launches. This needs looking at. Don't blame norton. All my other software plays nice and does not have this problem.

Follow along video until 2:15 where we change units.
at 2:24 we enter the number 20

here is something i want : the capability to not have fidget with the units menu. give me the possibility to type in 20mm or 20mil or 2in. almost any cad or drawing program out there does that. it is counterproductive to go mouse over to do such a simple action. if no suffix is provided use current system.
For ergonomics : that indicator inches/millimeters is too far away from the data entry field. the current units should be displayed immediately after the entry field.

Now i am going to deviate a little bit from the video as i want to explore this pad manipulation a bit.

Entering 20 (provided we are set up in milimeters ) moves that pad to 20:0 (x:y). good

Let's say we make a 3 pad component. the pitch is 0.675 mm. this starts being annoying. i need a calculator for that.
So i would like to see expressions in the entry fields so i am able to do the following:
20 <enter>  -> set to 20 whatever units we are in
20mm <enter> -> set to 20mm irrespective of what units we are in
-20mm <enter> -> set to negative 20 irrespective of what unis we are in
x + 20 <enter> -> add 20 units to current location of x
x + 20mm <enter> -> add 20 mm to current location of object irrespective of what units we are in.
x - 20mm <enter> -> subtract 20 mm from current location irrespective of units.

That way i can place pad on top of an existing one , select it and type x+0.675mm and done. this pad is now offset by  0.675mm

i have not found a way to set the grid to a step size. I may be missing something here but here is something i also want :
 tell Dex i want an x size grid of 0.675mm and a y size grid of 2 mm. let's assume i make a 6 pin DFN package. pad pitch is 0.675 mm and row pitch is 2mm. by setting up the grid to these spacings and turning SNAP on. i can now very quickly place the pads where they need to be.

back to DEX
- now, we have two pads on the screen. let's size em . select BOTH pads (shift click ) and in the 'size' field   type 2. What just happened  ? we had one round and one square pad. they are now both square ? -BUG-

- click on the left pad and look at the numbers given ffor the origin. 0.007874 by 0.025591 in my case. we set the origin to the pad so it should read  0:0 it doesn't -BUG-

- so let's try to set BOTH pads to a Y origin of 1. select both pads (shift-click), click in the Y field. you get some really long numbers there ( -0.0000000030279 in my case ) -BUG- the coordinate system in dex is off. this needs fixing. Especially if i set origin on pad1: x and y should read 0 and 0 not some whacky numbers )
Type 2.  only 1 pad moves. multiselect edit doesnt work right -BUG-

i want the capability to select a bunch of objects and tell dex : set them to this y or x coordinate ( simply to align them properly for example ) like moving a column of pads all to the same x spot , keeping y as is.
i also want to keep what i wrote earlier : in a multiselect being able to type x +20mm or x-0.675mm and other permutations.

these are basic coordinate operations that all CAD tools can do. DEX ? fix it please ?

another bug : sometimes selecting the second pad does not work. set pad 1 at 0:2 , pad 2 at 12.7:0
click pad 1 in the centre of the hole
now click pad 2 in the area before where the first vertical grid line passes through it. it will not always select. sometimes the part border is being selected sometimes the properties field changes to 'origin' instead of the pad properties. DEX has spatial selection problems -BUG- (note i am not specifically 'fishing' for things to nitpick on, this is just stuff that happens as i am prodding around. so i am reporting it ) play around by clicking pad 1 and then clicking pad2  and slightly shifting where on pad 2 you click. you will get all kinds of strange behavior.

now on the origin setting : i want a few options in there
- center of pin 1
- center of selected pin (i select pin first then right click origin and select 'center of selected pin')
- gravitational center of entire object ( this draws the smallest possible bounding box that encompasses all drawn objects and uses the center of the bounding box as the 0:0 location) . this is sometimes called the centroid ( which happens also to be the pick point for the pick and place machines )
- corner of outline ( let me click on what corner i want )

that way a can correctly set 0:0 on a pin or on the center of a footprint. this is important once we start placing parts on the pcb design to align them on interstitionals for the pick and place machine. we can set the placement grid to the stitch or a fraction of the stitch so we have  an opening between parts leaving one or two routing channels. this simplifies the layout work tremendously.
typically part origins are centroid as it makes the pnp easier.

OK. enough playing with pads and coordinates. back to the video

at 3:00 we change U into B. why ? this should be driven from schematic. especially since at 3:01 we go to schematic and there it still reads U and needs changing there as well. it is the schematic that drives the designator labeling on the board. they need to be linked. there is no need to set this up in the pcb footprint editor. and if you want to do it there then the schematic symbol must stay in sync -bug-

more to follow ...
-breakfast gobbled down-

ok, we are still in building the PCB footprint
That white 'auto created' rectangle just has to go. first of all : not every part is a rectangle. there's round ones, l-shaped ones. and that battery holder itself is a circle with a protrusion. Second: that autogenerated courtyard has a slanted corner , presumably indicating where pin one is. in a PLCC package that pin does not sit in a corner. also for this battery it does not sit in a corner. I am fine with DEX generating such a thing but i need to be able to kill it if i don't want it. 
there seems also to be a 'lock between the courtyard and the silkscreen. this also not correct. the courtyard is always LARGER than anything belonging to the part. In a PCB layout program the spatial rule checker goes by courtyard or by 3D object (if it knows how to do that). the base rule is : courtyards do not touch nor overlap. Courtyards are defined according to placement rules for the production machinery. that is what courtyards are for. to make sure the board is manufacturable. for example : certain connectors need a courtyard that is 5 mm outside of the outward pins because they will be selectively soldered by a machine. no parts should be within that area.

it may be possible to create your own courtyards ( arbitrary shape ) and own silkscreens ( arbitrary shape ) but i can;t figure it out. if it is possible :video please. you can use that battery holder. make the silkscreen roughly like the actual outline and the courtyard a bit larger than that.

right now the auto generated one us is useless. one of the things i was going to do is create correct PCB footprints for the sample project : without the ability to create courtyards and custom silkscreen that is not possible.

Back to video :
schematic symbol editing.

we got two pins and a rectangle still labeled U ( although we changed it in the PCB to B ) . it is illogical that this is not linked. like i said before it is the schematic that drives the PCB, not reverse.

we kill off the rectangle. and now we 'drag' a battery symbol that 'magically ' appears. what if i want a symbol that does not sit in this 'magical' pool. how do i draw one ? can i just select 'add' and start drawing shapes ? -edit- apparently yes. GREAT !

Now we have Designator (U)  and something called 'Value'. can i add other strings linked to parameters ?  For example for my resistors i want to show a field with tolerance and power , for capacitors i want  a field showing working voltage and dielectric ( in case of ceramics ). that information must be stored in the library.

i can set both a name and a pin number. good. but : can i move the actual strings ?i found how to hide the 'dot' ( red circle) but the number is not where i want it to be. so i need to be able to move the number , leaving the electrical hotspot ( the red circle) where i set it ( even if it is invisible )

A neat thing in DEX : auto repeat last command . when adding a line , instead of having to mouse back to the menu to add another line , right-click and select 'auto repeat' and you can directly draw additional lines.  :-+  like it.
An annoyance : if you place text with auto repeat on you immediately get the edit box again. hitting <ESC> doesn't work.  traditional windows behavior on such selection dialogues is <ESC> = cancel  <enter> = ok.  this is standard 'windows' behavior.

<ESC> and <ENTER> should always function as cancel / OK in dialogues.

i'm not going into the 3d stuff as STEP files are not handled. The prevalent industry exchange standard is STEP and/or IGES (3dcontentcentral and many manufacturers websites). So we need DEX to mesh with those formats. anything else requires just additional effort and additional tools we need to have and learn. I will create/translate some of the required models for the library i will build. ( Rhino can read and write almost any format out there including STL and XGL , so i can easily translate step to those formats. But not everyone has Rhino and at 900$ a licence it costs many times the cost of DEX, so STEP is mandatory ! )

 we now have create a footprint and assigned a symbol to it.
Questions :

- how do i link one pcb footprint to multiple schematic symbols. and how do link 1 schematic symbol to multiple footprints ?

For example an 0805 resistor linked to two different schematic symbols ( one US and european symbol for example ) or one symbol defined as 1k and one defined as 2k2

other way around :
a 74ls00 , once in DIP package , once in SO package , once in TSSOp package.  same schematic symbol : different footprint.

What about multipart symbols ? a 7400 is 4 NAND gates. i want to be able to place each gate as an indidual element and mark them U1A U1B U1C etc ... how do i create a multipart symbol ?

Good. at least i have a base now to start building a mini library the parts i want , the way i want them , to make a nice demo board.


-note- clicking help on 'courtyard' gives this : "You edit courtyards like editing keep pout regions" i keep on pouting ... ( i know i know, i pound my keyboard with ham-fists .. so i should not play spelling police here)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 03:48:54 pm by free_electron »
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Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #363 on: February 11, 2015, 02:40:18 pm »
-norton throws another fit and slams on the firewall once the main DEX launches. This needs looking at. Don't blame norton. All my other software plays nice and does not have this problem.

Norton shits its pants whenever an application that isn't on its giant whitelist of non-evil software. It might have already sent a sample of DEX back to Norton HQ for analysis. Having a supply of replacement underwear is unfortunately par for the course with Norton, and its constant crying "wolf" only trains users to dismiss its warnings.

i said don't blame norton.   all you got to do is play nice. Dex is sending UDP packets to strange adresses. there is no need for that. there are other mechanisms that will not trip a firewall.
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Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #364 on: February 11, 2015, 03:38:41 pm »
The button battery project is available from:

http:/kov.com/downloadFiles/lm2914.zip

Remember, it is a quick demo to convert the circuit shown a few days ago. I used it to create the demo video.
There's no doubt there are somethings that need to be changed. Let's not be like old women when you look at it. :) It's the principle that matters.

Took less than 1 hour. If I was not recording it to video it would take far less.

If you don't like it the go back to Eagle/Altium/Kircad. DEX is clearly not for you.


« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 07:11:56 am by Iliya »
 

Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #365 on: February 11, 2015, 03:52:48 pm »


Let's say we make a 3 pad component. the pitch is 0.675 mm. this starts being annoying. i need a calculator for that.


It's in front of you :o
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #366 on: February 11, 2015, 03:57:47 pm »
it is not about liking or not liking. It is about making the software USABLE.

i have stated this multiple times : my goal is still to make a nice demo board with it , but the software has to let me. there are rules to be followed when doing a board design. The software has to let me play by those rules. taking the 'apple' stance and going "you don't need that , it's our way or the highway " does not work in the PCB world. right now DEX has a bunch of rough edges that need polishing and it has a bunch of really annoying bugs and shortcomings that even basic cad programs can do.

I'm not even talking pcb cad tools. For example : a simple multi-edit doesn't work in dex . that is BASIC functionality in any given GUI driven program . being able to select one or more objects and change a parameter for all of em. that is basic UI design. same with enter and escape keys. that is basic in any windows based dialogue. these are things that are very easy to handle as a programmer. all you have to trap is the keyhit event on the form and check for <enter> or <esc> and invoke the form abort and exit or apply and exit routines. it's 5 lines of code tops . trap the key event handler , check for esc or enter and call the function you already call from the OK or Cancel button.

You may think this is'silly' and 'nitpicking' but a good user interface is key , especially when one first starts with a program. all other programs out there already use ESC and ENTER and GUI user are conditioned such way that this is ubiquitous. then tring to use a program that odes not have this universal behavior is like having one hand tied behind your back. it is perceived as an annoyance.

i am not writing this to annoy you , i am writing this so you can make the program better.
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #367 on: February 11, 2015, 04:00:54 pm »
Search for Norton false positive

I get 432,000 results from Google.

Click Control Panel->Programs-Uninstall and remove Norton.

Don't use Kaspersky. It blocked my Microsoft Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate from working. Quick uninstall of Kaspersky worked wonders.

I suggest you ask for your money back and use AVG, it's free.

http:://www.kov.com is not a strange web site. (well not to me!)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 07:11:04 am by Iliya »
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #368 on: February 11, 2015, 04:06:30 pm »


Let's say we make a 3 pad component. the pitch is 0.675 mm. this starts being annoying. i need a calculator for that.


It's in front of you :o
but not obvious that there is a calculator there. anyway GREAT  :-+. parameter entry boxes typically do not have pull down menu's hidden on em.

i cannot find the pitch setting you show. where is that hidden ?

anyway it is not just 'pitch' i really want a grid system where i can say x step is this, y step is that. this has to do with drawing. not all datasheets give you 'easily' usable numbers. i hate calculation. so simple resetting the origin and changing the grids i can let the software do the work for me. that works faster than me having to do it on a calculator. it's not just footprint creation but also parts placement. I also want polar grids so i can place parts on arcs. or pads on arcs. or stich via's on arcs. i also want to be able to paste nad rotate ( maybe that is already in dex, i am jumping ahead here into an area i have not explored yet. i first want to create MY footprints and MY schematic symbols, seed them with the information , link them and build a correct workable library. We'll deal with the other steps when we get there.
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Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #369 on: February 11, 2015, 04:11:46 pm »
Click Control Panel->Programs-Uninstall and remove Norton.
control panel -> uninstall DEX and block. use time better.
happy now ? (if you are going to blast back, i will blast back )

i will not uninstall norton. it has kept my machines virus free for 20 years and it works.

The false positive no longer triggers on autotrax. ( i downloaded the latest dex this morning ) . this time it is the firewall tripping up when it detects a UDP packet leaving to some IP adress . such things are flagged as 'suspicious'


anyway, off to work now. i will pick this up tonight or tomorrow and build a few parts to start. i have the base functionality and the video you made was enough to get me started. I'll post back whenever i have issues. if i run into hard problems during the lib creation i will file bug reports.

The 'resume' i wrote above is just me following along with the video and exploring a few things a bit and finding annoyances and problems.

one 'blocking' question is : 1 footprint - multipe schematic symbols. how do i do that ?
i only want to make a single footprint for a 0805 and tie it to different schematic symbols , each having it's own datasheet and part number and value.

for example i want a 1K 0805 from rohm , digikey part no 458-2345 linked ot RES_0805 footprint
i also want a 4K7 0805 fomr Yageo with this pdf fiel and that part number from mouser 478-NDU-234 linked ot the same RES_0805 footprint

so create mulitple schematic symbols , each with attached datasheet and order code and value and tolerance and voltage and whetever other data i feel fit to stuff in my library and link em to a pcb symbol. so, when the time comes to create production data like pick and place data, bill of material etc everything rolls out.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 04:17:31 pm by free_electron »
Professional Electron Wrangler.
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Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #370 on: February 11, 2015, 04:21:01 pm »
it is not about liking or not liking. It is about making the software USABLE.

i have stated this multiple times : my goal is still to make a nice demo board with it , but the software has to let me. there are rules to be followed when doing a board design. The software has to let me play by those rules. taking the 'apple' stance and going "you don't need that , it's our way or the highway " does not work in the PCB world. right now DEX has a bunch of rough edges that need polishing and it has a bunch of really annoying bugs and shortcomings that even basic cad programs can do.

I'm not even talking pcb cad tools. For example : a simple multi-edit doesn't work in dex . that is BASIC functionality in any given GUI driven program . being able to select one or more objects and change a parameter for all of em. that is basic UI design. same with enter and escape keys. that is basic in any windows based dialogue. these are things that are very easy to handle as a programmer. all you have to trap is the keyhit event on the form and check for <enter> or <esc> and invoke the form abort and exit or apply and exit routines. it's 5 lines of code tops . trap the key event handler , check for esc or enter and call the function you already call from the OK or Cancel button.

You may think this is'silly' and 'nitpicking' but a good user interface is key , especially when one first starts with a program. all other programs out there already use ESC and ENTER and GUI user are conditioned such way that this is ubiquitous. then tring to use a program that odes not have this universal behavior is like having one hand tied behind your back. it is perceived as an annoyance.

i am not writing this to annoy you , i am writing this so you can make the program better.

You need to use an upper case i if you want to be taken seriously.  Now that’s like you, nick picking, but if you did it in a CV!
You say you have found bugs. No reports filed!
To be quite honest, I have no faith in your procedure and feel it will be of little use except for the Trolls who will lap it up, (they will soon be posting). You may find that it makes you a bit ‘all fingers and thumbs’ and does your reputation harm.
See how others do reviews (not on eeblog.com).

Here is an example.
http://www.visioncircuits.com/blog/

I still doubt your motives. You will never use DEX and are a dyed-in-the-wool Altium user with a set way of doing things. DEX is not Altium (thank God!)
 

Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #371 on: February 11, 2015, 04:26:30 pm »
but not obvious that there is a calculator there. anyway GREAT  :-+. parameter entry boxes typically do not have pull down menu's hidden on em.
See the attachments in the last post. It's in the tooltip! Added tooltips screenshot again.
 

Offline mswhin63

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #372 on: February 11, 2015, 04:28:45 pm »
-norton throws another fit and slams on the firewall once the main DEX launches. This needs looking at. Don't blame norton. All my other software plays nice and does not have this problem.

Norton shits its pants whenever an application that isn't on its giant whitelist of non-evil software. It might have already sent a sample of DEX back to Norton HQ for analysis. Having a supply of replacement underwear is unfortunately par for the course with Norton, and its constant crying "wolf" only trains users to dismiss its warnings.

I don't seem to have a problem at all with Norton. Works fine no interruption and worked well from VISTA, Windows 7 and Windows 8. Not sure why you all having problems.
.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #373 on: February 11, 2015, 04:46:20 pm »
Actually what I often do is close the file and re-open it, to return the polygon to an outline. There is a command to do that but I always forget it... Who needs to remember obscure CLI commands for a graphical CAD package?

You just unroute the polygon. You can also select it and change the pour type to cutout.

Search for Norton false positive

I get 432,000 results from Google.

Click Control Panel->Programs-Uninstall and remove Norton.

Don't use Kaspersky. It blocked my Microsoft Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate from working. Quick uninstall of Kaspersky worked wonders.

I suggest you ask for your money back and use AVG, it's free.

http:://www.kov.com is not a strange web site. (well not to me!)

Everything has false positives. It is your job to speak to Norton to resolve them for your software.
 

Offline Iliya

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Re: DEX eval by free_electron
« Reply #374 on: February 11, 2015, 06:55:18 pm »
Actually what I often do is close the file and re-open it, to return the polygon to an outline. There is a command to do that but I always forget it... Who needs to remember obscure CLI commands for a graphical CAD package?

You just unroute the polygon. You can also select it and change the pour type to cutout.

Search for Norton false positive

I get 432,000 results from Google.

Click Control Panel->Programs-Uninstall and remove Norton.

Don't use Kaspersky. It blocked my Microsoft Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate from working. Quick uninstall of Kaspersky worked wonders.

I suggest you ask for your money back and use AVG, it's free.

http:://www.pcb.software is not a strange web site. (well not to me!)

Everything has false positives. It is your job to speak to Norton to resolve them for your software.

I already have a file provided by Norton on my website to identify my site as safe.
http://kov.com/nortonsw_8b54b780-6c64-0.html

See
https://safeweb.norton.com/report/show?url=kov.com

View attached.

It is not my place to tell Norton their software is wrong. It is my place to advice you to replace Norton with one that works.


« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 07:11:32 am by Iliya »
 


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