DEX eval by free_electron

[Monkeh]

suspicious.cloud.7.ep is just one of Norton's massively oversensitive heuristics which flips out at the sight of anything they haven't vetted. 99% of the time this stuff is a false positive. One of the many reasons I dislike Norton. I don't pay people to waste my time, and that's what Symantec excel at.

[mrflibble]

suspicious.cloud.7.ep is just one of Norton's massively oversensitive heuristics which flips out at the sight of anything they haven't vetted. 99% of the time this stuff is a false positive. One of the many reasons I dislike Norton. I don't pay people to waste my time, and that's what Symantec excel at.

Indeed. If you do a quick google on suspicious.cloud.7.ep you'll find loads of complaints regarding false positives. Would be a tad unfortunate to throw something out with baby, bath water (and rubber ducky, nooo) purely based on this poor heuristic. Personally I wouldn't even install norton if I got paid for it. well, okay, that's a lie. Pay me enough and I'll install it on a box that I park in a corner somewhere. And the rest of the money goes into something useful.

Short version: don't ditch software based solely on that particular message.

[G0HZU]

This is not beta software. Why are there still so many issues with units or the simple task of drawing and moving a rectangle? How are we to know that these are bugs to report and not quirks with the program design? Makes me wonder about the integrity of the software when going through more demanding tasks...

Big and bad bugs can crop up in any software. I've found plenty of bugs in some of Agilent's RF simulation software that costs $$$. Some bugs that are unforgivable even in freeware. Eg basic stuff like the schematic losing synch with the underlying netlist. So you can have components that are no longer connected on the schematic that are still in the simulation netlist as connected. So they affect the simulation results. This was on a product that was nearly FIVE YEARS old from Agilent and cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Fast forward another 5 years after this I could easily adopt free_electron's approach and fish for GUI bugs in the same product. It isn't difficult to find annoying issues and limitations even on stuff that is 10 years old from a huge company like Agilent who have a whole team of developers and beta testers behind them...

[Mechatrommer]

Big and bad bugs can crop up in any software.

agree. but we expect professional and humble reply from development team. not insulting, accusing and defensive. at the very least we expect a reply like "we will look into that" or "we will keep that in view" or if what we suggested is against their "principle" give a good reason why. even if an OSHW have a developer's attitude like "that guy" i doubt the OSHW will never go.

[tautech]

but we expect professional and humble reply from development team. not insulting, accusing and defensive. at the very least we expect a reply like "we will look into that" or "we will keep that in view" or if what we suggested is against their "principle" give a good reason why. even if an OSHW have a developer's attitude like "that guy" i doubt the OSHW will never go.

Yep. Attention to detail required.
Like his post on P 3 of this thread where he kindly provided a link to http://kov.com/. 

Except he got the syntax wrong. 
The link provided does not work and needs be fixed, see:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/dex-eval-by-free_electron/msg594305/#msg594305

[G0HZU]

I think you have to make allowances when dealing with people who stand out from the crowd. If DEX really is a one man band then it is an amazing feat and must have taken loads of skill, determination and patience over many years. People like this deserve lots of respect even if they do have a short fuse when dealing with (rude, arrogant and unprofessional) criticism in public as is the case in this thread.

Of course it will be different if you contacted a larger SW company because they will often have several layers of insulation between you and the developers. So they will employ reps who are trained to deal with customers.

[tautech]

I think you have to make allowances when dealing with people who stand out from the crowd. If DEX really is a one man band then it is an amazing feat and must have taken loads of skill, determination and patience over many years. People like this deserve lots of respect even if they do have a short fuse when dealing with (rude, arrogant and unprofessional) criticism in public as is the case in this thread.

Of course it will be different if you contacted a larger SW company because they will often have several layers of insulation between you and the developers. So they will employ reps who are trained to deal with customers.

NO excuse for the inability to put a functional link to his own website. 

[G0HZU]

[NO excuse for the inability to put a functional link to his own website. 

Maybe he was upset at the time or maybe he had been working long hours that day or maybe both? Show some respect...

[tautech]

There's no need to defend him....like I said "attention to detail".

So I like others presumably had to sort out his wrong link to get to his site.
As I'm about to setup a Win 8 machine, I will definately try DEX as it now seems some answers are forthcoming re it's usability. 

[Mechatrommer]

If DEX really is a one man band then it is an amazing feat and must have taken loads of skill.

no imho, he is lacking "practical ee/eda/pcb application" skill, so he doenst have load of skill though. most of his skills are in the photoshop/vector drawing/3d application as proven by how his trax prevails to us.

[elgonzo]

It is hilarious how some obsess over a forum post because it contains a messed up link. How they analyze and explore the deeper meaning of said messed up link, and what conclusions can be drawn from it. It's a goddamn forum post, not a friggin' press release. Spelling/typing mistakes are forgiven here. Google is convenient. Let it go...

[c4757p]

He has posted a surprising number of broken links for someone who's supposedly a programmer...

Then again, I do occasionally get the impression that free_electron types with his feet 

[elgonzo]

He has posted a surprising number of broken links for someone who's supposedly a programmer...

Not surprising at all. The forum does not have Intellisense...   

[aroby]

I'm not sure I understand the grid behavior.  There are a number of grid settings that you can change, but I haven't played around with them to see what they do.

I don't think the alignment is a particular problem (since that would seem to be a function of the origin and the dimensions), but it would make intuitive sense to have parts aligned on the grid. 

The grid snapping is odd.  Snapping works, but to a multiple of the grid units and not to the nearest grid line, which is what I think a user would expect.  There also seems to be a set of defaults, that are in inches, which when you display in mm causes grid display issues.  My guess is that playing with the default settings for All Schematics to configure the software for your preferred unit system is a possible solution.

Send in a bug report and see if it gets addressed.

[free_electron]

right. i've decided that locking horns is not the way to get this thing on the rails.

like i wrote multiple times : this program intrigues me because it is quite impressive what a one man outfit can pull off. it has potential but has a bunch of 'rough edges' that need spit and polish.

So i reached out to Iliya and started filing bug reports. He is quick fixing things. That is for sure 
i am actually recording ( screencapture) my 'sessions' and will share the rcordings directly with him. It doesn't do any good throwing those in the open as it is detrimental and attracts too many 'bad vibes'. better to have these things fixed quickly

I haven't given up hope yet ...

[Wytnucls]

I just installed it and have a couple of issues. The most serious is that nothing seems to line up with the grid:
The other issue is minor. Zooming with the mouse wheel is really slow, and I can't find a way to make it faster.

Surely what matters is the footprint and that seems to line up fine.
No issue with the mouse here (Logitech Performance MX).

[Wytnucls]

If you set your grid to Mil/Thou or Inches, pins seem to line up with the grid:

[DEX]

If you set your grid to Mil/Thou or Inches, pins seem to line up with the grid:

Schematic grid for electrical items is 0.05"
electrical items are wires, symbol terminals, terminal junctions, inter-wire connectors, symbol borders.

This is to keep wiring sane.
0.05" is a reasonable visual grid.
Making a gridless wiring scheme was ruled out. Makes for messy layouts of teminals on symbol borders.

The graphics snap grid is independent.
Changing units does not change the grids. See attached on how to change grid.
Units tell DEX how to convert internal values to display to you, the user.

The PCB does not have a fixed grid.

[tautech]

Welcome to the forum DEX, we look forward to your input

[ozwolf]

Now we're talking sensibly.  I'm looking forward to some real progress now.

Contrary to most people, I've started reading the AutoTRAX manual prior to doing any real work.

I've worked at companies with people writing the manuals for scientific equipment and most users have no idea the amount of effort that goes into writing a manual.

With constructive feedback, both users and developers benefit.

Ozwolf

[nctnico]

If you set your grid to Mil/Thou or Inches, pins seem to line up with the grid:

Schematic grid for electrical items is 0.05"
electrical items are wires, symbol terminals, terminal junctions, inter-wire connectors, symbol borders.

This is to keep wiring sane.
0.05" is a reasonable visual grid.
Making a gridless wiring scheme was ruled out. Makes for messy layouts of teminals on symbol borders.

Maybe its best not to change the grid on the schematics entry. Some people insist on using a metric grid for schematics but usually they don't produce any reason other than 'because we live in a country which uses the metric system'. In my experience software which uses non-metric units is best left at using non-metric units.

For the PCB layout being stuck to an imperial grid is a no-go ofcourse since most part footprints are specified in millimeters nowadays.

[nctnico]

I did switch everything to metric. Imperial units are... dumb. But that's another debate. Surely switching shouldn't mess up the grid and alignment of pins. I'll try switching back to imperial for the schematic.

Like I said: proper conversion to metric units is often overlooked by imperialists 
Orcad Capture for example has the nasty habit of cutting the grid short when setting the paper size to A4. If you bump a selection to the edge of the paper the selection gets off grid. If you 'drop' the selection the components don't line up with the grid.

[free_electron]

Schematic grid units are irrelevant.
All you need is a fixed grid and all schematic symbols are drawn on that grid. the grid is decoupled from sheet size.

it doesn't matter if the grid is 5 mm or 5.08mm or factrons there of. as long as there is a grid and everything snaps to the grid we are good. the last thing you want is a gridless mess where nothing aligns properly.

PCB is a different matter.

[tautech]

Schematic grid units are irrelevant.
All you need is a fixed grid and all schematic symbols are drawn on that grid. the grid is decoupled from sheet size.

it doesn't matter if the grid is 5 mm or 5.08mm or factrons there of. as long as there is a grid and everything snaps to the grid we are good. the last thing you want is a gridless mess where nothing aligns properly.

PCB is a different matter.

+1

[Mechatrommer]

most users have no idea the amount of effort that goes into writing a manual.

we got the idea fine. we know writing manual can take effort just as much as writing the software itself. but anybody who dont give the effort to write the manual (or making video) just dont get the idea what a manual can contribute for.... a successfull product. leaving out manual is just like leaving out marketing. you write a software and you dont market it (dont make proper manual), what good it is for? it will only good to yourself... and probably a "theft" know what i mean? ps: welcome dex! we are looking forward for proper support in eevblog.