DEX eval by free_electron

[tautech]

I have now done all the videos asked for/promised.

This video shows you how to create the part for a button battery used in the previous singled sided PCB demo. It shows you how to create the footprint/land pattern, the symbol and how to import a 3D model.
Click to view...

This video show you how to plot the demo PCB artwork, output files for a CNC cuttter and how to zip up all the Gerber files, Bill of Materials file, NC drill file and pick and place file for manufacturing. It also show you how to preview the Gerber files.
Click to view...

So that's it. I suggest you take AutoTRAX for a drive yourself. http://www.kov.com

Have you a downloadable manual that covers many of these steps?
Thinking of users that might not have a fast connection for watching Videos?
Or to put it on a tablet for some spare time reading?

[donotdespisethesnake]

It's a strange world, but if a software license specifies a condition of use, and you don't follow that, then at the very least the author is entitled to withdraw his permission to use that software (under general copyright law, may vary by jurisdiction).

And those conditions can be *anything* the author decides (provided it does not contravene other laws, moral rights etc). Eg. a valid condition could be to not remove identifying marks from generated work, as in PDF print processors that embed "Created by MagixPDF" in the output.

But since the imprint in the Gerbers does not appear to be a condition of the DEX license, removing it has no consequence. However, regardless of the imprint, using the Gerbers generated by DEX for commercial use without such license granted would be a violation of terms, even if the copyright to the produced gerbers belongs to the user.

As for extensive punitive damages, I think that is just hot air. Probably the worst case is you would be requested to pay $49, plus a donation to our lawyer friends. 

Anyway, back to scheduled programming

[Iliya]

I have now done all the videos asked for/promised.

This video shows you how to create the part for a button battery used in the previous singled sided PCB demo. It shows you how to create the footprint/land pattern, the symbol and how to import a 3D model.
Click to view...

This video show you how to plot the demo PCB artwork, output files for a CNC cuttter and how to zip up all the Gerber files, Bill of Materials file, NC drill file and pick and place file for manufacturing. It also show you how to preview the Gerber files.
Click to view...

So that's it. I suggest you take AutoTRAX for a drive yourself. http://www.kov.com

Have you a downloadable manual that covers many of these steps?
Thinking of users that might not have a fast connection for watching Videos?
Or to put it on a tablet for some spare time reading?

ePub (iPAD) http://kov.com/Download/eBook
PDF http://kov.com/Download/Manual

[rsjsouza]

I have now done all the videos asked for/promised.

Thanks for the effort. This is a very interesting video series that will surely help DEX newbies like me to get started.

[Iliya]

I have now done all the videos asked for/promised.

Thanks for the effort. This is a very interesting video series that will surely help DEX newbies like me to get started.

Thanks to you. It's great to be appreciated. There are now 100 videos. I am going to finish off integrating them into the manual and will do a AutoTRAX 101 based on the last few videos. More work, no peace for the wicked.   

[Iliya]

Mick Gulovsen sent me links to his boards made with AutoTRAX DEX.

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/06%20NanoMite/NanoMite.pdf

You will see the schematic wire jumpers that some of you love so much.

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/index.php

Thanks Mick. 

[Monkeh]

Mick Gulovsen sent me links to his boards made with AutoTRAX DEX.

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/06%20NanoMite/NanoMite.pdf

You will see the schematic wire jumpers that some of you love so much.

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/index.php

Thanks Mick. 

Do you have any examples of more complex boards?

[Iliya]

Mick Gulovsen sent me links to his boards made with AutoTRAX DEX.

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/06%20NanoMite/NanoMite.pdf

You will see the schematic wire jumpers that some of you love so much.

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/index.php

Thanks Mick. 

Do you have any examples of more complex boards?

Sorry none from users. Why? Well, would you reveal your complex design to the world? I know they exists but I can't show them.

[Monkeh]

Sorry none from users. Why? Well, would you reveal your complex design to the world? I know they exists but I can't show them.

I'd be happy to, when it's done. But so far I've yet to see anyone do a four to six layer board with dual row QFNs and controlled impedance in DEX.. Little breakout type boards are not exactly great advertisement.

[IconicPCB]

Monkeh,

Look forward to seeing Your work

[Monkeh]

Monkeh,

Look forward to seeing Your work

If I complete the project, you likely will. It is not, however, being made in DEX. I do not have the time to dedicate to learning a new tool when I already have one.

[Iliya]

Monkeh,

Look forward to seeing Your work

If I complete the project, you likely will. It is not, however, being made in DEX. I do not have the time to dedicate to learning a new tool when I already have one.

If you tell me what your project is then I'll do it in DEX and you can do it in your program and we can compare. Sounds great to me. I'm sure everybody will look to compare the results.
P.S. Please bear in mind I'm not a professional PCB designer.

[Monkeh]

If you tell me what your project is then I'll do it in DEX and you can do it in your program and we can compare. Sounds great to me. I'm sure everybody will look to compare the results.
P.S. Please bear in mind I'm not a professional PCB designer.

It's a spare time project and far from a finished PCB, but if you want to have a shot, we can simplify it to the basics.

Do a 7 port USB hub, self powered, with a high frequency switching power supply from 19V input for power (~4A @ 5V, also almost certainly a 3.3V rail at ~0.5A for the hub). Standards compliant and correct differential and single ended impedance (that'll mean 4 layers, typically.. other requirements in my project push me to that anyway). Something likely to pass USB certification.

This'll get you doing QFNs, high frequency power, controlled impedance, and dense layout.. And no, before someone calls me out on it, there's no dual row QFN involved in this, that was just an example of a slightly more complex footprint.

Bearing in mind you're not a professional PCB designer (nor am I, mind you), this may be quite a steep order. However, it's the sort of thing you need to show if you want to sell your program to people doing such layouts, for work or hobby. This is the sort of project free_electron was going to be making as a demonstration piece for you.

[IconicPCB]

Cheeky Monkeh,

Now You expect the electronics design work to be done as well?

Post Your schematic and BOM and I am sure someone will go to the bother of doing the artwork.

[Monkeh]

Cheeky Monkeh,

Now You expect the electronics design work to be done as well?

Post Your schematic and BOM and I am sure someone will go to the bother of doing the artwork.

Neither are complete. I have repeatedly said my design (which is not just a USB hub) is not finished.

I am afraid the entire process is part and parcel of working with an EDA, as well.

[Mechatrommer]

we can understand it takes time to design a complex board for "show-off" from developer side. it needs resources and "tremendous time" if the board need done correctly, checked, peer checked and EMI approved etc. imho its only for later stage of the marketing, for now we only need good documentation/video and "EFFICIENT" software to make a pcb. about the illegal "userbase", there are pros and cons as stated. for me, imho, iliya are going to need those "illegal userbase" for free marketing artillery promoting dex to the world at much faster rate. but only he get the free marketing only when the software is good enough ("EFFICIENT" from users point of view). making dex usable in trial mode is a wise decision by iliya, not like before that i have to email him to get a free license hence i wont touch it with 20ft pole tongue at the right angle.

[nctnico]

IMHO the whole 'complex board' discussion is moot. What you need for a board with -for example- an ARM SoC is the program not crashing or messing up a file, various via sizes, thin traces, copper pours (preferably with adjustable priority so you have to care less about overlapping pours), free vias to stitch ground planes together, good DRC and at least 6 layers. It's not much work to show that in a demo design. The rest comes down to being able to edit/move traces efficiently but that can only be tested by creating a (simple) board.

I'm actually more worried about component management. For a complex design creating a good bill-of-materials is very important and so far I have not seen people touch that aspect of DEX. Perhaps this video can serve as inspiration:

[bigmik]

Crikey!,

Thanks for the Plug Iliya but I hope my boards aren't taken as the best that can be done with DEX,

Mick Gulovsen sent me links to his boards made with AutoTRAX DEX.

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/06%20NanoMite/NanoMite.pdf

http://www.dontronics.com/micks-mites/files/index.php

I am just scratching the surface with using DEX but I am finding it more and more intuitive as I go..
Is it the BEST software out there for doing PCBs?? Probably Not!! But it is certainly a pretty comprehensive package and bugs and enhancements are fixed nearly every day. Iliya is contactable and willing to help if you can't get something to work.. I have been through a range of packages starting with Protel's SMARTTRAX, AUTOTRAX, PADS, PROTEL 98 and then PROTEL 99SE. I probably would still be using Protel99SE if it worked on windows7 and 8.1 PCs.. Then I found DEX and tried it and thought it looked good so bought an update subscription to it.. I haven't looked back, the only thing missing is a shaped based autorouter but Iliya hopes to have that out soon or you can pay the ARM, LEG and testicle that ELECTRA wants for their router package. I usually let the internal router do its thing and then manually act on that and push and pull and neaten up the tracks and minimise the vias etc.

I am sure that DEX would do a good job on 4, 6 & 8  layer boards but my purposes have been pretty basic. The most complex board I have done happens to be the smallest one, My NanoMite. This is 15mm x 15mm square and is designed to plug into a standard 8pin IC socket with approx. 0.1" (2.5mm) overhang all round. the tracks are down to the minimum most of the `prototype deals' want i.e 0.006" tracks and 0.006" spacings.

To put things into perspective I am a hobbyist and DEX fulfills all that I want in a PCB package (maybe the shape based router hint hint Iliya) I cant comment on the multi layer boards and EMF designs etc etc as I dont need that for what I do.

Regards,

Mick

[tautech]

Welcome to the forum Mick.

Many here just want the type of result that you have, an adequate PCB tool for hobbyist use.
We're all soaking up the input you and others are having to see if DEX has the right stuff for pro use.

Thanks for your input.

[snoopy]

I probably would still be using Protel99SE if it worked on windows7 and 8.1 PCs..

I've been using Protel 99SE on Windows 7 for the last two years but I had to patch the executable to get the library dialog to work correctly. Here's how to do it

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/51279-loading-library-file-protel-99-a-3.html

IMO it takes a lot for a modern entry level PCB package to compete with 99SE which was released way back in 2000 !

cheers

cheers

[bigmik]

I've been using Protel 99SE on Windows 7 for the last two years but I had to patch the executable to get the library dialog to work correctly. Here's how to do it

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/51279-loading-library-file-protel-99-a-3.html

IMO it takes a lot for a modern entry level PCB package to compete with 99SE which was released way back in 2000 !

Hi Snoopy,

I did patch one of my PC's several years ago and it worked but when I tried the same on my laptop (where I did/do most of my PCB files) it wouldnt work. I gathered at the time it was a difference between 32bit and 64bit windows.. I ended up using a virtual XP window to run Protel but this slowed the boot time EVERYTIME I booted my PC even if I wasnt doing PCB stuff so I had to look for another solution.
Also Protel was lacking just about every modern component as even USB wasnt around in those days so many parts had to be created from scratch. I figured a modern package would most likely have, if not the exact part, a similar part in its library.

I still have Protel99se as my employer has old legacy boards that occasionally need updating.

One thing I like about DEX is the Gerber view so you can check your gerber files before sending them off for manufacture..

Another thing is that Protel99se is owned by my employer, (cost $4000 15 years ago or so) At least I can feel comfortable that I own the rights to use DEX and there is no legal issue if/when I leave the company.

Regards,

Mick

[snoopy]

I've been using Protel 99SE on Windows 7 for the last two years but I had to patch the executable to get the library dialog to work correctly. Here's how to do it

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/51279-loading-library-file-protel-99-a-3.html

IMO it takes a lot for a modern entry level PCB package to compete with 99SE which was released way back in 2000 !

Hi Snoopy,

I did patch one of my PC's several years ago and it worked but when I tried the same on my laptop (where I did/do most of my PCB files) it wouldnt work. I gathered at the time it was a difference between 32bit and 64bit windows.. I ended up using a virtual XP window to run Protel but this slowed the boot time EVERYTIME I booted my PC even if I wasnt doing PCB stuff so I had to look for another solution.
Also Protel was lacking just about every modern component as even USB wasnt around in those days so many parts had to be created from scratch. I figured a modern package would most likely have, if not the exact part, a similar part in its library.

I still have Protel99se as my employer has old legacy boards that occasionally need updating.

One thing I like about DEX is the Gerber view so you can check your gerber files before sending them off for manufacture..

Another thing is that Protel99se is owned by my employer, (cost $4000 15 years ago or so) At least I can feel comfortable that I own the rights to use DEX and there is no legal issue if/when I leave the company.

Regards,

Mick

I was using the patched version of Protel99SE on a Windows 7 Pro 64 bit version and it ran fine and it certainly ran fine unpatched under Win XP

cheers

[Iliya]

If you tell me what your project is then I'll do it in DEX and you can do it in your program and we can compare. Sounds great to me. I'm sure everybody will look to compare the results.
P.S. Please bear in mind I'm not a professional PCB designer.

It's a spare time project and far from a finished PCB, but if you want to have a shot, we can simplify it to the basics.

Do a 7 port USB hub, self powered, with a high frequency switching power supply from 19V input for power (~4A @ 5V, also almost certainly a 3.3V rail at ~0.5A for the hub). Standards compliant and correct differential and single ended impedance (that'll mean 4 layers, typically.. other requirements in my project push me to that anyway). Something likely to pass USB certification.

This'll get you doing QFNs, high frequency power, controlled impedance, and dense layout.. And no, before someone calls me out on it, there's no dual row QFN involved in this, that was just an example of a slightly more complex footprint.

Bearing in mind you're not a professional PCB designer (nor am I, mind you), this may be quite a steep order. However, it's the sort of thing you need to show if you want to sell your program to people doing such layouts, for work or hobby. This is the sort of project free_electron was going to be making as a demonstration piece for you.

Here a design for USB stick (lab version) with AutoTRAX, 4 layers, internal power/ground planes.
Quick route with Electra.  Did it this afternoon.

ZigBee

Not finished yet. Should do tomorrow.

[Iliya]

If you tell me what your project is then I'll do it in DEX and you can do it in your program and we can compare. Sounds great to me. I'm sure everybody will look to compare the results.
P.S. Please bear in mind I'm not a professional PCB designer.

It's a spare time project and far from a finished PCB, but if you want to have a shot, we can simplify it to the basics.

Do a 7 port USB hub, self powered, with a high frequency switching power supply from 19V input for power (~4A @ 5V, also almost certainly a 3.3V rail at ~0.5A for the hub). Standards compliant and correct differential and single ended impedance (that'll mean 4 layers, typically.. other requirements in my project push me to that anyway). Something likely to pass USB certification.

This'll get you doing QFNs, high frequency power, controlled impedance, and dense layout.. And no, before someone calls me out on it, there's no dual row QFN involved in this, that was just an example of a slightly more complex footprint.

Bearing in mind you're not a professional PCB designer (nor am I, mind you), this may be quite a steep order. However, it's the sort of thing you need to show if you want to sell your program to people doing such layouts, for work or hobby. This is the sort of project free_electron was going to be making as a demonstration piece for you.

Here a design for USB stick (lab version) with AutoTRAX, 4 layers, internal power/ground planes.
Quick route with Electra.  Did it this afternoon.

ZigBee

Not finished yet. Should do tomorrow.

CC2531 USB Dongle Reference Design

Description

The CC2531USB-RD provides a PC interface to 802.15.4 / ZigBee applications. The dongle can be plugged directly into your PC and can be used as an IEEE 802.15.4 packet sniffer or for other purposes. With the CC2531 USB Firmware Library available on the web you can develop your own software to utilize this part. To program the dongle, an external programmer (e.g. the CC debugger or SmartRF05EB) is required. This is not included in the kit. The USB dongle can be used as a reference module for prototyping of USB devices and for testing the RF performance of CC2531 with a small size PCB antenna.

http://www.ti.com/tool/CC2531USB-RD

[Monkeh]

A beautiful example of why attempting to blindly autoplace and autoroute a complex board is a ridiculous idea..