DEX eval by free_electron

[IconicPCB]

Holy  Batman.

I can see the beginnings of another 

[PeterZ]

It works much better after the latest update:

I have increased the dot size from 1.5 to 3 to make it better visible (Settings->Schematics->WireJunctionScale). It doesn't add the junction point dot if it's placed directly at the component terminal, but that's no big deal, many other schematic editors work in the same way.
So, now when we can comfortably draw the schematics i wanted to see how does the copy/paste function work.  I run into a weird behavior, basically i added one section (NPN+R+LED) and copy/pasted the parts. I did that by copying 1 resistor, then copying a block of two, making a total of four and then copying a block of four to get 8. Repeated for the Qs and Leds.



Not sure what happened, but:
- R1 somehow transformed into a non copyable multi part,
- R7 got a LED footprint (?!)
- DS5 (LED) got a footprint of a SIP8 connector which i deleted previously to replace it with DIP10 (8x led + GND + power)
- actually, the original DS5 footprint lost it's pads (stolen by SIP8 perhaps)
- DS6 (LED) also magically lost it's pads


 
Btw. although you'd create your own footprints anyway, the stock BJT footprint has pads with the following parameters: diameter: 0.635mm, drill size 0,3175mm.
 

[timb]

Holy  Batman.

I can see the beginnings of another 

He's not wrong.


Sent from my Tablet

[Warhawk]

@Iliya

Could you please have a look at my points ? I've just installed the demo version and have some serious concerns.

How do I change all color settings (background, grid, parts graphic) ? I like my desktop as black as my morning coffee. I could make a paper black, but then the grid was just ridiculously white.
See my eagle setup (eagle.png). I use a very similar setup in DipTrace and Zuken (at work) and I am used to it.

  that you chose a line based grid. All electronics engineers love a squared paper but nearly all ECADs use dots for the grid. I simply don't know why. The best grid I've ever saw is in CR5000 (zuken.png). It is dynamic and simply superb.

The GUI is brutal and over-engineered. If I were you I would get rid of all unnecessary crap and icons. Who the hell needs 5 different icons for LEDs ? Front panel designer with Jedi Industries ?! C'mon ! The very first look on the GUI directly moves your software to Arduino community. I use about 3-4 icons for a schematic designer in CR5000. It is THAT straightforward....

I imported my project from eagle. PCB misses several routed nets and routing is super slow. I mean the whole application is not extra responsive but the PCB module is not usable at all. It is like 1 FPS !!! Something is wrong here. I have core i5, SSD and 8 GB RAM.

The automatic track wiring is just a crap. It drove me mad right after I tried it so I am definitely with PeterZ.
You are obviously a very skilled programmer. It is shame that you did not get in touch with a group of skilled PCB designers because you would take a CircuitStudio's place on the market and get rich as well :-)

Anyway, fingers crossed for you but I'll rather keep my fifty bucks for a new DEX in couple years.

[Iliya]

Holy  Batman.

I can see the beginnings of another 

Sorry, but no, there is no fighting match coming. Let's just work together to make AutoTRAX better. Please think positive, the world's much better that way! 

[pickle9000]

And on that note.

Back to the measure panel

-Tools-Misc-Measure

Am I correct in assuming there is no way to get any of the values onto the clipboard?

Would you consider a properties box for the tool so values could be placed on the clipboard.

If you do, consider also adding imperial, metric, multiplying the value by 2 and 0.5. That will cover most calculations to do with measurement and save time.

My issue is that I often need to upgrade old equipment. Fitting front panels and pcbs into existing equipment. Being able have an image (thanks for helping with that) and take measurements in software is a real time saver. 

[Iliya]

And on that note.

Back to the measure panel

-Tools-Misc-Measure

Am I correct in assuming there is no way to get any of the values onto the clipboard?

Would you consider a properties box for the tool so values could be placed on the clipboard.

If you do, consider also adding imperial, metric, multiplying the value by 2 and 0.5. That will cover most calculations to do with measurement and save time.

My issue is that I often need to upgrade old equipment. Fitting front panels and pcbs into existing equipment. Being able have an image (thanks for helping with that) and take measurements in software is a real time saver.

If after the second click you want a dialog box to appear with the measurements and then allow copy to the clipboard?

[Mechatrommer]

It works much better after the latest update:

10 thumbs up to iliya for bringing back dex to what it supposed to do.

[Iliya]

It works much better after the latest update:

10 thumbs up to iliya for bringing back dex to what it supposed to do.

It's also thanks to you. That's what forums are for 

Together we have made DEX one step closer...

Thanks again
Iliya

[Iliya]

And on that note.

Back to the measure panel

-Tools-Misc-Measure

Am I correct in assuming there is no way to get any of the values onto the clipboard?

Would you consider a properties box for the tool so values could be placed on the clipboard.

If you do, consider also adding imperial, metric, multiplying the value by 2 and 0.5. That will cover most calculations to do with measurement and save time.

My issue is that I often need to upgrade old equipment. Fitting front panels and pcbs into existing equipment. Being able have an image (thanks for helping with that) and take measurements in software is a real time saver.

If after the second click you want a dialog box to appear with the measurements and then allow copy to the clipboard?

I have implemented the modeless dialog below (next version - tomorrow AM)

Too late to uploads, it's 9:20pm and

[pickle9000]

And on that note.

Back to the measure panel

-Tools-Misc-Measure

Am I correct in assuming there is no way to get any of the values onto the clipboard?

Would you consider a properties box for the tool so values could be placed on the clipboard.

If you do, consider also adding imperial, metric, multiplying the value by 2 and 0.5. That will cover most calculations to do with measurement and save time.

My issue is that I often need to upgrade old equipment. Fitting front panels and pcbs into existing equipment. Being able have an image (thanks for helping with that) and take measurements in software is a real time saver.

If after the second click you want a dialog box to appear with the measurements and then allow copy to the clipboard?

I have implemented the modeless dialog below (next version - tomorrow AM)

Too late to uploads, it's 9:20pm and

Now can I convince you to add the ability to half and double the measured value? That would allow center finding, radius. It could be in the form of a button. An extra text box with three buttons under Double, half, area. It would essentially be a one button calculator. 

Also thanks for what you've done so far. I appreciate that your listening. As you can probably guess I do use these simple calculations very often. 

Please excuse my ultra crappy image.

[Excavatoree]

I hope this question is acceptable.  If not, I apologize.  I've tried to read the help files, and look at examples, but I can't find the answer.

For some reason, and I don't know what I am doing that causes it, the "cross" positioning point,  the component outline, and the solder pads on the footprint are often misplaced for one or more components.   I figured out how to use the proper select mode and drag them together, but I can never get them aligned as they were.  Is there something obvious I'm doing wrong?  Shouldn't they stay together unless I do something to move them?

[pickle9000]

It sounds like the snap-to is set wrong.

Are you building a component or placing one on the pcb? Screen shots are always helpful.

[Iliya]

And on that note.

Back to the measure panel

-Tools-Misc-Measure

Am I correct in assuming there is no way to get any of the values onto the clipboard?

Would you consider a properties box for the tool so values could be placed on the clipboard.

If you do, consider also adding imperial, metric, multiplying the value by 2 and 0.5. That will cover most calculations to do with measurement and save time.

My issue is that I often need to upgrade old equipment. Fitting front panels and pcbs into existing equipment. Being able have an image (thanks for helping with that) and take measurements in software is a real time saver.

If after the second click you want a dialog box to appear with the measurements and then allow copy to the clipboard?

I have implemented the modeless dialog below (next version - tomorrow AM)

Too late to uploads, it's 9:20pm and

Now can I convince you to add the ability to half and double the measured value? That would allow center finding, radius. It could be in the form of a button. An extra text box with three buttons under Double, half, area. It would essentially be a one button calculator. 

Also thanks for what you've done so far. I appreciate that your listening. As you can probably guess I do use these simple calculations very often. 

Please excuse my ultra crappy image.

Done.

Regards
Iliya

[pickle9000]

And on that note.

Back to the measure panel

-Tools-Misc-Measure

Am I correct in assuming there is no way to get any of the values onto the clipboard?

Would you consider a properties box for the tool so values could be placed on the clipboard.

If you do, consider also adding imperial, metric, multiplying the value by 2 and 0.5. That will cover most calculations to do with measurement and save time.

My issue is that I often need to upgrade old equipment. Fitting front panels and pcbs into existing equipment. Being able have an image (thanks for helping with that) and take measurements in software is a real time saver.

If after the second click you want a dialog box to appear with the measurements and then allow copy to the clipboard?

I have implemented the modeless dialog below (next version - tomorrow AM)

Too late to uploads, it's 9:20pm and

Now can I convince you to add the ability to half and double the measured value? That would allow center finding, radius. It could be in the form of a button. An extra text box with three buttons under Double, half, area. It would essentially be a one button calculator. 

Also thanks for what you've done so far. I appreciate that your listening. As you can probably guess I do use these simple calculations very often. 

Please excuse my ultra crappy image.

Done.

Regards
Iliya

And I have already tried it.

The ctrl and shift functions are mixed up shift doubles and ctrl halfs. Works perfectly though, backwards every time.

Awesome, super simple to use, I am using it now.

Thank you sir, that is the power of a one man show. No committee needed.

[Excavatoree]

I'll add some screen shots.   I've placed 5 resistors and other components in the schematic.   I go to PCB, and see that R3 doesn't have the "+" with the rest of the footprint.    This time, only the "+" got moved.  Other times, all three elements are displaced from each other.   I have no idea what I did to cause this, and no idea why only R3 was affected.

1.  All resistor are correct, except R3.
2.  "+" is far away.

Ignore my previous remarks about the grid snap, I'm new to this sort of thing and got crossed up, somehow.  I was able to select "sub pick" and fix the problem, but I have no idea why R3 ended up like that.  Previously, it was three resistors.  I simply deleted them and re-placed them.

[pickle9000]

I'll add some screen shots.   I've placed 5 resistors and other components in the schematic.   I go to PCB, and see that R3 doesn't have the "+" with the rest of the footprint.    This time, only the "+" got moved.  Other times, all three elements are displaced from each other.   I have no idea what I did to cause this, and no idea why only R3 was affected.

1.  All resistor are correct, except R3.
2.  "+" is far away.

Ignore my previous remarks about the grid snap, I'm new to this sort of thing and got crossed up, somehow.  I was able to select "sub pick" and fix the problem, but I have no idea why R3 ended up like that.  Previously, it was three resistors.  I simply deleted them and re-placed them.

It does look like you are having a problem with your snap points. Perhaps they where changed while you where placing the components. The "buttons" are located to the immediate right of the status box. You can choose from 1 2 4 5 10 (snaps per division). The higher the number the more delicate the mouse movement. The default on mine was 2 and I change it to 10 to make a fine adjustment then it goes back to 2.

To get everything to line up try setting the snap points to 2 the move each component  a bit and you should be able to get it to go where you want. If you need to do a large group select the group (box it) then right click and choose one of the alignment or distribute options.

I'm sure there are other ways as well.

[Excavatoree]

I'll add some screen shots.   I've placed 5 resistors and other components in the schematic.   I go to PCB, and see that R3 doesn't have the "+" with the rest of the footprint.    This time, only the "+" got moved.  Other times, all three elements are displaced from each other.   I have no idea what I did to cause this, and no idea why only R3 was affected.

1.  All resistor are correct, except R3.
2.  "+" is far away.

Ignore my previous remarks about the grid snap, I'm new to this sort of thing and got crossed up, somehow.  I was able to select "sub pick" and fix the problem, but I have no idea why R3 ended up like that.  Previously, it was three resistors.  I simply deleted them and re-placed them.

It does look like you are having a problem with your snap points. Perhaps they where changed while you where placing the components. The "buttons" are located to the immediate right of the status box. You can choose from 1 2 4 5 10 (snaps per division). The higher the number the more delicate the mouse movement. The default on mine was 2 and I change it to 10 to make a fine adjustment then it goes back to 2.

To get everything to line up try setting the snap points to 2 the move each component  a bit and you should be able to get it to go where you want. If you need to do a large group select the group (box it) then right click and choose one of the alignment or distribute options.

I'm sure there are other ways as well.

Yes, I do have problems with snap points.  I think it's just my inexperience.    my problem is the footprint components, outline, solder pads, and "cross" get separated.  If I click on any of them, all will move together, but it thinks the R3 has a HUGE footprint because it's cross is way out in right field.

This is just one example.  Previously, all three were spread that much.   I just don't know what I did differently for the troubled footprints. I placed them the same as I did the non problem components, yet sometimes they "blow up."   I didn't even notice the "cross" being off until I tried to use a box to select all the components and move them in relation to the transistor.  It wouldn't pick R3.   I drug it back, but I have no idea how these got messed up in the first place.

[pickle9000]

There are a couple concepts that may help.

First, you are moving a group of objects typically but the software allows you to move portions of that group as well. For example, you can relocate the component identifier (R1 for example). In Dex I found that I like to slide the mouse over wait for the pointer to change to move indicator then drag. If you move the component the identifier will move with it. If you point at the identifier you move that instead. It's fairly common to move the identifier so Dex allows that without doing anything extra.

To move other portions of the group you use the Sub Pick pointer. That is a toggle so remember to switch it back to pick when done or things will get messy. You can find that by right clicking in the work area or choosing it from the edit menu.

When moving things like the identifier the snap-to is disabled (or set to 10) to allow fine placement. 

Pay attention to the pointer type that will let you know what can be moved.

[nctnico]

Maybe that is why so many PCB layout tools have select modes where you can choose what you pick up. It makes moving groups of <whatever> much easier.

[Warhawk]

It works much better after the latest update:

I have increased the dot size from 1.5 to 3 to make it better visible (Settings->Schematics->WireJunctionScale). It doesn't add the junction point dot if it's placed directly at the component terminal, but that's no big deal, many other schematic editors work in the same way.
So, now when we can comfortably draw the schematics i wanted to see how does the copy/paste function work.  I run into a weird behavior, basically i added one section (NPN+R+LED) and copy/pasted the parts. I did that by copying 1 resistor, then copying a block of two, making a total of four and then copying a block of four to get 8. Repeated for the Qs and Leds.



Not sure what happened, but:
- R1 somehow transformed into a non copyable multi part,
- R7 got a LED footprint (?!)
- DS5 (LED) got a footprint of a SIP8 connector which i deleted previously to replace it with DIP10 (8x led + GND + power)
- actually, the original DS5 footprint lost it's pads (stolen by SIP8 perhaps)
- DS6 (LED) also magically lost it's pads


 
Btw. although you'd create your own footprints anyway, the stock BJT footprint has pads with the following parameters: diameter: 0.635mm, drill size 0,3175mm.

Is it just me or you and your comments are being ignored as well as mine ?

[Excavatoree]

There are a couple concepts that may help.

First, you are moving a group of objects typically but the software allows you to move portions of that group as well. For example, you can relocate the component identifier (R1 for example). In Dex I found that I like to slide the mouse over wait for the pointer to change to move indicator then drag. If you move the component the identifier will move with it. If you point at the identifier you move that instead. It's fairly common to move the identifier so Dex allows that without doing anything extra.

To move other portions of the group you use the Sub Pick pointer. That is a toggle so remember to switch it back to pick when done or things will get messy. You can find that by right clicking in the work area or choosing it from the edit menu.

When moving things like the identifier the snap-to is disabled (or set to 10) to allow fine placement. 

Pay attention to the pointer type that will let you know what can be moved.

My big problem is, they get separated for no apparent reason.  I placed the resistors, and one or more of them are messed up.   I finally figured out how to fix the problems sub-picking each part and dragging them together, but I don't understand why some components got messed up in the first place.

[pickle9000]

Grouping only works with like parts, so if you group resistors and leds only the indicated items will be grouped. You could add a schematic section to the parts library. I haven't tried that but I thing that it would group then. To do that select the section, right click and pick add as part. Pretty handy feature actually.

As for Iliya I'm very impressed with the speed that he gets back. Having access like this to a programmer is pretty nice.

Maybe that is why so many PCB layout tools have select modes where you can choose what you pick up. It makes moving groups of <whatever> much easier.

Tradeoffs with these things is difficult. For me the dex menu system and tool tips mean no manual required. I found it exceptionally easy to do a board right off the bat. Most of what I do are simple, so a simple program makes life easier.

I haven't had any problems with lockups or unexpected behavior. Any issues I have seen relate to a "programmers choice". That is the way selections work and such. Grouping for example, groups only like parts. Not a big deal just the way it is.

Feature I'd like to see.

One thing that would be very helpful (to me) is an "adjustable" wallpaper for the work areas. A simple image of and existing board or component, diagram that could be placed behind your word and used for reference while doing the work. Seems very simple but would be very useful. Could be used when duplicating an old schematic off a paper scan, when making a pcb that lives behind a faceplate or is in fact a faceplate. Having a one button for wallpaper loading and adjustment would be very slick.   

[PeterZ]

Is it just me or you and your comments are being ignored as well as mine ?

Not sure if it was my post that inspired Iliya to change the way the wiring on the schematic works, but i see that as a kind of response. It really works nice now. I also should mention, bashing DEX is also not my intention at all. As many others have written, i think it has a huge potential, but also a few very serious problems, which i'm trying to show on these little clips or reports.
That leads me to the next test i did: mentioned already copy/paste problem.
I wanted to create s few basic components from scratch, started with a simple 0805 resistor. I believe i succeeded. Then i wanted to create a schematic with a large number of these parts to see if there are any potential problems and maybe replicate the behavior i noticed in the led driver example.

As you can see, everything worked fine:


That got me to think, hey, maybe there is something wrong with the stock parts library, maybe they were imported, somehow got corrupted during the many updates, worth testing.
I recreated the schematic with the stock resistors and the problem with pasting the buffer showed up:

(<-i think this clip was too large, "img" does not work). I even repeated the last copy/paste action to see if it works the same. Yep, it did.

To verify that further i created another component: an electrolytic cap and started to multiply them again:


Well, the problem still occurs. At some point, when i hit the ctrl+V the buffer is immediately pasted ontop the originally copied section, makes a total mess over there and only a few wires, sometimes pins are floating and can be moved with the mouse cursor. This also creates a previously seen problem with copying a part ("Cannot copy muli-part symbols").
Hope that test will help Iliya to fix the problem and push the Dex one step further.

[pickle9000]

There is no question Iliya listens to his customers.